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Significant issues ??

"An A-Class Article is very well-written, nearly comprehensive and approaching excellence, but may still have significant issues."  ???? I hope not! And that's at odds with the Version 1.0 description of A class, which should be even more important for medical articles.

GA, A, and FA-class should all conform to WP:MEDMOS. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:34, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. thanks for pointing it out.--Countincr ( T@lk ) 19:46, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Better. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:47, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Assessment aids

Would it be difficult to sort pages by time to last edit? Pages not edited for years may need deletion or merging elsewhere. Pages edited recently may need reassessment. --Una Smith 00:02, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

MEDMOS compliance wording is wrong

All articles under the medicine project should try to adhere to Manual of Style (medicine-related articles). An article is unlikely to attract a grade above B class if it does not confirm to style guideline. This wording is wrong. There is nothing at WP:WIAGA that obligates a GA to comply with MEDMOS; we need to explicitly state that articles should comply for GA and must comply for A-class. (We don't impose GA requirements, but we can impose A-class requirements for the Project.) On the other hand, FAs must comply with Project guidelines, per WP:WIAFA; this is already a requirement of WIAFA. Also, confirm is the wrong word, should be conform or follow. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

WP:WIAGA wording for this is: Although the entire Manual of Style should be followed, it is not completely necessary at this level. I think there is some room for this kind of wording and there is enough difference between unlikely and complete negativity to put this emphasis.--Countincr ( T@lk ) 01:55, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

MANY incorrect assessments

I just noticed that the chart shows a large jump in Medical good articles, even though there have been no recent medical articles at WP:GAC. Several editors are assessing articles as GA that have not been through WP:GAC. Now, every article assessed as GA needs to be double-checked, as many of them are wrong. I know the A-class and FA-class are still correct, as those numbers were 4 and 32 before this thing was put in place, but several GA assessments are wrong and need to be located and re-assessed back to B-class. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I found and reversed five of them, but I don't know if that's everything. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

A/GA difference unclear - please clarify

Dear all,

After trying to understand the Project Medicine rating scheme, I'm left with doubts about the separation of the A and GA categories. The other categories are reasonably ordered by quality: stub < start < b < a/ga?? < fa. Could you explain the difference between GA (good article) and A class? Is A better than GA? Does A also require a formal peer review process?

Thanks and best regards, Jakob Suckale 15:31, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Simple answer is, A class is better than GA. At present we do not have review group for A class assessment (some projects like WP:WPBIO do). It is done individually. FACs can be assessed for A class.--Countincr ( t@lk ) 23:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

New articles for assessment

By generating list from category pages, so far I have tagged project template into 2000+ articles . My guess is there are 10000+ medicine related articles in en.wiki. These articles need to be assessed to have a clearer picture of this project and in future might help setting up goals. Outrigg's script might save time. However read instructions carefully before changing anything in your monobook. Change TemplateA to WPMED in the script. Unassessed articles can be found here(quality) and here(priority). There is a delay in updating bot generated assessment logs --Countincr ( t@lk ) 20:28, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Installing Outriggr's script

This script was developed by Outriggr and steps shown here are for installing it for wikiproject medicine only and is not recommended for new users as it involves changing your monobook. Any change or edit you make is your own responsibility. please visit the script page to know how it works.

  1. For this script to work your skin preference should be monobook.js (it is the default setting). You can change to monobook by going to preference.
  2. Go to your monobook
  3. Copy and paste the five lines below into monobook.js.
// [[User:Outriggr/metadatatest.js]] <nowiki>
importScript('User:Outriggr/metadatatest.js'); 
assessmentMyTemplateCode = ["{{WPMED|class=|importance=}}", "{{TemplateB|class=|importance=}}", "{{TemplateC|class=|importance=}}"];
assessmentDefaultProject = "WPMED";
// </nowiki>
  1. Save the edit to monobook.js, then refresh your browser as the page directions indicate
  2. If you wish to delete the tool, just remove the pasted script and refresh the browser. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Countincr (talk • contribs) 14:25, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
  • User options

For all options, spelling and CaSe are important.

You can set the default importance. To set it to "mid" add this to monobook:
assessmentDefaultPriority = "Mid";  //
Assessment will be displayed as "minor" by default. To make them "not minor", add the following to your monobook.js:
assessmentMarkAsMinor = false;
The script will maintain all watchlist settings, and if you have the Wikipedia Preference "Add pages I edit to my watchlist" turned on, by default all assessed articles will be added to your watchlist. To prevent this (i.e. to maintain the watchlist status of only pages you already have watchlisted), add the following to your monobook.js:
assessmentOverrideWatchPref = true;

Priority

I've drafted a revised importance scale for the WPMED project. Since practically every medical condition and treatment has "international notability," the usual (geography-oriented) rules seem inadequate. Please take a look at this draft and let me know what you think. (Comments here, please, so everyone can easily be involved in the discussion). Thanks, WhatamIdoing (talk) 07:09, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Short article, not stub -- please create a new category

Some articles are voluntarily kept short, because they cover a topic closely related to a much larger article. For example, tumor is kept short to reduce duplication with the huge, encyclopedic cancer article.

