Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/About the newsletter

English Wikipedia or Meta?

Previously there was a health newsletter on meta at meta:WikiProject_Med/Newsletter/1. It went for one issue and fizzled. The reason for having it on meta is that so much of the health activity is international.

I propose to move the newsletter here. I think this is best for reasons including the following:

• more people watch content on English Wikipedia
• the newsletter itself will be all English for the foreseeable future
• most community organization for developing health content happens in English
• all persons currently involved in developing it are primary involved in English Wikipedia
• formatting templates for improving the appearance of the publication are available on English Wikipedia but not on Meta
• I propose to transfer the management of the newsletter from "Wiki Project Med Foundation" to just English WikiProject Medicine

Who has reasons why this should be on Meta? There are no other options for putting this anywhere except on English or Meta, right? Blue Rasberry (talk) 18:23, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

I see no reasons for the "news letter" not to accept content from other languages. For example I know that the Hebrew community is working on some medical related efforts as is the Spanish community.

Otherwise sounds reasonable. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 19:56, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

I slightly prefer using Meta, but think that using an approach that makes the newletter successful is most important. So if Wikipedia English works better for now, then hosting it here is fine with me. I would like us to include international topics, and encourage translation of the content if possible. Sydney Poore/FloNight♥♥♥♥ 19:23, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

I disagree strongly here. Wikimedia is a global project, Wiki Project Med Foundation is a global project, our efforts with Cochrane are global, James' visits to Iran and Italy and Nepal, my visits to Canada and our upcoming visits to Cochrane in India all suggest that this is more than just an English Language effort. That more community organization happen on English Wikipedia is part of the problem. We can't solve global issues without global community. CFCF's proposed medical translation community organizing IEG grant is explicitly designed to address this and is instrumental to Doc James' efforts with Translators without borders. Formatting templates are minor and aren't really needed to produce a good looking, readable newsletter. Considering that few editors will be actually producing the newsletter, I don't see how watchlisting is so important and many of us I assume check out meta watchlists semi-regularly anyway. Lane, you might want to set up a separate English WPMED newsletter, but I don't want Wiki Project Med Foundation's newsletter to be English only and on English Wikipedia. It's simply not consistent with our organization's scope and mission of delivering medical content to every person. Besides, the newsletter is delivered locally--where it's hosted is not that relevant and we will link to it. What matters is that we can deliver it globally and that it reflects our global efforts. To me, that reasons it should be on meta where WPMEDF is located. Cheers, Ocaasi ^{t | c} 20:01, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes excellent points. We want to become less English centric not more. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 10:20, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

They are some reasonable points, but I think we are confusing WPMF (the "we" to whom you refer) and the intended audience of the newsletter, down on the EN-WP. --LT910001 (talk) 21:41, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

I am very confused about the role of WPMEDF, its organisation, structure, the 'wikiness' in terms of opennesss and ability to contribute to overall direction and transparency of decision-making. I do not know what activities it goes on, what areas overlap and what don't, and how it relates to the content of WPMED, so I apologise but I've refactored my comment several times as i gather my thoughts. There are two separate proposals that I make below. --LT910001 (talk) 04:00, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Addressed a bunch of questions here [1] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 10:20, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarifications. On an additional note, I am unhappy about Ocassi copying the content of this newsletter onto WPMF on meta without any discussion or attribution, which from my understanding should be provided as these are hosted on different venues (meta, wiki). As a board member of the WPMF, this could be taken the WPMF co-opting this newsletter without any discussion. Ocaasi does some stellar work, and I know that this was just enthusiastic, but as an board member of the WPMF will probably need to be more considerate in future actions. I fully support the agenda of the WPMF but I feel there is a lack of distinction between it and WPMED currently, and that can be seen in this discussion. I think the best option is that this newsletter documents anything relevant to the local EN-WP community and that the WPMF maintains and creates its own, and that at a future date they both are merged. --LT910001 (talk) 21:52, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

I think there is general consensus that it would be nice to have a newsletter reporting about local WPMED issues, whether combined with WPMF or separate. I, as a member of WPMED will be writing and distributing a local newsletter and I hope this does not cause too much consternation. The WPMF has had a year to release another edition and I hope this stimulates continued released. Locally, I am happy to design and maintain such a newsletter and hopefully do so with many other editors over a longer period. I encourage WPMF to create and maintain their own newsletter. There will be some overlap, but I suspect a significant amount of uniquely relevant content. Instead of arguing about hypotheticals, I suggest both newsletters are created concurrently. As we they find their feet we can then continue with this discussion about merging them. I have added the following to the newsletter about the WPMF in this regard:

What is the Wiki Project Med Foundation? The Wiki Project Med Foundation is an affilitated "thematic organisation" designed to engage the many communities of medical wiki editors, with the lofty aim of providing medical content in all languages, to everyone. Interested users can sign up. In the future, this newsletter will be reporting on WPMF some activities and collaborations that affect the English-language WPMED. A concurrent newsletter, the stethoscope will be released documenting the activities at WPMF.

