Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Peru/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Wikipedia:WikiProject Peru. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Clean-up

In an effort to help make things more easily understood, I'm cleaning up the Peru talkpage. I am not editing comments, but I am moving them around in format to clean them up a bit. I have removed a few sections that are out-of-date and useless, but if you feel they should be brought back, please copy past the section of interest, but do not revert this clean-up. If you have any comments or concerns, please contact me on my talkpage. Thanks! Pvt Mahoney 00:16, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Bmahoney, I didn't know my request for comments on the History of the Ecuadorian-Peruvian territorial dispute article was "out-of-date" or "useless". On the contrary, you deleted an entire section about an article which needed to be locked and is in urgent need of attention, and should be there so other Peruvian wikipedians interested in history who come to this Wikiproject know about the issue. Could you please put the section back again? Thanks. Andres C. 01:15, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

List of political parties in Peru

There is an edit dispute on this page. Possibly some people of the Wikiproject may be interested in putting in their two cents.--Jersey Devil 11:22, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Template:PeruPresidents

I just created it right now. I copied the list strait out of the "List of Peruvian Presidents". Please check for any careless mistakes I may have made in order or spelling. Also, why isn't Haya de la Torre in the List of Presidents? It's true that he never served because of rapid military coups but he was elected twice and other short "interm" Presidents are mentioned in the list. Shouldn't he be there? (I just left him out because he wasn't on the list).--Jersey Devil 20:41, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I've made some corrections to the name on this template. Still it seems to me there are some names which should be removed from the list. I'll check my sources before making further changes. As for Haya de la Torre he was elected only once, in 1962, but since he didn't get 50% of the valid votes, the constitution mandated that Congress should pick the new president. Before this, the armed forces staged a coup de état, so Haya de la Torre was never president of Perú. --Victor12 23:42, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Well then, the Víctor Raúl Haya de la Torre article is deeply flawed then.--Jersey Devil 23:53, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually it clearly says However, he continued to live mostly abroad until 1962. He ran for president again, obtaining victory by a slim margin but not enough to be constitutionally elected. What's wrong is the intro. I'll edit it up. As for the article as a whole it clearly needs major improvements. --Victor12 00:54, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Haya de la Torre claimed to be the real winner of the 1931 elecctions, but the Electoral Authorities named Sanchez Cerro the winner. He did not achieve the presidency, but the Partido Aprista Peruano named him the Moral President of Peru. Not enough to be Constitutional. Regarding the Election of 1962, he was never sworn into office, since the military ousted Prado. Prado was still the Constitutional President of the Republic at that time. Thus, the was never appointed to the office, and the highest government post that he ever held was the Presidency of the Constitutional Assambly of 1979.

Also, I have added Fujimori to the list. I wonder why he was left outside the list. Messhermit 02:50, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

We may have to start a debate and fix the list, since there were several Interim Presidents. Most of the time their authority was not beyond the capital city. I believe that we should depurate the list a little bit.Messhermit 02:59, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I would guess some "antifujimorista" just decided upon his or her self that he shouldn't be on the list (damn POV hawks) and I just didn't notice. Anyway, yeah, I just put those interim Presidents in because they were on the list. There should be some kind of discussion. Personally though I think would still keep them if they did in fact hold the Presidency for even a small period of time regardless of the time/influence. The important thing was just to get this long over due template done.--Jersey Devil 17:04, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

hello everyone, I'm a Peruvian graduate Anthropology student on Andean studies in New York, I feel the history section is really a shame, Peru has one of the longest histories in the world, and to have the history section start with only the Inkas or the Spanish conquest ignores a rich history 3000 years old. I added to the history section, and it was deleted, the chavin, moche, chimu, huari and most importantly caral supe civilization was deleted, please explain how this should not be part of the history of Peru, if not more important than the colonial and post colonial history. peru has a mixture of cultures, not just spanish, it has an indigenous culture that needs to be recognized.