Tumor is not a stub, it is (and will remain) a short article. Please create a new category. Emmanuelm (talk) 12:51, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand your problem. Tumor has never been classified as a stub by this project. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:22, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
WhatamIdoing, you are right: Tumor is classified as a "start", which is also wrong. I was thinking of neoplasm, classified a "stub" until I changed it today. I was avoiding the neoplasm article because, as you know well, we disagree on this "voluntarily kept short" business.
I was hoping to find support for my idea. Finding you running the show here too, I guess I'll look elsewhere. Emmanuelm (talk) 20:02, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
You might consider taking your proposal to Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment. I think they're the people who own the "quality" scheme. (The only thing WPMED adds is the column of examples on the far right side of the table.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:42, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
It is theoretically possible for a short article to become B-class, GA or even FA. In practice, short articles have a habit of remaining start class. Anything that is not a stub is not a stub; Wikipedia does not allow for further size distinctions. JFW | T@lk 22:41, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

should a separate department be made just for tagging?

there are thousands of articles that are yet to be tagged. While they mainly lie in other workgroups, the medicine workgroup should also be tagged if they have any clinical relevance. Just open any medical school textbook and start entering vocabulary words and then adding the tagging. That task alone would be huge, should it be its own department? Tkjazzer (talk) 04:26, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

No. Tagging is only a means to an end. The contributors presently involved in tagging are already doing so. At the moment we don't need added levels of organisation, we need to assist users working on articles who need editoral assistance. JFW | T@lk 05:40, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Without wanting to sound the least bit like a therapist, can you tell me what a "department" means to you in this context? Assessment already has its own page and its own talk page. What else are you looking for? WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:07, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

C-Class category

We now have C-Class articles, but the category doesn't exist. Can someone adept at such things fix it for me? Thanks, WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:20, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

The category has been created. --Scott Alter 22:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Are we really helped by even more depths to which an article can sink? JFW | T@lk 06:54, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

No, but we might be helped by more heights to which a stub can rise. I'd like some day to re-assess all of the Start-class articles, which are better described at the moment as "not obviously B-class" articles. The assessments I've done in the last six or eight months have been very approximate. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:31, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

New section: About the scope

I've added a new section, partly as a handy place to list links to related projects' banners. This is also an effort to document the current "ideal" practice, although I'm open to changing the practice. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:41, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Assessment article examples

The examples of articles with progress assessments uses current rather than dated articles. I believe the rating on some should probably have been upgraded because of updates, if somebody good at rating could put in oldid as in the Exeter Cathedral example for the C rating it would remove doubt thanks. Dmcq (talk) 12:32, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Your views

I can't make up my mind about the two strength-related articles in Category:Unassessed-Class medicine articles. I'd be happy to have anyone else make a decision about their importance. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:49, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


Neuroblastoma

Curious -- after a couple years of beefing up the neuroblastoma article with current references and thorough history of phase III clinical trials and final clean up for organization/grammar/tone and other elements, it was granted Good Article status. Very pleased the last couple years the article gets about 1000 hits per day -- impressive for an article on a rare pediatric cancer. Now a banner appeared on the talk page Talk:Neuroblastoma a while ago giving it a "stub" status. Looking at the definition and examples of stubs I am confused why the article has stub status? Thanks for any clarification and help. DMLud (talk) 16:22, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Fixed Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:03, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Sarcopenia

Who gave Sarcopenia a "low importance" assessment? That seems to be a poor decision. Gacggt (talk) 22:19, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I did (months and months ago); the article struck me as being more about the term (which is not important) than about the phenomenon (which is important). It's changed significantly since then, and I've reassessed. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:31, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
Okay, thank you. Since I've just re-written the article, can the "quality" assessment also be revisited? Thanks again... Gacggt (talk) 22:27, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
It's insufficiently sourced to be a B-class article, and the lead will require a good deal of work before you could consider a good article nomination. Are you familiar with the manual of style for medicine-related articles? It's sometimes helpful for developing a reasonably complete article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:43, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Life skills

Is Life skills within the scope of this project? I don't want to be unnecessarily exclusionist, but I don't want to treat daily life like a medical issue, either. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:32, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it should be in the scope of the project. I see WPMED as covering what physicians practice, rather than being inclusive of all healthcare and social-related items. --Scott Alter 17:43, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Revision of tagging guidelines

Since the Is WPMED the correct WikiProject to support this article? section was created last year, we have never really discussed the suggestions. I'd like to address these items now. I think that most of the "probably yes" items should be "probably no." Is there any reason to double tag items? When a project is identified as a descendant of WPMED, I think it is no longer necessary to include WPMED. Why bother including all articles of Nursing, Anatomy, and Dentistry, when the respective project already maintains its own listing of articles that are all a sub-set of Medicine? Regarding Pharmacology, although the scope of the project is "articles relating to drugs and pharmacology," I'd say that almost all articles relate to humans. Also, taking a look at current practice, most medications are not tagged with WPMED. Because of this, I would also say that WPMED should not be tagged on medication articles.

The "probably no" and "use judgment" sections look good. The only change I would make is about infectious diseases/pathogens. I think the pathogens should not belong to WPMED, but the diseases should. The pathogens would be tagged with Wikipedia:WikiProject Microbiology, Wikipedia:WikiProject Prokaryotes and protists, Wikipedia:WikiProject Viruses, Wikipedia:WikiProject Fungi, etc. Exceptions would be infections that are treated medically to prevent progression to disease (such as HIV) and pathogens that cause various illnesses that do not have their own disease names (such as Staphylococcus aureus) - the reasoning being that these articles include a significant amount of medical information about pathogen detection and treatment in humans.