--LT910001 (talk) 06:24, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Proposal 1: Two newsletters

The two newsletters should be kept separate for a number of reasons: --LT910001 (talk) 04:00, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

1. WPMED and WPMF are separate entities (this letter should not represent the WPMEDF, and I don't think it claims to do so).
2. This is an effective venue to engage, document and communicate with the local community, and no such venue exists providing this regular communication
3. There are only a few users aware of what's going on at the WPMEDF level and it does, undoubtedly, get less attention that WPMED.
4. I am uneasy equating WPMED with WPMF by having the same newsletter, as the organisational structure and mission is not the same and I do not believe there has been such a discussion in the past.
5. There are a number of issues (eg discussions, good articles etc.) which may be covered at a local level but are not as relevant at a global level.

The newsletter should be global in scope. We should accept submissions from non English speaking countries and in non English languages so agree it is better on meta. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 10:20, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Proposal 2: One newsletter

I see this newsletter has already been transcluded in full here: [2] and have proposed a different solution below. No sense having two competing newsletters. The alternate solution is: --LT910001 (talk) 04:00, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

1. We have a single newsletter for WPMEDF and WPMED
2. Newsletter is primarily hosted on meta
3. A notification is delivered on meta and here per the participation list.
4. This newsletter is arranged like the Signpost and the Bugle of MILHIST, with 'Bureaus' or subsections
5. We have two subsections: "Global WPMEDF news" and "Local EN-community news", directed to separate pages
   1. Any other active language projects can add their subsections as desired or as these communities develop
6. The "Local EN-community news" and local sections are hosted on the local Wikis

I do not support this solution for the reasons above, but propose it so that other users can comment. --LT910001 (talk) 04:08, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Is see this as a better solution. We need collaboration between languages. Medicine is a global topic not a regional one. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 10:20, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

All right. Jmh649, I think we are getting a little carried away by our aspirations in terms of global involvement. I think that is a very reasonable goal but that there don't seem to be any indications about this involvement right now. How about we release an issue or two here while the WPMF engages the local communities and see who will contribute and crafts a newsletter of its own? This newsletter is intended to be monthly, so as the communities engage, if they engage, we can discuss that at a later date. --LT910001 (talk) 21:32, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

There are a few other language communities which are fairly active when it comes to medicine. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 22:34, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, that was a little unclear. What I mean is that there are no foreign-language contributors to the newsletter right now. I certainly invite these communities to participate, but I would rather get a newsletter going and add and modify it as we go along than delay the process until all the language communities are contacted etc. This present newsletter should focus on the local WPMED community and WPMF is welcome to engage with local communities, create and maintain its own newsletter. After some time, the two can be merged. This I think is the best solution because it is a lot less hassle to do it here focusing on the local WPMED. At some future date, the local newsletter can be annexed by the WPMF newsletter. --LT910001 (talk) 06:02, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Proposal 3

1. One newsletter for anyone who feels like submitting content
2. All submitted content published or linked until and unless the consensus of editors is to leave it out, and regardless of WPMEDF, WPMED, or language
3. Notifications can be designed for all queues for which there is demand, meaning English and Meta to start
4. On English Wikipedia, because if it is on Meta we cannot format it with Signpost or Bugle formatting templates unless we have someone transfer the non-universal templates which is not trivial, and also because many people will not go to meta
5. No planning for subsections, but new papers are sort of derived from previous ones
6. English news gets priority for as long as the contributors write in English. Right now we have no identified non-English contributors in this newsletter project. When we do we make any concession to make non-English speakers comfortable to contribute.
7. Newsletter is nominally "owned" by volunteers from the WikiProject Medicine community. Right now, LT90001 is the editor and makes the calls on the project.
8. This is intended to be the low-stress option.

Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:29, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

I have been the major contributor and impetus for this newsletter thus far, but I will respect decisions made by consensus. --LT910001 (talk) 21:41, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Overlap

There will be some overlap either between sections of the same newsletter or the two newsletters. I propose:--LT910001 (talk) 04:08, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

1. The local WPMED newsletter covers all issues that may affect the EN-Wiki (including publications and relevant WPMF representations and collaborations that affect the English-language WP).
2. The global newsletter, released on a less frequent basis, covers WPMF activities. Major publications are covered, but not all publications relating solely to the EN-WP.