Maybe if you got out from behind that ip address and signed up, you'd be more believeable... And on the other hand, this page doesn't have everything about peru there is... in fact, it links to sub-pages that have more indepth articles about specific sections... that is why not everything is told about on just this page alone.--User:Bmahoney

IN RESPONSE TO JERSEY DEVIL - - - AND TO EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PERU WIKIPROJECT: I'd be happy to become a member of this wikiproject, I'll be working on ancient peruvian history (before any spanish influence) and modern peruvian culture, especially Quechua/Andean, these areas need A LOT of work, and I think the group could use the help of a graduate student in andean anthropology and dissapearing cultures, my member name is Artur Rubinstein, and I'm looking forward to working with everyone here, see ya soon. ARTUR RUBINSTEIN

We are idiots

I just realize that we went all this time with out adding soccer/football related articles to the Wikiproject! :)--Jersey Devil 19:22, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

lol, but is that important? I think History is far more interesting that sports (at least for this moment) Messhermit 20:18, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Certainly, but it is neccessary to at least have the articles listed on the WP. I'll put them up later. Tired right now...--Jersey Devil 22:52, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Rondas Campesinas

I'm not even a member of this project, but I really dislike the state of Ronda Campesina. The vast majority of the rondas were formed during the early 70s and had nothing to do with the MRTA/SL internal troubles. The article doesn't reflect that. As Orin Starn mentioned in his book about the Rondas, during the 80s there were several hundred thousand ronderos in Peru, and only maybe ten thousand senderistas. Yet American socialogists and political scientists have focused on Sendero as the social movement in Peru. The rondas were just as interesting, too, as they formed extra-judicial courts, clashed with the authorities at some times and worked with them at others, greatly reduced the number of thieves in the country side, and at times engaged in very questionable behavior. --Descendall 14:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe what you are saying is true, but the most prominent role that they achieve was during the 80's and 90's: Supported by the government, they fought against Sendero and MRTA. Also, we must remember that as the article says, there were some parts of the country were the government was not present. Thus, it is reasonable to believe that they executed justice by their own hand against Sendero And MRTA. Messhermit 18:45, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

The anti-Sendero groups that called themselves Rondas had nothing to do with the bulk of the Ronderos. The Ronda Movement was largest in Cajamarca, which had little Sendero activity. It had been active there since the early 1970s, well before the Shining Path came onto the scene. The article should probably be as long as Shining Path, with maybe one sentence saying something to the effect of "peasants who organized against the Shining Path were also known as Rondas Campesinas."--Descendall 19:49, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, since it will try to diminish the role and impact that those groups have in the war against Sendero and MRTA. Also, regarding the name, most of the country recognise the term Rondas Campesinas with that meaning. Here is a link [1] that more or less integrates them to the rule of law, while this link [2] explains the fundamental role that they had in the defeat of Sendero. Messhermit 22:45, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that the anti-subversive groups basically stole the name of the much larger Rondero movement. The Congress of Rondas had absolutely nothing to do with fighting Sendero. Ronderismo was a totally organic movement by villiagers that focused primarily on cattle theives and drunks. Some of them were co-opted by the Maoists in FOCEP and Patria Roja, but the vast majority of them were politically neutral. The anti-sendero rondas weren't organic like this -- they were basically groups of peasants who had old shotguns thrown at them by the government in a deperate attempt to crush Sendero. Now, I totally agree that these groups had a huge impact on the war (Sendero died because the "masses," to use their old Marxist terminology, turned against them), but I think that belongs in the atricle on Shining Path. The Rondas were a huge social movement during the 70s, much bigger than Sendero ever was during the 80s, and I think they deserve an article just as long if not longer than the one that Sendero currently has. My problem is that the only sources I know on the rondas are one book (Nightwatch by Orin Starn, which I have read) and one fictionalized movie (Rondas, which I have a bootleg copy of on DVD but I am unable to play because it's coded for a South American DVD player and I'm currently in North America). I don't think that we disagree on much, just where the empahsis should be -- the larger ronda movement that stopped banditry in Northern Peru, or the smaller ronda movement that at least helped weaken Sendero in Central Peru.--Descendall 22:54, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Then maybe we should divide the article into North and South, don't you think? Maybe with that we can more or less present both meanings of the word. Messhermit 03:09, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Problem on Wikipedia

I am currently experiencing a problem with another editor on Wikipedia. I know that this doesn't directly involve Peru-related articles but it prevents me from focusing much of my time on these articles. You are welcome to comment on my talk page about this (and naturally I do not expect you to automatically take my side nor do I want you to do so).--Jersey Devil 23:09, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Ecuadorian issue

Unfortunately for the Peruvian proyects, we are in the constant treath of POV warriors. This time, a irresponsable and clearly Ecuadorian POV pusher has now declare himself the owner of the article History of the Ecuadorian-Peruvian territorial dispute. So far I have manage to keep it on hold, but this person keeps reverting every single correction (wich involve removing his BIASED editions).