Another item I would add to "probably no" is non-medical health-related articles. These would be better covered by Wikipedia:WikiProject Health and fitness. --Scott Alter 18:27, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Isn't it actually advisable to decide upon all those things in close cooperation with the sister projects? Is there some interaction between the projects? The lists of "probably yes" and "no" need to be coordinated between overlapping projects, otherwise it might be a little futile.
As a new user who just wants to improve Wikipedia, and who's interested in a subject on the cusp between microbiology and prokaryotes and medicine, I find it hard to decide to which project to belong and to whose regulations and scope to be more "loyal".
I just wish there were some "Life and Health Science MetaWikiProject Council" that will address exactly this overlap. But maybe I'm wishing for too much. :-). Pixie (talk) 11:31, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Each WikiProject gets to determine its own scope. So WPMED can include, or not include, any article it wants, even if it seems utterly irrational to the outside observer. Consequently, there's no need to coordinate with other projects, and when you're tagging an article, you follow the guidelines (if any) for the specific tag. In practice, this means that you follow our advice for placing (or not) the WPMED tag, and when we (meaning "I", since I wrote that section originally) suggest the addition of other projects, it's simply a suggestion.
It's important not to confuse the WikiProject system with article categories. WikiProjects are social groups that have declared an interest in some articles. If people wanted, they could start a "WikiProject Random articles", based on improving any article that they reach by clicking Special:Randompage.
Scott, I like your suggested addition to 'probably not'. I'd be happy to see our list narrowed a bit; we have a lot of articles that we've included simply because there's no WikiProject Physiology. The result is thousands of low-importance (to WPMED) articles. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:15, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
As you can see, I just updated the section. Feel free to make changes or add comments as you see fit. --Scott Alter 03:33, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

WPMED template changes

At Template talk:WPMED#Meta Banner, I have re-started the discussion of converting {{WPMED}} to use {{WPBannerMeta}}. This would cause minor changes to article categorization, which should have some discussion. It would be appreciated if any interested editors wound contribute at Template talk:WPMED#Meta Banner. --Scott Alter 17:58, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I just updated {{WPMED}}. Many task forces will now have an increase in unknown-importance articles. If the task forces do not assess their articles importance, then articles will appear as unknown instead of taking the main importance for WPMED. The other change is that the names of the categories for unassessed articles has changed. It will now use Category:Unassessed medicine articles and similarly-named categories for the task forces. --Scott Alter 21:14, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Disease outbreaks

Should this project include articles about disease outbreaks? There are many articles about epidemics (within Category:Epidemics) - some have WPMED tags, others don't. Ideally, they would belong to a public health project, but one does not exist. Alternatively, they might fall under Wikipedia:WikiProject Disaster management. --Scott Alter 16:03, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

From my memory of previous discussions, the two views are "only if they actually had some practice-changing implications for medicine" (otherwise, they're more local history than anything else) and "all of them, but they're low importance". I can work with either option.
As an aside, I'm not convinced that this category (and its subcats) is being correctly applied. It is both strangely empty and contains a few things I wouldn't include. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:21, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

So...

So would you consider Coxsackie A virus to be within the scope of this project? There's some information about diseases and their treatments, but the diseases have other names/separate articles. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure. Based on the criteria I wrote, probably not...but I wouldn't be opposed to its inclusion. It is hard to generalize all organisms/infections. Maybe another criterion to add is to include any organism that causes a disease process that also could be caused by other things. So, using coxsackie as an example:
  • Coxsackie A virus would be excluded, since it is one of the few causes of Hand, foot and mouth disease (which should contain medical information)
  • Coxsackie B virus would be included, since it can be the source of problems with many other potential causes. In pericarditis and myocarditis, coxsackie B might be mentioned as a cause, but I would not expect the illness articles to contain specific management for coxsackie B (unlike the coxsackie A with hand, foot and mouth disease).
I realize that this is basically splitting hairs and being overly specific, but I'm just trying to put my thought process into words and making it generalizable to all articles. If you can do it better (or want to use different criteria), give it a shot! I'm not that strongly in favor one way or the other, but I think the way I outlined makes sense such that WPMED is only including the articles with the bulk of the medical information. --Scott Alter 03:36, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
If this were an easy one, I wouldn't have asked.  ;-)
Let's say that we included both of them for the sake of my next question: How would you rate the importance of a good article to this project? Both mid? Both low? Cocksackie B at mid, and Cocksackie A at low? Something else? WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:51, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Another one for comment

Is Genital retraction syndrome a "medical condition"? Is it within the scope of this project? If so, is it Mid- or Low-importance? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:07, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Looks more apropos of WP Psychology. If it is a medical condition, would think low-importance. Zodon (talk) 02:45, 28 March 2009 (UTC)


What about Nicotine polacrilex? It seems to be the active ingredient in nicotine chewing gum and such things. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:35, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Nicotine polacrilex should be under the scope of WP:DRUGS. Renaissancee (talk) 23:13, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Why isn't sexuality and disability WPMED?

The WPMED tag which I added to Sexuality and disability was recently removed, with the comment that the article appears to be outside the scope of WPMED. I am having troubles figuring out why it would be outside the scope, given that disability and Assistive technology are in WPMED.