Release format

How are we to release this newsletter? We may:

• Provide a notification only
• Provide a notification with a brief summary of each section
• Transclude

I am in favour of transcluding, as the newsletter is not too long and will have an opt-out message (see below), but I don't know what other users think. --LT910001 (talk) 21:50, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

There is also the possibility of having two separate mailing lists: one with a simple notification ("A new edition of [the newsletter] has been released...") and one that is a full transclusion. --LT910001 (talk) 21:50, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

If we are transcluding, we will need to transclude under a level 2 general heading and make all headings here level three, so that it works properly with user talk pages. An issue to consider. --LT910001 (talk) 21:50, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

• Notification only I think this is what other newsletters do. Some of them list the article titles with links to the article. LT910001, I am not sure that I have ever gotten any subscription publication as long as this newsletter is now. Have you? I feel like it is 5-6x longer than most notices. Blue Rasberry (talk) 11:57, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Not this long. I've been trying pretty hard to get it visually shorter! (changing headings, ...) I am happy with the length, as with the titles it isn't that difficult to read (we could consider adding a TOC at the left or right or a little navbox or something) It is the first issue so I expect it will be longer than subsequent issues. --LT910001 (talk) 22:30, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

I would have expected subsequent issues to only get longer. For this issue I have no preference - we can send out anything and if people complain then we can do it another way. Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:18, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Recipient list

I think it is reasonable to send this to active WP:MED users as identified by our participation list. This needs to be formatted to a list suitable for multimessage delivery. Depending on the release format, we will also need to add an opt-out message either on the newsletter (at the bottom) or in the delivery notification. --LT910001 (talk) 21:50, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

• USE WP:MED participant list The participants signed up for something. A newsletter for the project seems like a reasonable use of the WP:MASSMESSAGE tool to those who signed up. Blue Rasberry (talk) 11:57, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
• WP:MED is a good start but I would like to include other folks that are interested in the medical content on Wikimedia projects. Sydney Poore/FloNight♥♥♥♥ 19:23, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
  • That is a good point. What we can do is post notifications that the first edition has been released at related WPs (Anatomy, Physiology, Neuroscience, Biology) and a central venue (Village pump / misc.), and possibly notify the Signpost. Users can then add themselves to the mailing list if they are interested. --LT910001 (talk) 22:30, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

FloNight the first edition has been released. It was delivered to slightly less than 500 people. I have posted on WT:MED but that's it. Do you suggest we also post elsewhere? I have been a little reticent to post in public venues, as the number of users receiving the notification is already so high.--LT910001 (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Issue

Currently I've put the issue as #2 in homage to the hibernating WPMEDF letter, however this may be causing some confusion as documented above. Should we change it to #1? --LT910001 (talk) 22:31, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Why number at all? We could have archives sorted by date, name the issues by month and year, then have a tool at the bottom to navigate to the next or previous issue in all cases. I am opposed to numbering of any sort - it does not have a lot of value. I do think that the archives of this paper should link to the first medical newsletter. This is assuming that we sort the distinction that the other newsletter was for WPMF, and this one is for WikiProject Medicine on English. Other languages can participate if they wish but in the past many years most medical discussions happen on English Wikipedia Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:14, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Agree by date is better than by number. I would not be surprised if other languages participated eventually. Especially if we invited them. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 15:40, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks I've made this change. --LT910001 (talk) 22:09, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Release of first edition

I am aiming for release of this newsletter by 5 June 2014. I will ask for a mass message to be sent to the names on this list: Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Newsletter/Mailing list. I will ask for this message to be sent out (and invite users to comment or change it):

Title: The Pulse (WP:MED newsletter) June 2014

The first edition of The Pulse has been released. The Pulse will be a regular newsletter documenting the goings-on at WPMED, including ongoing collaborations, discussions, articles, and each edition will have a special focus. That newsletter is here.

The newsletter has been sent to the talk pages of WP:MED members bearing the {{User WPMed}} template. To opt-out, please leave a message here or simply remove your name from the mailing list. Because this is the first issue, we are still finding out feet. Things like the layout and content may change in subsequent editions. Please let us know what you think, and if you have any ideas for the future, by leaving a message here.

