Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Archive65

Home city location for the New York Islanders

I sincerely believe the home city location for the New York Islanders listed at National Hockey League should be listed as Brooklyn. This is because the Islanders play their home ice hockey games now at the Barclays Center. According to the Islanders' Contact Us page (seen here), the physical address for the Barclays Center is: 620 Atlantic Ave., Brooklyn, NY 11217. I sincerely believe that Wikipedia should list the home city location for all professional sports teams based on a specific team's home arena/stadium address. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 19:49, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Brooklyn is a borough. The article is correct since NYC is the city in which the Islanders play their games. Canuck^{89 (what's up?)} 20:10, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Why should the home city location for the Islanders be any different than from the National Basketball Association (NBA)'s Brooklyn Nets? Both teams play in the Barclays Center, which has a fixed address, so both teams' home cities should be listed in their respective articles as Brooklyn, IMO. Another source for the Barclays Center address can be found at the arena's website, seen here. Yes, I understand that Brooklyn is a borough of New York City, but the location should still be listed by the arena or stadium address for that particular team. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 20:24, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

You may change the NBA team's location to New York City, New York, if you so desire. GoodDay (talk) 20:26, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Also, we have a consistency issue with hockey: the New York Rangers' city is not listed as Manhattan, New York. —C.Fred (talk) 20:41, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

You act like the NBA team was always listed like that...you just changed it. -DJSasso (talk) 01:06, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

I would note there is a discussion about this ongoing on the Talk:National Hockey League page. -DJSasso (talk) 01:07, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

"Hockey pool"

FYI, there's a suggestion that a merger of hockey pool into fantasy hockey should be done, for the discussion, see talk:hockey pool -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 03:53, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

List of family relations in the NHL

There's a bit of an edit war occuring at that article. More input may be needed. GoodDay (talk) 05:48, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

He was blocked by an admin. -DJSasso (talk) 13:56, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Slovenian ice hockey article titles

So I have been looking at some articles regarding Slovenian ice hockey recently and I noticed a couple of issues regarding the names of the articles here on Wikipedia. The Slovenian Ice Hockey League is known as the "Državno prvenstvo" on the national federations page which translates to "National Championship". Slovenian Ice Hockey Cup is known simple as "Pokal Slovenije" on the national federations page which translates to "Slovenian Cup".

The Slovenian Ice Hockey League article title is simple incorrect and I think it needs to be changed (and all its sub-articles) to the Slovenian National Championship. Changing the Slovenian Ice Hockey Cup to Slovenian Cup (ice hockey) to me makes more sense and is more inline with the naming conventions we have for other national ice hockey cups. However it could of been named "Slovenian Ice Hockey Cup" to be more inline with the format used for the Slovenian Football Cup article (Slovenian Cup currently redirects here).

Thoughts? Salavat (talk) 13:24, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

• What is the commonly rendered translation in English-language sources? That's the guide, not necessarily what constitutes the most accurate translation. Ravenswing 15:08, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Well after a bit of searching I found some English source mentions though they are not of the best quality so it has made establishing a common English name tricky.

• Slovenian photo agency Sportida calls it the "Slovenian National Championship", [1]
• The European Rookie Cup calls it the "Slovenian Championship", [2]
• Eurohockey.com calls it the "Slovenian Championship", [3]
• And for what its worth (given the lack of decent sources I found and even though its a forum so doesn't count) the International Hockey Forums call it the "Slovenian Championship", [4]

I couldn't find a mention on the Cup or any mention of the competition names on IIHF but I do know I did not find one mention of it being called a league. Salavat (talk) 16:35, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

List of current NHL captains and alternate captains

Would someone update the article, as the Leafs have changed their alternate captains from Lupul & Robidas to Bozak & Hunwick. I'm restricted from removing/replacing Robidas' entry. GoodDay (talk) 17:00, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Done. Deadman137 (talk) 19:42, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Roster and Championship Templates

I'm wondering why there aren't current roster templates that can go on player pages for hockey players, at least professional ones, like there are for most of the other major sports and also templates for championship teams again like for most of the other major sports. I'm wondering if these are things we could start doing as hockey seems to be the one sport that doesn't have these on Wikipedia. Eh Oh Canada (talk) 00:45, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