Reproductive health counseling includes assistance for disabled and information on sexuality in older age. Likewise, there are medical procedures, medications and devices to assist the disabled with sexuality (restoring sexual function, working around limitations, etc.). Thoughts? Zodon (talk) 05:43, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't feel strongly about this, but in general, the subject of that stub does not appear to be (1) a disease or (2) a treatment for a disease, which are the core areas for this project. In fact, it appears to be about normal life, as complicated by various social and physical challenges. We don't really want to medicalize everything. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:40, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Not trying to over medicalize, guess I tend to include conditions as well as diseases, and see disabilities as typically conditions that result from diseases, accidents, physiological malfunction or other medical causes -- which are usually studied, treated, and ameliorated by medical people or medical means. Zodon (talk) 07:11, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't claim to have the one True™ answer here; it's certainly an issue over which reasonable people can disagree.
The decision is also complicated by the stubbiness of the article. From the title, I think that this is more likely to move in a sociological direction: e.g., society frowns on sexual activity among disabled people, it's hard for a disabled person to find a partner, do paraphilias, infertility and impotence really count as disabilities (I think most people would say no), and so forth. I don't really think there's all that much to be said about core medical issues. A disabled person that has, or wants to have, sex is not really any more likely to need medical intervention than a non-disabled person. Perhaps you have a different notion of what the article will eventually say? WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:49, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

House (TV series)

Is House (TV series) within the scope of this project? WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:36, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Nope, House is a TV Show, not a documentary or a important physician. Doesn't meet our scope. Renaissancee (talk) 16:33, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Good, because that's what I thought, and so I pulled the tag. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:28, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Major country-specific articles

Normally, a country specific article is low importance. But what about a major article area, like "Health in (name of country)"? Low, or mid? WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:55, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Hospitals and Major Biomedical research centers?

Are they in our scope or not? The preset scope does not give me any help. Renaissancee (talk) 04:04, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes -- assuming that they are truly notable/shouldn't be deleted -- but of "Low" importance. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:29, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Yawn: in or out?

What do you think: Is Yawn within the scope of this project? I think it can be a medical sign, but the article doesn't really discuss that. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:34, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

In. It has diagnostic relevance, e.g. in the diagnosis and treatment of migraine. JFW | T@lk 21:20, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 Done C/Mid, then, seems about right to me. There's almost no medical information (so it's not complete enough for us to declare B class), and since it relates to hyperventilation and migraine (and perhaps more), then mid seems reasonable enough. Please feel free to change if you disagree. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:31, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

In or out? (six)

What do you think? Are the following articles within WPMED's scope?

  1. Human anatomy
  2. Fetal position
  3. ACAM2000 (smallpox vaccine)
  4. 72F fusion protein (experimental tuberculosis vaccine)
  5. Lujo virus (virus, with reported cases)
  6. A Counterblaste to Tobacco (old medical/health publication)

Please share your opinions. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

  1. Anatomy? I think you already know my answer for that. It's not under our scope.
  2. Fetal Position doesn't really have to do with medicine at all except you can get yourself into their, so I'd say no.
  3. Smallpox Vaccine: Drug, under WPPHARM
  4. Vaccine: Drug, under WPPHARM
  5. Lujo Virus: Yes, disease.
  6. The Treatsie? If that task force of "potentional quackery" or whatever we're going to call it is passed, I believe it should be under WPMED, if not, then no, it shouldn't.

Renaissancee (talk) 16:24, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


  1. We accept Alternative medicine, and Human anatomy is a major subject area that is no less related.
  2. Fetal position is a major issue for obstetrics. An unfortunate presentation could be classified as a medical condition.
WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

______ Anonymous

Lots of these articles like AA or Marijuana Anonymous, ect have popped up with the WPMED tag. Are they under our scope? Renaissancee (talk) 16:20, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

After several days of scratching my head over that, I finally assessed them today, but I'm not committed to it. Ultimately, my thought was this: we accept a whole lot of disease-related organizations, like Talk:American Cancer Society, and who's to say that drug addiction is less of a "disease" than cancer? WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:10, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

In or out: Urban legends about illegal drugs

Is Urban legends about illegal drugs within the scope of WPMED? It seems more WP:HEALTH to me. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:36, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

In or out: Psychologist studying biology of vision

What subject area would you classify Thomas T. Norton in? Psychology, because he has a PhD in psychology? Or ophthalmology, because of his work on how the eye works? WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Both. Renaissancee (talk) 01:51, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

A classification

Little unsure about the A classification. Does it require a formal review? Or can they simply be applied? Tay Sachs disease has some formatting issues and contains numerous pictures that add nothing? Were would one post to have it reassessed? Cheers--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:52, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

WPMED does not have a process for identifying A-class articles. The general recommendations (i.e., from other articles) are that A-class articles should be reviewed by two editors who are at least somewhat familiar with the content area, and who have not been significantly involved.
If you think that a previously identified A-class no longer deserves that ranking, then you should feel free to demote it unilaterally. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:40, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Medical Law

The [Safety and Quality Improvement Act of 2005] was added to our scope a few days ago, but I have no clue if it should be under our wing, should we give it to WP Law? Or what? Renaissancee (talk) 17:51, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Law that apply specifically to medicine I feel belong under WP:MED. Of low importance however.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:56, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Does Mercury (element) belong with WP:MED?

