Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hungary/Archive 4

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This page is an Archive of the discussions from WikiProject Hungary talk page (Discussion page). (January 2011 - December 2011) - Please Do not edit!

Merge discussion for Nikola VII Zrinski or Miklós Zrínyi

There is ongoing merge discussion here, about Nikola VII Zrinski or Miklós Zrínyi. Any constructive suggestions are welcome. Kebeta (talk) 17:08, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Merge between Kingdom of Hungary (1920–1946) and Hungary between the World Wars

User:Dbachmann tagged the latter for merge on september 6, 2008: [1]. I have notified WikiProject Hungary and Former Countries. Please discuss here. All input welcome. Thank you. ^walk victor falk ^talk 23:16, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Gyula Vikidál at AfD

This article was previously unreferenced and pretty dreadful. But from what I can see of the Hungarian press coverage, he might be notable. I have added several articles as references. Is there anyone who can read Hungarian and is familiar with Hungarian news sources who could help evaluate this? Voceditenore (talk) 15:31, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

List of Hungarian comic awards and prizes

I'd like to ask for your opinion on this one:
I'm planning to make a list called List of Hungarian comic awards, where I list all the winners and nominees of the following three awards: Alfabéta prize, Zórád Ernő prize, Képregény.net annual audience polls. Since the topic is quite marginal, I thought of listing these three on one list page. But again some might find it confusing and as I noticed, usually one prize gets its own page. (I personally would vote for the merged version) Zoli79 (talk) 21:57, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

article "Magyar Tribes" - problems

The 'flowery language' of much of this article is not NPOV, and doesn't read as following Wiki guidelines. There seems to be a great need of many more inline citations, too. HammerFilmFan (talk) 02:41, 10 July 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan

Paul Lendvai

This was raised at BLP/N, but it could surely use some native speakers. FuFoFuEd (talk) 12:34, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

writing a date in Hungarian.

I am wandering if someone can help me write a "date" in Hungarian. It is August 4, 2011. I would like even the symbols used in the Arabic form. Any & Everything would be helpful. It it my 1st grandchild's b-day.

Thank you so much 99.125.134.112 (talk) 21:18, 28 August 2011 (UTC)Tamara

I think that it is 2011.08.04. or 2011-08-04, but you can also check in the Date and time notation in Hungary article. -- Koertefa (talk) 08:45, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Albert Szent-György

Would you mind having a quick look at Talk:Albert Szent-Györgyi#Pronunciation. Thanks Agathoclea (talk) 15:24, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

couldn't find request an assessment page

so I'm just posting this here: Miklós Jancsó - partially expanded and rewritten.--66.212.78.220 (talk) 20:30, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Open page move discussion

• (Discuss) –Golden Team → Golden Team of Hungary (football) Kauffner (talk) 01:01, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Agnes Rapai

Her article was raised by an IP on WP:BLPN. The article is messy and was created by the subject herself. It has since been prodded for deletion, but, honestly, I'm not sure if she's notable or not, mainly because I don't know Hungarian and I don't know Hungarian sources. Clearly, the article could be better written, but it's pointless to spend time on that if the writer isn't notable. Could someone from this project take a look at the article? Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:18, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Asking for help

On the Wikipedia page Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Croatia#Information it takes a while exhausting debate on the writing and writing at all of minority languages in articles about settlements in Croatia. Please if you have time, look at the page and try to help us in forming some kind of agreement. We will highly appreciate your effort.--MirkoS18 (talk) 23:13, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Possible anachronisms regarding historical Hungary flags

I was working on a specific FIFA World Cup-related list when I noticed some very large inconsistencies with the usage of the various historical flags of Hungary across the various articles.

Year	Qualifying	Finals
1934	state flag	1940 flag
1938	1940 flag
1950	none	none
1954	1949-1956 flag	1949-1956 flag
1958	1949-1956 flag for games up to 15.9.1957 today's flag for a game on 10.11.1957	unofficial 1957-1989 flag
1962	today's flag
1966
1970		none
1974		unofficial 1957-1989 flag (it only indicates a referee's nationality)
1978		unofficial 1957-1989 flag
1982		today's flag (main article) unofficial 1957-1989 flag (article on a specific match)
1986		today's flag
1990 onwards		today's flag or none

And then the Hungarian Wikipedia uses the civil ensign for tournaments since and including 1958, although its tooltip displays "Magyar 1957-2000".

I did see it saying at Flag of Hungary that "the official flag of Hungary has been a pure red-white-green tricolour since 1957", but could anyone please shed some more light on the issue so I could fix anything that's wrong? --Theurgist (talk) 00:41, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

I received a reply by User:Thehoboclown on my talk page. I'm copy-pasting Thehoboclown's comment here, because some additional problems seem to have emerged, and I believe this discussion page is of greater interest to Hungarian contributors than my talk :)

(start of quote)

Hello!

First of all I would like to express my happiness that someone is paying so much attention to fix all these problems and make the articles as tidy as possible. Thanks! :)

I'm not an expert of the topic, but made some research, so, from 1920 to 1945 Hungary used the tricolor with the coat of arms of the kingdom, which is similar to the current one, so the usage of 1940 flag is just correct.

Talking about the situation between 1949–1956, Hungary became one of the communist states in the Eastern Bloc, and the constitution was modified as the following "68. § A Magyar Népköztársaság zászlaja piros-fehér-zöldszínű, középen a Magyar Népköztársaság címerével." ("68. § The flag of the People's Republic of Hungary is red-white-green, with the coat of arms of the People's Republic of Hungary in the middle." So, the 1949–1956 flag looks okay as well.