If you are referring to templates like Super Bowl championship navigational boxes and World Series championship navigational boxes, they are controversial: there is no general consensus overall across all sports articles to do these. Consensus here at WikiProject Ice Hockey and Wikipedia:WikiProject Football has historically been not to include them on ice hockey and football articles, respectively (see this June 2009 archived TFD discussion and this one from Sep 2009 for example about the arguments for and against these kind of championship templates). Zzyzx11 (talk) 05:16, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Is it the same kind of thing with the roster navboxes to put on player pages?Eh Oh Canada (talk) 06:31, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes basically WP:NAVBOX tells you not to use navboxes that are just tangentially related. A number of projects ignore this with local consensuses and use them. The ice hockey project has not. -DJSasso (talk) 12:49, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

AfD

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Erez Eizenman, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stuart Stefan Joeykai (talk) 17:37, 8 November 2015 (UTC) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bryan JurynecJoeykai (talk) 07:27, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Owners in team infoboxes

Really not a hugely important issue here but something I figured I'd throw out there. All of you know how often vandalism leads to the "owner" line in a team's infobox changed to something silly. I don't know that there's much that can be done to prevent that, since we're not going to semi-protect every team's article purely to avoid those changes. A thought crossed my mind about possibly putting the infoboxes for each team into a new Template page. Ex: Template:Dallas Stars infobox - and then have the template transcluded onto the team's main page. The template pages could easily be semi-protected indefinitely, as they don't get changed all that often in the first place. I know this is a pretty minor concern, and this may be a bad idea so feel free to shoot it right down if there's problems with it. Gloss 15:04, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

That would be a single use template and put up for deletion almost immediately. -DJSasso (talk) 12:44, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I've been trying for some time to get an edit filter created for this exact vandalism. The backlog there is sloooooooooow. 00:54, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

HHOF member nationalities

What's the criteria for someone to be from a certain country or not? I'm wondering because, for example, I see Mikita listed as being Canadian only, Gardiner and Hall are listed as Canada/UK, and Dunderdale is listed as Australian only. Mikita and Dunderdale were both born in a different country but moved to Canada at an early age and learned how to play hockey there, just like Gardiner and Hall, yet the latter have their birth country and Canada in the nationality section whereas Mikita only has the country where he learned to play the game in and Dunderdale only has his birth country. Any consensus on how to approach this problem?

Should nationality be: country of birth only, country trained only or country of birth + country trained? Heroman26 (talk) 06:05, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

It is usually what they would have represented internationally if known but suffers from people coming and changing them all the time. -DJSasso (talk) 12:46, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

What do we do with players that never had the chance to participate internationally? Should Gardiner, Hall, Dunderdale etc. be listed as Canadian only since they pretty much have no relation to the game of hockey with the UK or whatever their birth country is? I'm willing to change the nationalites and keep a watch over them if we determine a criteria. Heroman26 (talk) 00:41, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

That is where the "would have represented" comes in. Not necessarily that they did represent. But I think listing both is also fair for something like the HOF. I probably wouldn't do both on other articles though. -DJSasso (talk) 13:46, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

OK, just to be clear, we're supposed to list country of birth + country the player "would have represented" on the HHOF page? Heroman26 (talk) 05:10, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Speculative history: Retroactive Conn Smythe

I have started a discussion on the talk page for Retroactive Conn Smythe regarding the notability of this topic. Feedback is welcome. isaacl (talk) 04:27, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Major achievements in hockey by nation

found this bizarre article, don't see how it belongs but was looking for some other opinions.18abruce (talk) 21:57, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

It is a bit of mish mash since they really are all different sports albeit under the same family of sports. Probably not overly notable because I doubt there are sources that talk about all those things in one big group. -DJSasso (talk) 15:42, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