Any comments? My personal opinion is no. A page on the medical aspect of mercury yes but not on mercury in general. Lead for example is not part of WP:MED.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:09, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

No. This is what mercury poisoning is for. JFW | T@lk 22:29, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
removed. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:18, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Water purification

Is Water purification within our scope? Municipal water treatment certainly prevents some infectious diseases, but is it really a "medical" article? WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:39, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Where does medicine stop and public health/hygiene start? I don't think this is a medical subject, but that's personal. JFW | T@lk 20:25, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
Public health IMO belong within medicine. One can do an entire sub specialty in it.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:29, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
Medical article? No..not really. As Jfd said, it does stop some infectious diseases and whatnot, but its main purpose is to reuse wasted water, not to save lives by cleaning it. Renaissancee (talk) 20:14, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
It's been removed, and I've picked up Waterborne diseases, which clearly does fit in our scope. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:51, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Medical Equipment

Cane came up under our scope, presumably for the white cane used by the visually impaired. Should we add popular medical equipment to our scope at low importance? Renaissancee (talk) 19:40, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I've been ignoring it in the hope that the merge proposal will be decided one way or the other before we have to make a decision. I lean slightly towards including it as durable medical equipment: it's not really any less medical than a powerchair. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:23, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
I removed it due to the article white cane, which is the one used by the visually impaired. Renaissancee (talk) 23:13, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
What about people who use canes because they have trouble walking? If Walker (mobility) is in our scope, shouldn't the smaller and far more common cane (walking stick) be in our scope? WhatamIdoing (talk) 07:19, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

A classification (2)

We do not really use the A classification system. Wondering if we should just get rid of it? Having it between GA and FA without any formal mechanism of review I think confuses matters.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:51, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I would approve of the motion. Renaissancee (talk) 01:34, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
We can't exactly get rid of it, since the overall scheme belongs to WP:1.0, and so long as articles are assessed in that class, it will automatically turn up in the stats table.
Has anyone actually been confused by it? I find it easy to ignore things like that. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:25, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
How about every GA automatically becoming A-class? It would rapidly populate the empty category. JFW | T@lk 10:28, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
There is a specific GA review. I recommend we just change the two A class articles to Bs and request the editors apply for GA.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:41, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Why not just leave them alone, and do something more important? The old assessments aren't actually hurting anything, are they? WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:44, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
The A class people have their own assessment processes. You cannot just dismiss them, in my opinion. Agree with WhatamIdoing. Just leave them alone. —mattisse (Talk) 01:48, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Is there a formal process? I am not sure if having a category between GA and FA really adds anything in a project the size of this. Well they are not hurting anyone I do not really see the point currently in its existence.Doc James (talk · contribs · email)
There is a formal process at other WikiProjects. The 1.0 team has apparently declared that all A-class designations must be reviewed/approved by a minimum of two editors (GA requires only one). So long as two editors are involved, WikiProject Medicine can apparently use any process it chooses to declare an article to be A-class. Since the class standards were last revised (mid-2008?), we haven't bothered to do this -- speaking only for myself, it seems likely that so few articles are likely to qualify that it doesn't seem pointful -- but there's nothing to prevent us. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:12, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Some projects, like Military History, have a tight A-class evaluation method and high standards, and consequently they have gotten many articles through FAC. So A-class is beneficial if a project is organized and goal-directed. GA is aiming for a minimum article quality and don't reliably use WP:MEDRS. —mattisse (Talk) 19:39, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

(undent)

  1. Have removed Diborane from WP:MED as it does not contain any referenced content to this project and other than an MSDS link is not within scope.
  2. We thus have one remaining A class article Myocardial infarction. Well the article is good there are still some unreferenced sections. If would require some ( probably not a lot ) of work to meet GA criteria. Should we delist it from being an A article? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:17, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
My usual rule of thumb is that a B-class article must have at least one inline ref per section. MI doesn't meet that standard, but I might be willing to overlook it. I do not think, however, that we can accept it being listed as A-class with two significant sections completely unref'd. WhatamIdoing (talk) 07:29, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Good rule of thumb. MI however is fairly comprehensive and I have no problem with it being B. Would not require much work to get to GA.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 07:49, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

MI is not in a great state and needs work to qualify for GA. Agree with B-class until the lay terminology has been trimmed, appropriate subarticles are linked to, and MEDRS have been used instead of ~180 mostly primary sources. JFW | T@lk 11:09, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Medical Journals..?

I had a Med. Journal that popped up in assessment. Yes/no? I think it should be added at low importance only if it is a very creditably and notable in the academic world. Renaissancee (talk) 01:35, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

It's more important that it get tagged for {{WPJournals}}, but I generally accept all medical journals, with importance set to Low. After all, we're the editors most likely to improve articles like Medical Hypotheses. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:53, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Stub stuff

I think we need to review the stubs. My guess is that about 5% of our 'stubs' are no longer stubs. Does anyone want to help? If you're interested in doing this, these are the steps that I normally do in this process:

  1. Make sure that the page is not a redirect to another article. (Leave a note for me with the article name if you encounter this.)
  2. Skim the article to check for obvious vandalism.
  3. Count sentences (after reverting vandalism or other major problems): As a rule of thumb, if it's more than 10 sentences, it's not a stub.
    • If an article looks better than the typical stub, but it only has eight to ten sentences, then a good image, a list, or a completed infobox should be counted as 'sentences' for this purpose.
    • If an article looks worse than the average stub despite being long (say, because it is very wordy without really saying anything, or because it has eleven extremely short sentences), then please leave it marked as a stub despite complying with this rule of thumb.
  4. If it's not a stub any longer, then please:
    • Remove any {{stub}}-type templates from the bottom of the article.
    • Make sure that there is some sort of category listed at the bottom of the article (some articles rely on the stub templates for their cats).
    • Update the |class=Stub on the talk page to reflect the correct class (probably now "Start"). If you're at all uncertain what the correct class is, then simply delete the "Stub" designation, and it will get added to my list of unassessed articles.
    • Consider helping our friends at these projects by updating the quality assessment for the other projects at the same time. If it's definitely not a stub for us, then it's probably not a stub for anyone.
  5. Make sure the subject is appropriate for WPMED:

This takes a long time to explain, but it doesn't usually take me more than a few seconds per article (especially if nothing needs to be changed). There are so many to be reviewed that I'd appreciate some help.

To avoid duplicating work, we can coordinate efforts by first letter, e.g., articles starting with the letter L. Is anyone willing to help? (I'll let you pick a letter first, if you want.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:32, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

 Done I meant to say above: I've already done the few articles whose names start with numbers, so please pick from A to Z, not from 0 to 9. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:35, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I would like to help: where is the list of stubs? doctorwolfie (talk) 18:51, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

The stubs are at Category:Stub-Class_medicine_articles. I've done the stubs listed under the letters "Y" and "Z" and plan to do "X" soon. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:58, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Should I start at A and work forward?doctorwolfie (talk) 13:58, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

That works for me -- although to be candid, I started at the end because "A" has so many pages in it (including a bunch of purely anatomy pages that need to have the WPMED tag removed). WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:01, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Just to make sure I understand correctly A_delta_fiber looks like it has expanded to more than 10 sentences, and looks like it has grown larger than a stub? So I can de-stubbify it?doctorwolfie (talk) 20:35, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, exactly. I'd rate that one as 'start' instead of 'stub'.
The subject looks more anatomy-ish than medicine-ly to me, but since a task force tagged it, I'd probably leave the WPMED tag on the article (after upgrading to 'start'), and add the WikiProject Anatomy. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:27, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I hate to be pesky, but I want to make sure that I'm helping rather than harming: Can you check and see if I did it right (I just changed the stub to start and added Anatomy) Please let me know if there's anything else to do.

Also ARCH_Air_Medical_Service seems to be quite lengthy now, but still doesn't have any references (lots of links, though); what's to be done with it?

Thanksdoctorwolfie (talk) 21:53, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Feel free to ask me questions: I'm happy to answer them, and it reminds me about what other people find confusing about this process.
The stub tag on the article gets removed entirely in these cases. The banner changes all happen on the talk page. If you look at my recent changes to A delta fiber and Talk:A delta fiber, then you'll see what I did. (Also, I pulled the Category:Anatomy, because it seemed redundant to the Neuroanatomy category.)
Articles with no refs cannot be rated higher than Start class, no matter how long. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:16, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I think I'm catching on doctorwolfie (talk) 22:29, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I finally made it through the W's. "U" and "V" are my next targets. How are you doing with A? WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:44, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Slow....AND my laptop died, so I can only work from work until it gets fixed doctorwolfie (talk) 17:20, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry to hear that your laptop died. I know it's slow going under those circumstances, but I really appreciate the help (and the company!). I'm working backwards on my target list. I have all of "U" to go, but only about 30 left in "V" (I've finished all the Vs after "Van"). WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:11, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
I finally got the last few pages in "V" done. I won't be able to work on this much for the next few days, but I hope to get started on "U" before the weekend. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:40, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Washing

Is Washing within the scope of this project? Scrubbing for surgery (which I can't seem to find) would be, but regular washing seems more like a 'daily life' than a truly medical subject. What do you think? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:09, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

handwashing is but I would say washing is not. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:10, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

In or out?

Is Health management system within the scope of WPMED? Is this mainstream or AltMed or something else (biology?)?

What about Blood serum? Is that more "medicine" or more "anatomy"? WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:23, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

When one says HMS what we cover is not what pops into my mind. This page needs a disambig page to deal with the medical health management systems. [1] The one above is altmed. Blood serum would be anatomy IMO.--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:27, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Archive for this page

I just removed from old requests that have been resolved. Do we have an archive for this page? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:49, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

We manually archive this talk page, but not the requests at WP:MEDA. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:45, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Possible top importance neurology articles

I would say that Parkinson's disease and multiple sclerosis could be top articles for neurology. In addition, the latter is very visited.--Garrondo (talk) 06:18, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Agree these should be top importance medicine articles.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:44, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Excellent suggestions. I've updated both pages. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:25, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Protection of our projects best works

As mentioned here we have had some vandalism go un reverted on some of our best articles. It takes a great effort and IMO all FAs and GAs should be either under semi protection or flagged revisions.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:45, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

What to do with set indices

So we have a number of articles that are WP:SETINDEXes. (Acute leukemia is an example, and the reason I started looking into this.)

These pages are sort of halfway between a proper list article and a disambiguation page. A proper disambiguation page has no connection (other than their names) between the items listed on the page. A set index has a significant connection; they are "Lists of all Xs named Y"—all diseases named acute leukemia, for example, or all diseases named Wilson's. By contrast, a proper disambiguation page would be all things named Wilson's, and include not just Wilson's disease and Wilson's thyroid syndrome from medicine, but also Wilson's half a dozen birds, Wilson's theorem from math, and several businesses named Wilson's.