I'm asking for a neutral and independent opinion from other wikipedist, since the behavior of this Ecuadorian POV pusher is going to far. He was responsable for a Flame war a couple of months ago against my person. Messhermit 22:45, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I am sorry if this sounds rude at all, but why, on earth, would you post this here? This is an entirely unintelligent choice of action. I understand that there is a dispute, and I am willing to help talk with you and the other person, but I don't believe it is wise to attempt to create a war, and spread it all the way to the Project. Please keep unrelated discussions and disputes out of here.Pvt Mahoney 00:28, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I have to also some what agree with the above post. I think you should de-POV your statements here. Just say "there is a problem in xxxx article and I would like your opinion". That would be much better. Also, it seems that Katefan has protected the status as is.--Jersey Devil 00:46, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I posted this here because recently there is a constant war in several pages that has to do with peruvian history. Also, I posted here because it should be part of the peruvian wikiproject to preserve the integrity and the neutrality of those articles that involves the history of our country.
My intentions are not creating a war. As a matter of fact, my only reasons to do this is because we need to keep an eye on those articles that are heavely modified by other users who has little or no knowledge of peruvian history.
The article is protected, yes. I already complain about this.

Having explaining this, I believe it's appropiate to pay a little more of attention to the articles that involves peruvian history. Messhermit 02:29, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

All I ask is that if there is every any future conflict just say "there is a dispute on this page that you may be interested in" instead of POVing your statement. It makes it sound like you want us to go in there and simply stop other reverts and assume that you are in the right. I can not simply do that even though for the most part I do like your contributions to Wikipedia. You should also think about it from a practical matter. What if you were having a dispute with another poster on content and you came here and said "this POV poster is vandalizing this page". Well then if that poster sees that and others see that they will think that the other poster is in the right as it would seem you are asking us to go there with a predetermined idea about what to do.--Jersey Devil 02:59, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Then I shall correct myself and avoid this kind of behavior with the Peruvian community here in Wikipedia. We must remember, nevertheless, that we should keep an eye in several history-related articles; in order to avoid this kind of misunderstands. Messhermit 04:44, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Hello Jersey Devil and everybody else belonging to Wikiproject:Peru. I am the wikipedian from Guayaquil. I think it's a good idea if any history buffs in this community came by to see what's been going on in the History of the Ecuadorian-Peruvian territorial dispute article, and in its talk page. I have posted a couple of suggestions to break the deadlock in this article, and I think your input & suggestions would be important. Well, that's it. Cheers. Andres C. 00:08, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Ramón Castilla

Just thought I let you guys know I expanded Ramón Castilla's article by translating information largely from the Spanish version. It might need an extra revision so as to correct any typos, dates or wrong events in their chronological order which any of you might know better. Any suggestions are welcomed :) --Dynamax 02:12, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Nice work, needs sources though.--Jersey Devil 16:50, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Peruvian national election, 2006

I've added a new "Campaign" section on the Peruvian national election, 2006 page, it's likely to be the most subjective section, so I would like people to participate. Feel free to add, change or delete whatever you want, but keep it relevant and NPOV, of course. Also, if there is some kind of accusation against a candidate, make sure to make it clear that it's just an accusation. Thanks all. --Gabbec 07:43, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Peru Portal Pics

Is anyone else having trouble viewing the images for the "selected article", "selected biography", and "The Peru Portal" boxes?--Jersey Devil 14:36, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

They seem to work as of the 4th. Pvt Mahoney 19:52, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team cooperation

Hello. I'm a member of the Version 1.0 Editorial Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing articles using these criteria, and we are are asking for your help. As you are most aware of the issues surrounding your focus area, we are wondering if you could provide us with a list of the articles that fall within the scope of your WikiProject, and that are either featured, A-class, B-class, or Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Do you have any recommendations? If you do, please post your suggestions at the listing of all active Places WikiProjects, and if you have any questions, ask me in the Work Via WikiProjects talk page or directly in my talk page. Thanks a lot! Tito xd^{(?!? - help us)} 07:09, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Inconsistant GDP information

I'm not sure if anyone has noticed but the GDP per capita is listed as $6000 while the total GDP is lited as 168.9 Billion. If you do the math considering the recent national census the GDP per capita is actually $6424 based on that information. I am going to change this but if anyone has any reason to think that my assumption is infactual just contact me. Vivaperucarajo 19:27, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

INEI Census figures

I was just wondering if there is any way to acquire the 2005 INEI census figures. I've noticed that in most of the city, province, and region articles, there are figures that vary wildly from estimates to census figures from the 90s (I think), and it would be nice to have a concise number for each article...any thoughts?--User:Valentino

CPN Radio

I just made the initial entry at CPN Radio. Can't believe this didn't have an entry until now. You guys can add to it if you want.--Jersey Devil 03:28, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Andean Renaissance?