I will be transferring the newsletter to Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Newsletter/1 on the day before it's released. --LT910001 (talk) 01:28, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

 Done --LT910001 (talk) 00:06, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Whoops. It has been moved to Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Newsletter/June 2014 per our above discussion. --LT910001 (talk) 01:20, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Delivery notification

The following was delivered to users for the first edition:

The Pulse (WP:MED newsletter) June 2014

The first edition of The Pulse has been released. The Pulse will be a regular newsletter documenting the goings-on at WPMED, including ongoing collaborations, discussions, articles, and each edition will have a special focus. That newsletter is here.

The newsletter has been sent to the talk pages of WP:MED members bearing the {{User WPMed}} template. To opt-out, please leave a message here or simply remove your name from the mailing list. Because this is the first issue, we are still finding out feet. Things like the layout and content may change in subsequent editions. Please let us know what you think, and if you have any ideas for the future, by leaving a message here.

Posted by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:24, 5 June 2014 (UTC) on behalf of WikiProject Medicine.

Continued

I do not feel this is clear or visually appealing, the link to the newsletter is a little hidden, and it doesn't clearly state (in my mind) what the content of a particular edition will contain. Would other users like to have a go at editing the above template to make it more suitable? I am open to any and all suggestions, and invite users to post alternatives below: --LT910001 (talk) 01:22, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Update: I've created a separate page: Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Newsletter/Notification, where changes can be trialled and invite all users to contribute. --LT910001 (talk) 01:35, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Ping to Biosthmors, who has not only expressed a past interest in newsletter creation, but also been involved in creating a graphically appealing interface for WP:MED. --LT910001 (talk) 01:35, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Archiving

I've added automatic archiving to this page. Threads with no replies in more than 30 days will be automatically archived. I hope this is alright. --LT910001 (talk) 01:26, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Copy editing needed for July 2014 issue (2)

The sentence,

One interpretation of his reason for leaving could be that he was dissatisfied with the Wikimedia' communities to resolve disputes.

doesn't make sense to me. I think either processes or actions or both need to be inserted. Could be? If it could be than it is an interpretation. Comma placement? Was his beef with WM of WP, to my understanding it was a WP issue.

Proposed text:

One interpretation of his reason for leaving is he was dissatisfied with the Wikipedia community's processes and actions in attempting to resolve disputes.

Later in same article the use of Wikimedia. Does all of wikimedia weigh in on "good" or "featured" articles? I have not seem the Commons or Wiktionary involved, much less Wikivoyage.

The sentences,

The question still remains of whether Wikipedia should link to this site in any case, and if so, how. Many people like this site with each having some issues.

doesn't make sense to me.

Proposed text:

A question remains if Wikipedia should link to this site generally, and if so, how. A number of editors consider links to this site valuable, others less so. A number of salient issues have been raised both for and against a general practice of including a link to emedicine in infoboxes or in the external links section of medical articles.

• Retirements of WikiProject Medicine members

Formerly 98 also announced a decision to retire from editing Wikipedia. It seems a heated discussion of the reliability of a source included characterizations that were the straw that broke the camel's back. Formerly 98 also expressed dissatisfaction with the application of policy on Wikipedia, feeling that it is biased.

I have also boldly made some copy edits I think will be noncontroversial. - - MrBill3 (talk) 08:33, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

MrBill3 Thanks for this. It is a big help to the newsletter and I am encouraged that you like the idea of a newsletter enough to develop it.

Formerly 98's page blanking happened in July and to keep this newsletter more manageable, I was thinking to have it report things which happen during calendar months. I will put that user's story in the next month newsletter, and for now just post on the med page about this user's situation. Blue Rasberry (talk) 11:03, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Bluerasberry no problem. If you post to my talk page a day or two ahead I will try and take a look at basic copy editing next month. Not to split hairs but F98 blanked his user page June 30, but covering it next month seems OK to me. - - MrBill3 (talk) 02:59, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Published?

Is this finalized now? The Wikimania event is now booked etc, & the page is at https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pre-Conference:_Medical_Wikipedians. I'd rejig to that if I can. Wiki CRUK John (talk) 17:57, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Wiki CRUK John Yes, it is finalized, except that Jmh649 and CFCF just published Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Translation task force/Newsletter. I posted on their talk page to see if this can be a supporting effort to their newsletter. They put a lot more more into the layout of theirs, and I wonder about the need to have two newsletters for medicine. Blue Rasberry (talk) 01:51, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes IMO a single newletter is best. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 02:56, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Translation task force/Newsletter -- -- CFCF 🍌 (email) 08:11, 14 July 2014 (UTC)