They're also not exactly, perfectly like regular articles. I can't imagine anyone turning Acute leukemia into a full, feature-length article, because it is, properly speaking, more than one disease.

Most of WPMED's set indices have been tagged with {{disambig}}. They should be tagged with {{SIA}}. But then my question is: How do we assess them? Are they lists? Are they stubs? Are they disambig-class?

What do you think? WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:50, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

I'd never heard of set indices before you mentioned this, but they makes sense. After putting some thought into it, I'm not sure Acute leukemia is even a set index. Diseases containing the words "acute leukemia" are all distinct processes that share common characteristics. Set indices appear to be for a set of articles that all have the same exact name, except for some sort of disambiguating modifier (whether a year, location, or model number). The examples used include different versions of the same thing with the same exact name (Dodge Charger) and multiple versions of similar things with the same exact name (USS Enterprise and List of peaks named Signal Mountain). I don't think different versions with similar, but non-identical names (Acute leukemias) would count. The question of disambiguation vs. set index comes down to whether acute leukemias are "different types of things that share the same (or similar) name" or "specific type[s] that share the same (or similar) name." While acute leukemia is a type of diseases, it isn't specific enough type for me to consider the articles listed at Acute leukemia to be a set.
If someone searches for "acute leukemia," that person does not really know what they are looking for, and thus needs a disambiguation page to figure out which topic he/she wanted. Acute leukemia should either be a disambiguation page or an article describing the method of classifying and differentiating acute leukemias. I prefer the former.
I basically just avoided answering your question, but using the criteria I just synthesized above, I can't think of any WPMED articles that are set indices. Maybe if you can give me a different example, I'll try to give a more relevant (but possibly completely contradictory (if I come up with different logic)) response! As much as I hate to say it, assessment of these pages might just have to be on a case-by-case basis. --Scott Alter (talk) 20:11, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
Since this discussion, I have been pointed what I believe is the answer: WP:DABCONCEPT. Basically, it endorses the second of your options, that we ought to write an article that describes the concept and provides summaries and links to the members, rather than just links. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:22, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
That does seem like what we are describing. Although it did not exist when this discussion was started. (Created here.) --Scott Alter (talk) 01:00, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

A lot of the most popular pages do not pertain directly to medicine. Have been mentioning this page in a number of publications. Wondering if we should removed some of the terms like anal sex, female ejaculation and masturbation from WP:MED? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:24, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't feel strongly about it either way, but I generally think these are not, strictly speaking, medical subjects. I feel the same about Infant, which is also tagged as WPMED. I think some of the impetus behind this is overmedicalization, and some (in the case of Infant) is the absence of a "perfect" project to support it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:07, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
Good point. I think WP:BOLD should be used and feel free to remove these entries from WP:MED without asking. If someone has a different opinion about that, they will let us know. NCurse work 12:06, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Anal sex is human sexual behaviour and psychology. While it predisposes to disease, it is not in itself a medical concept.
Female ejaculation is Human physiology and falls under the scope of this project.
Masturbation is human sexual behaviour and psychology. It has no medical context (although it might have had in the 19th century).
Infant is more difficult, because growth and development are physiological and psychological concepts that probably belong under this project. JFW | T@lk 12:33, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Sexual intercourse covers anal sex and thus IMO is okay to keep. This is similar to how motor vehicular collision is within the project but car is not. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:18, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
As I stated, look at Wikipedia: WikiProject Medicine. It states, "This project aims to enable Wikipedians to cooperate, organize, make suggestions and share ideas on the improvement of the medicine and health-related articles." As I stated to James, anal sex is a health-related article. Yes, people who engage in it won't necessarily have medical problems. But people who have vaginal sex won't necessarily have medical problems either, and yet I don't see you removing Sexual intercourse from being within the project's scope. Anal sex is just one aspect of sexual intercourse, so why shouldn't it be within the project's scope? Why shouldn't it be within the project's scope when it's been shown to be far riskier than any other type of sexual activity? The article clearly demonstrates this. Anal sex is riskier in terms of STIs/STDs, and is even risky when it comes to the anatomy of the anus/rectum, if people aren't careful (sufficient lubrication, and so on). So exactly how is it wrong to list this article as within the scope of WikiProject Medicine? Because, no doubt, when it comes to having a project weigh in on aspects of this article, WikiProject Medicine would be just as important as Wikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality (even more so considering how inactive Wikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality can be).
Why is Wikipedia: WikiProject Medicine starting to be so strict in what it lists as within its scope?
Should sexual topics such as anal sex never be brought here when it relates to health or medicine? Flyer22 (talk) 00:21, 12 July 2011
Never mind. James's reasoning that "Sexual intercourse covers anal sex and thus IMO is okay to keep. This is similar to how motor vehicular collision is within the project but car is not." is sufficient enough. Although I don't see the comparison as that great; "car" has nothing to do with "health," unless you count fumes coming from it, while anal sex and other sexual acts do. I'm also going to have to disagree with Jfdwolff about sexual acts not being physiological, since plenty of reliable sources describe them as such. But, anyway, that should mean that bringing issues regarding health aspects of the Anal sex article here is okay. But I still feel that WikiProject Medicine is being too strict. Flyer22 (talk) 00:27, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Well, maybe we're being a little strict, although to be accurate, we've been that way for years.
At some level, the only issue is "What does this group of people want to work on?" The scope doesn't have to be rational or make sense to outsiders (although, since it's us, it probably will anyway). If we decided that we wanted to work on Podunk, Massachusetts, then we could legitimately declare that article to be within our scope.
In terms of the borderline cases, one of the standards we've used is how much of the article is really health-related. Sometimes we'll tag an article that, strictly speaking, is about anatomy, but we accept it because it has a substantial amount of material related to (say) a disease process in that bit of anatomy. We also consider whether another group (here, WP:SEX) exists to follow the articles. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:38, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining how you guys generally work. I don't follow this project closely, obviously. Wikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality is pretty inactive these days, though. Flyer22 (talk) 00:46, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
I think the key though is to get Wikiproject Sexology and sexuality more active. Rather than having WPMED co cover all these topics. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:04, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Good point. But a lot of Wikiprojects seem to be dying. I'm not sure how I could get any of them more active. But oh well. Just have to operate without them for the most part. Flyer22 (talk) 01:35, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
WP:REVIVE has some advice on how to do that. IMO the most important thing to remember is that a WikiProject is a group of people, not some pages or content. Successful WikiProjects are first and foremost a group of friends who are working together. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:22, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
?Here's another one for the borderlands: Is Vivisection really a medical topic? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:04, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Yes not current medicine but maybe part of the history of medicine. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:52, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Old reassessments