Isn't the title of Andean Renaissance suppose to be "Andean Rebirth" as Renacimiento Andino translates to that?--Jersey Devil 19:20, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I would say that the "Renaissance" is better. Messhermit 20:12, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

June and July Collaboration

As choosen by the last vote, this month's collaboration will be Andrés de Santa Cruz. You should also note that voting is open now for the July collaboration and will be closed and cleared by the end of this month...so make sure to get your votes in before the closing period. Good luck on the Santa Cruz article guys.--Jersey Devil 05:59, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Title translations

Jersey Devil and I were having a small discussion in the Radio Programas del Perú talk page about translating the names of companies like this to English and move the articles there. I tend not to like translating proper names, but there are good reasons behind it (I don't know if there is an official policy about this). In some cases, translations can be cumbersome and inadequate. Both of us would probably cringe if someone moved El Comercio to The Commerce or something like that, for instance, but there are cases where it's probably better to translate. Should we have some kinds of policy for Peru-related articles, or leave it to individual cases? Any thoughts? --Gabbec 20:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Peru Presidents Template

Please see this.--Jersey Devil 21:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

On the template for the Peruvian parties a user wants to add the Green Alternative Ecologist Party of Peru. Please see the discussion there on whether to keep that party there. Template talk:PeruParties.--Jersey Devil 21:32, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I was asked, and so I have tried to help

Hi. User:Jersey Devil asked me if I could help out on this portal, and so I have done some preliminary changes. Feel free to revert anything you don't like :). Briefly:

I have added a topics box
I have cleaned up the news section, and introduced an archive
I have made the portal look more balanced

Stuff to do:

Make articles on all the red links in the topics box (this is not as bad as it looks, as most of them already are covered on Peru itself, but have no articles of their own)
Add archives for the selected picture, article and biography (easy)
The selected picture needs an image credit
Choose some new articles for those sections, if possible, and no offence intended, try to find something better than an airport :)
Update the Did You Know section (what does "in the Selva you can enjoy hard excursions?" mean?)
Choose some background colours for the bit that covers the Arts | Biography | Geography etc. bit (if you want)
Something I have never got around to: make a montage of famous Peruvians as a background to the portal title (see Portal:Food) - totally optional
If you are still bored, you could look through and rate a few articles (I found a very natty image you could use as your logo in the Spanish Wikipedia, although your current one is also very cool):

File:Peruanismo.PNG ADDED:*Intro box needs map of country (and probably coat of arms) and, although a welcome message is acceptable, needs to briefly describe Peru (think of it like a lead section in an article). I hope you find these points helpful, and, as I say, they are only suggestions. --Estrellador* 10:59, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for responding. By any chance, do you get the same problem I do when viewing the portal that when you scroll down some of the content in the "main" box (the one at the very top) seems to have its text disappear? Anyway, one of the things I like about Portal:Latin America is the blue background color with the yellow border. I think our portal could use something like that with different colors to match the Peruvian national colors. Maybe a "Quote of the Week" box would be good to.--Jersey Devil 15:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I use Opera and don't have that problem. I can help out with the background thing; I just need to find a model. It depends on if you want a border on the outside, as well as the awkward fact that one of Peru's two colours is white, so it won't be very obvious. I have added a red line around the outside; the coding I used is taken from the Latin American one, and should be self-explanatory. --Estrellador* 16:27, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Concerning the background, the color of the background inside the boxes is actually not white but a "whitish" shade of red. Perhaps if we made that a little more darker to set it apart from the white background it would look better.--Jersey Devil 18:05, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

New member

HOW do I join the WikiProject Peru? --Walter Humala 02:02, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Just add your name to the list of participants right at the top of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Peru--Jersey Devil 02:30, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

As a matter of fact I just added you on the participant list. Welcome to the project, you are our 19th member.--Jersey Devil 02:34, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Presidents of Peru

I have a question that it might be important and interesting for all of the members of this wikiproyect: Should we count the Presidents of the Republic taking San Martín as the 1st one (even if he took the title of "Liberator") or La Mar, who was the 1st one to be elected? Messhermit 02:48, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it's ok to count San Martin as th efirst "President", he was not a president though, but he was actually a governor of Perú, he was the maximum authority on Perú those days, and that's what we have to count, governors. If not maybe we would have to delete from presidents list all dictators, who weren't really presidents.--Walter Humala 01:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC).