For a brief period in the 1956 Hungarian Revolution the coat of arms were cut off from the flag, however, it can't be taken as an official flag. After the revolution it was planned that the CoA without the crown wll be used, but the constitution finally approved the plain tricolor: „68. § A Magyar Népköztársaság zászlaja piros-fehér-zöld színű.” („68. § The flag of the People's Republic of Hungary is red-white-green.” This appeared in the Magyar Közlöny (kozlony.magyarorszag.hu/pdf/1370; page 24), Hungary's Official Bulletin on 23 May 1957, so I guess the matches played before that date should use the 1949–56 flag, while the events happened after should stick to the new one. Hope this helps.

Regards, Thehoboclown (talk) 14:14, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

(end of quote)

I am grateful to Thehoboclown for the information and for the kind words, and I'm going to take care of the Hungary flags in the World Cup and European Championship articles. To summarise, Thehoboclown is recommending usage of the 1940 flag for pre-WW2 tournaments, the 1949–1956 flag for games before 23 May 1957, and the contemporary flag for games from that date on.

But see the options that Template:Country data Hungary is adjusted to offer. The alias "1920" produces the state flag, which, except for having different proportions, is no different than the 1940 flag (and therefore perfectly fits the description of a "tricolor with the coat of arms with the kingdom"). The 1940 flag is produced with the alias "1940"; though it's hardly an absolute rule, I've observed that aliases usually represent the date from which a particular flag version had been used.

While posting the question yesterday, I had forgotten that Olympic Games articles also display historical national flags. See Template:Infobox Olympics Hungary, and follow the link under any year to view an article with an infobox and a specific variant of the flag. The variants are generated by {{Country flag IOC alias HUN}}, you have to open it in the edit mode to see them. They go thus:

• 1896 through 1912: 1867–1918 flag (there were no FIFA World Cups that early).
• 1924 through 1936: civil ensign. The civil ensign of Hungary is the plain tricolour, with proportions different from those of the contemporary national flag, but otherwise identical to it.
• 1948: 1946–49 and 1956–57 flag.
• 1952 through 1956 Winter Olympics (which concluded on 5.2.1956): 1949–56 flag.
• 1956 Summer Olympics (which commenced on 22.11.1956): civil ensign again.
• 1960 onwards: today's flag.

And, the state flag ("1920") and the 1940 flag are nowhere in it. There is, of course, no guarantee that those are the very correct variants, they could be in need of fixing per Thehoboclown's recommendations, but this does create some extra mess. --Theurgist (talk) 00:29, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Speaking about the Olympics, what I could done is checking the old photos of the Games, as these appeared for me as the most authentic sources in this case. My observations are the following:

• I could not find anything before the World War I, therefore can't say anything about the flag in the early period of the Olympic Games.
• In 1936 (and concluding from it, during the period 1924–36), according to the photo of a horse polo match, a flag with the bigger coat of arm was in use, listed as the 1940 flag here.
• In the 1956 Summer Olympics, as can seen in the marching ceremony (in the middle of the page), the flag with the so-called Kossuth coat of arm was used, which runs under the name (1946–49 and 1956–57 flag) in wiki.
• I was unable to find anything from 1960, but at the 1964 Games in Tokyo already the plain tricolor was in use, and so is today.

Probably one have better or more images, where flags and their variats are easy to recognize, or have a better source/idea/knowlegde. – Thehoboclown (talk) 19:53, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, the World Cup and European Championship articles are, as far as I can tell, done. All Olympics articles can be done very easily, because Template:Country flag IOC alias HUN looks like being the sole source supplying a great many articles with flags, with the help of some other templates like FlagIOCathlete, FlagIOCmedalist, FlagIOCteam, etc. So one only has to modify the flag variants at Template:Country flag IOC alias HUN in order to achieve some effect one desires. --Theurgist (talk) 06:11, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

I think I figured out why the civil ensign goes with a caption "Magyar 1957-2000" on the Hungarian Wikipedia. Here's why: Flag of Hungary#Exact Description and Legislature, and also "The proportion of the flag is 1:2 since 2000". It's odd that they're using the same variant for after 2000 too, e.g. here. If the pre-2000 validity of what is now the civil ensign can be unambiguously confirmed, we shall have to change some flags again. Also, I realised that the nomenclature of flag files at Commons and their descriptions can sometimes only reflect the current statuses (when they have them) of those flags, so for example a formerly official flag can be named as "alternative" if it's alternative today. And there remains the problem about what the actual difference is between this variant ("1920"; I was referring to it as "state flag" above) and this one ("1940"). They differ only in proportions, and have the same colours and the same coat of arms. Oddly, lots of articles were displaying the "1920" flag for the 1934 World Cup and the "1940" flag for the 1938 World Cup. I replaced the "1920" flags with "1940" ones following your advice and seeking consistency. At FIFA World Cup#Results there still is the "1920" flag for 1938 too, but I'm going to change it right now, because only the "1940" variant is there at the galleries of both Flag of Hungary and hu:Magyarország zászlaja. By the way, the "1920" variant was added to the template with this edit. Any further help will be more than welcome, as I'm no vexillology expert, and my practical Hungarian skills are not up to much either. --Theurgist (talk) 13:09, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Kisber

Hello Hungary. I have created the page Kisber and added it to your project as the subject is probably the second most famous Hungarian racehorse in history. Tigerboy1966 (talk) 19:10, 21 December 2011 (UTC)