Cats and books

Does anyone know why cats, templates, and books are turning up as "NA" rather than cats, books, and templates in some, but not all, of the task force stats? WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:54, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes - not all task forces have categories for "Template/Category/Book-Class x articles". {{WPMED}} will automatically detect if these categories exist. If they do, it will place the page in that category. If not, it will place the page in the NA category. When the task forces were created, we did not create all of the "expanded" class categories for them. Only the task forces that wanted to specifically use them created those categories. If you want to use them, just create the categories. Eventually, the pages will be re-categorized. Or, you can null edit the talk pages to recategorize the pages by force. --Scott Alter (talk) 13:38, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Wikiwork

There's a new calculation being listed with the stats. Basically, it's 6 points (against) for every stub, and 5 for every start-class article within the project's scope. The goal is to get to zero (all featured/all the group's wikiwork is complete). This might be useful for tracking over time, but the lag in reassessment plus the growth in articles might result in significant work being recorded as losing ground. The average status might be more useful. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:57, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Is this tracked over time anywhere? Just a single number as is shown now doesn't say much. Would be nice to have some automatically updated graphs on some of the assessment statistics (also motivating to keep them up-to-date). --WS (talk) 13:46, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

In or out? (again)

Is Enzyme within our scope, or not? I'm thinking 'not', but I wanted to get other people's opinions. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:33, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

That's my impression as well. Biosthmors (talk) 15:55, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I've removed it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:31, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Just to let you know

This project has been mentioned at: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Council#More_on_Project_Assessments. XOttawahitech (talk) 03:11, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Stub or List?

I'm not sure how to rate Pegleg. What do you think? WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:15, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

I would say start-class. Although a large part of it is currently a list, this is just a part of the article, I would only rate it list-class if the title would be 'List of pegleg wearers'. Including the list, I would not rate it as stub, but you could do that based on its textual content only. --WS (talk) 08:01, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Coronary thrombosis

Should Coronary thrombosis be mid-priority or high? WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:44, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Mid-priority, as it is a contributing factor to myocardial infarction but usually as a consequence of atherosclerotic plaque rupture. JFW | T@lk 20:23, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Menstrual hygiene

I've added Tampon, Sanitary napkin, Cloth menstrual pad, Menstrual cup, and Pantiliner to WPMED reproductive = yes. They all need quality and importance ratings.

All of these articles suffer from poorly sourced and POV medical information. Menstrual hygiene is an important component of reproductive health, particularly in countries where it is lacking. And tampons, sanitary napkins, and menstrual cups are all classified as medical devices in the U.S. by the FDA. I think all of these articles could be really improved with some WPMED input. Thanks! Mvolz (talk) 16:18, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

BLP

Is David Bohm within the scope of this project (realistically/actual practical support)? WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:20, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Assessments

Labelled as C class. Some sections are unreffed. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 08:05, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
Changed to "start" from "Stub" Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 13:52, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
Looks like it was done. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:50, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
  • Kallmann syndrome I have made various edits to this page over the years. I take a special interest since I am a patient with this condition. I am interested in any feedback that could help me improve the page even further and hopefully try to increase it to from C class. Thank you. Neilsmith38 (talk) 20:25, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
Agree B class. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:51, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
Changed to C class and organized a bunch of stuff. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:04, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
  • I'd like to nominate the new article Anti-Hu associated encephalitis for assessment. Two of my classmates wrote it and I think it should be at least B class if not GA in my absolutely UNqualified opinion. I'm really proud of how they made a topic that was inaccessible even to doctors and explained it so that anyone could understand without shying away from the science-y science. NewDancinShoes (talk) 01:50, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
User:NewDancinShoes looks good. Have put it at B class. To get to GA one must go through the WP:GAN process. Best Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:08, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
Sure. B class. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:15, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for looking it over! ―Biochemistry🙴❤ 14:00, 10 May 2018 (UTC)


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