Not really, remember the case of Pinochet in Chile: he self-proclaimed itself President of Chile (even if he was never democratically elected or did he have any constitution to legitimize its regime). What I am thinking now is why don't we separate the Presidents from the "transitional ones"? Messhermit 01:31, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Walter, no I don't think we should call them "governors" because a governor is the head of a regional province or state not a country nor does "President" imply that one has to be democratically elected. Pinochet was the President of Chile, he was also a dictator, there is no contradiction in that. With regard to Messhermit, I would like to keep the order of "Presidents" intact. I recall seeing another "Presidents of XXXX" template with an asterisk to denote short interm Presidents. I think that could be a suitable solution, but removing them completely as if they never existed is the wrong way to go.--Jersey Devil 01:52, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I didn't mean that, My only purpose in reorganizing the table is to identify the type of Presidency that they had: take as an example Luna Pizarro. He did not rule more than 1 day, and he was powerless outside the capital. That is the reason of why I want to state that he was a "Provisional/Transitional/Temporal President". Messhermit 01:57, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh, on the table summary that would definately be appropriate.--Jersey Devil 01:58, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

And what about the other table, the one that is huge? I don't mean to exclude them, but the one that is used for the Chilean presidents is fairly small and organized. Messhermit 02:11, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

What other table? The colored one on List of Presidents of Peru? If that is what you are referring to then I'd say that they should be included, they have to be to maintain the order.--Jersey Devil 02:23, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

That one is ok, I mean the template that is usually found in each presidential article and that it has a link for each President. Messhermit 03:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, here is my idea:

Template:Presidents of Peru

I am also working on a template for "Interim" or "Provisional" Presidents. Any idea of how do we organize parallel governments? Messhermit 00:28, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Listen Messhermit, I like you but I strongly disagree with your position. Regardless of whether they were "provisional" or "interim" they were still Presidents and the order of Presidents must be maintained. A reasonable solution would be to do what was done in the Template:Paraguay Presidents and add an asterisk to show "acting, provisional, and interim" Presidents. Seriously, your template wouldn't even have Valentín Paniagua in it so to the average user who doesn't know anything about Peru they would just see a big one year gap between Fujimori and Toledo. I respectfully ask that as author of that template you add a speedy deletion tag on it.--Jersey Devil 02:41, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I've also asked fellow project members User:Gabbec, User:Dynamax, and User:Victor12 to post here for their opinions on this matter.--Jersey Devil 02:50, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I think you are being a little to extremist, Jersey Devil. Maybe I did not explain myself very well, and I will try to expose my case for the template that I created right now:

The fact is, this template is a copy of the one that is used for the Presidents of Chile, and strictly follows the persons that assumed that office (in the clear sense of "President"). As you can see, this is far more accurate in that sense. A more detailed list can be found
Now, you have protested for not having Paniagua in the list, but let me remind you that he assumed the office (and declared his government) as "National Reconsiliation and Unity". He also stated that he was going to be a "Provisional" President, even after the Constitution allowed him to complete Fujimori's Constitutional term.

What I propose then, is to create another one that states the "Provisional" and or "Interim" Presidents. This template does not attempt to replace the "List of Presidents of Peru" article, and a direct link can be added to the template for filling that gap now. Messhermit 03:06, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I understand that separate templates would be more compact and differentiate between "full Presidents" and "provisional/interim/acting" ones. However:

I agree with Jersey Devil that the distinction can be made with asterisks on the Template:PeruPresidents (the currently used template), or using italics to make it less cumbersome, considering that it is a somewhat large template already. An important issue, in my opinion more so than compactness, is navigation: users with only basic knowledge of Peruvian history should be able to go directly from any one president to another, regardless of type, instead of having to go necessarily through the full article; a link to it should still be included of course, but it shouldn't be the only way to go from, for example José de San Martín to Alan García.
A further distinction can also be made for unelected Presidents if deemed convenient.
An alternative could be to broaden the title of Template:PeruPresidents to "Heads of State of Peru" or something like that, to be more accurate in including all of them, but I don't really like that too much.
The current structure of Template:Presidents of Peru is not too helpful in my opinion. What I mean is that the asterisks, which I understand to show that provisional Presidents followed the labeled President, are not very intuitive. At first sight I thought that the labeled ones (e.g. Fujimori) were supposed to be the provisional ones themselves. And, as a minor thing, this structure doesn't allow to include an asterisk for San Martín and Luna Pizarro, since they come before the first full President.
Just for completeness, here's a link to Template:Presidents of Chile, mentioned by Messhermit and including only full Presidents, for anyone interested in the discussion. Regards, --Gabbec 05:58, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I will remove the asterisks and create a direct link for the "List of Presidents of Perú" under the name of "Head of States of Peru" in the template. Messhermit 14:13, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

If we're talking about a list of presidents I don't see why we should exclude interim presidents presidents with limited powers or dictators, because they also held the title of "president", that goes for Velasco Alvarado as well as for Paniagua. As for San Martín, his actual title was "Protector" and the regime he headed "Protectorado". So, strictly speaking, he should not be included in a list of Peruvian presidents. However I personally think this argument is moot because when wikipedia users go for a list of Presidents of Peru they're actually looking for a list of heads of state of the Peruvian republic, whether they are presidents or protectores. Thus, having multiple templates (for interim and full-term presidents) or adding asteriks will only create confusion. --Victor12 03:11, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Yepperz! I, too, agree that the list should be one, which includes interim presidents or double-term, dictators, protectors, etc. I Also agree that wikipedia users will want a list of Presidents of Peru in one page so as to avoid confusion. I manifested this to Messhermit, and also that San Martin should be included in this even if he was referred to as the "Protector" and not a President. --Dynamax 03:27, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

The consensus seems pretty clearly against this.--Jersey Devil 05:22, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I notice it :D . Then, now that we have all the attention on this issue, why don't we try to reach a concensus on how to organize them? Messhermit 13:48, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

How about something like this:

Presidents of Peru

Heads of state with alternative titles and provisional presidents in italics

I'm not entirely sure that I have the full vs provisional separation correct, so someone else should check that. I prefer italics over asterisks, mostly aesthetically, but the latter would probably make the distinction clearer. By the way, the current version of Template:PeruPresidents is missing a few presidents, which are included here, but I wouldn't be surprised if this one's missing someone anyway. The main article could also use some change, having two different tables there is confusing. I would preder a single, simple table, but if the larger, colored table with pictures is to be kept, the color scheme should at least be made clearer. Anyway, regards, --Gabbec 18:55, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I was working on that :P , but somehow in the way I got distracted by several other proyects and forgot to finish it. The colors, I have organize them, and I'll try to finish that table before classes start. Messhermit 21:18, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Collaboration

Now that it seems that we have some project members actively viewing this discussion page I thought I'd bring up the fact that Collaboration efforts have been in decline as of late. If we want to keep this project active we have to have involved members that at least participate in voting for the monthly collaboration.--Jersey Devil 19:35, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Translations from Spanish Wikipedia

I've just translated various articles related to Peruvian presidents from Spanish Wikipedia, some short and some long. There are still various articles in need of creation and marked with red under the presidents list. I've taken the time to review some of the first on the list which might be obvious to those of you who look at it often. You might also want to check them for facts and/or fix any innacuracies so far. I will try to continue contributing doing these translations every other day if time allows. --Dynamax 15:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

We have a Translation Project for translated articles. You should put the articles you did on there and add any other articles you want translated there.--Jersey Devil 07:33, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Peru Portal Problem

There seems to be a formatting problem on the Peru Portal, for some reason all the boxes on the right (the news box and such) keep on going all the way down.--Jersey Devil 05:36, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Do you still see that problem? What browser are you using, it looks OK to me with both Firefox and IE. The Portal used to look bad on my Firefox, that's why I ask. --Gabbec 03:07, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I use IE and yeah it seems to be good now. I don't know what is going on, it has been doing that on and off recently.--Jersey Devil 03:49, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Tumi

I can not find a page for the Peruvian Golden Tumi (i.e., the golden artifact [3]). Spanish Wikipedia doesn't seem to have it either [4]. I'd think something of this importance would definately have already had a page, especially in Spanish Wikipedia. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?--Jersey Devil 23:04, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, there should be a page, or at least a section elsewhere. Does anyone know enough about it to write a decent stub at least? --Gabbec 04:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)