WP:NOR - especially WP:SYNTH - comes immediately to mind. The ranking system is arbitrary and, despite the fact they mostly contain the world "hockey" in their sport's names, linking several separate sports in this fashion serves no purpose. I could buy a list of championships in all IIHF (for example) sanctioned tournaments, but this is just too random. Resolute 17:12, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Agreed ... and aside from anything else, I reject the premise that athletic achievement has to be certified by the IOC to be notable. I'll AfD it now. (And done.) Ravenswing 21:23, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Brian Lawton

Couple of editors have been scrubbing sourced, less than flattering details from Brian Lawton, including the notion of him being a draft bust. Maybe some other eyes want to have a look. Echoedmyron (talk) 14:41, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

One editor in particular, claiming that 2 SI articles were offline, keeps removing what they support plus much more info they apparently don't like, even after I updated refs with Archived links. Echoedmyron (talk) 16:46, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

"In progress" stats

I was looking at the pages for a couple of coaches tonight and noticed that, as a part of their record, stats were being kept for the 15/16 season "in progress". My understanding was we didn't maintain in season stats in that manner for anyone. But I wanted to double check before I deleted anything. GLG GLG (talk) 08:01, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

You can go right ahead and delete the information in question as your assumption about in season stats is correct. Deadman137 (talk) 13:51, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Bob Scurfield

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bob Scurfield Joeykai (talk) 21:49, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Doug Baran

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Doug Baran Joeykai (talk) 18:18, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Death of Dale Anderson

Dale Anderson (ice hockey) is dead on December 6, 2015 (Society for International Hockey Research)(SIHR) --> http://www.losthockey.com/__a/members/deaths_by_year.cfm?year=2015&month=12 Can someone put it in his article ? Thanks. --Danielvis08 (talk) 21:20, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Edited accordingly. -Uncleben85 (talk) 22:16, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Status of Pascal Dupuis

There is a conversation I am trying to start on the 2015–16 NHL transactions talk page about whether to include Pascal Dupuis in the retired category of the page. As of right now, I am leaving Rusted AutoParts's edits in place to avoid an edit war, however I would like to start a dialogue on the topic that will also create consensus for the future. Please read the existing viewpoints on that page, and share your input. I feel the more input we get the better. -Uncleben85 (talk) 21:49, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Mārcis Zembergs

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mārcis Zembergs Joeykai (talk) 03:07, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Tom Squires

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tom Squires Joeykai (talk) 07:16, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Sam Roberts

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sam Roberts (ice hockey) Joeykai (talk) 17:19, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Auston Matthews birthplace

IHDB and elite prospects list him as being born in Scottsdale, however ESPN disagrees. This article states that, "Auston was actually born in the San Francisco Bay area, but two months later the family was in Arizona". I was hoping someone would have something more specific as a place of birth, and additional documentation to disagree with online databases.18abruce (talk) 03:33, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Well the ESPN article is the first that's come up, and considering the NHL has had several articles on him being born in Arizona, it seems suspicious that it only comes out now that he isn't actually from Arizona. I'd go with the majority now, and unless others back ESPN's claim, I'd be skeptical of it. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:39, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

ECHL

Over the years we have had several people attempt to, without references, call the ECHL a 'AA' league. It is not, unless hockey started classifying minor leagues as baseball does and I have missed it. An IP did this twice at the article which i have reverted, and then magically a new user showed up and did it again and then is going to ECHL team pages and doing the same thing. I request a few eyes on this, thanks. Dbrodbeck (talk) 20:37, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

While hockey in general doesn't use such a classification, the ECHL does refer to itself as the "Premier 'AA' Hockey League" right on its website. That may be part of the issue with this. Kaiser matias (talk) 02:41, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Yeah I think that is what causes it. Oh and I am the premiere NHL 16 xbox one player in the whole world. Dbrodbeck (talk) 04:56, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

I've never been opposed to a statement along the lines of "Despite the fact that hockey has never attempted any organized system of baseball-style classifications for minor leagues, the ECHL describes itself in its literature as 'the Premier 'AA' Hockey League.'" That much is accurate. I remain relentlessly opposed to minor league marketing departments stating the same as an objective fact. Ravenswing 05:18, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Definitely seems like the best way to go about it. Note the ECHL uses that phrase, but hockey in general doesn't. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:40, 28 December 2015 (UTC)