Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Frank Zappa

Project started

As you can see, the draft versions of a project page and project talk page tag are now in project space and ready to be used/edited/etc. Previous discussion of the genesis of this project is at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Frank Zappa. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:17, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can you add the Zappa template here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Frank_Zappa to the page? Also this: Book:Frank Zappa, and The Zappa portal needs a major cleanup in the "article section" for it lists articles that have been deleted as well as it's missing articles that have been since created. The Template and Zappa Book though have the correct information you can use as reference. --Mrmoustache14 (talk) 22:26, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done although of course anyone can add it to any relevant talk page by just adding {{WikiProject Frank Zappa}}. Speaking of the template, I pretty much just ripped it off from another project and changed the images and of course the name. I am not real strong on template coding but it currently does not seem to support additional parameters such as class and importance ratings. We should probably have those to help organize our efforts. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:55, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just added the project template to every song with an article written by Zappa as well as all of his studio albums from 1966-1988. Shouldn't I add it to every article listed on the Book:Frank Zappa or? --Mrmoustache14 (talk) 23:21, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Glad to see that this project has found its way into existence. One thing that would be useful would be a userbox. Also, I plan on uploading a few better-quality (but still low-resolution) versions of a few album covers soon. For example, Make a Jazz Noise Here and Playground Psychotics both use the covers from reissues, which are cropped somewhat and haven't been scanned especially well. When I have time, I'll be working on making sure that the album covers are a clear representation of the work in the way they were originally released. Friginator (talk) 00:22, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just threw together a userbox, add {{Wikipedia:WikiProject Frank Zappa/UBX}} to your userpage to produce this

This user is a member of
WikiProject Frank Zappa

Beeblebrox (talk) 02:38, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! --Mrmoustache14 (talk) 02:47, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Friginator (talk) 03:34, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just added the template to the Warren Cuccurullo talk page. Doc2234 (talk) 04:40, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I just added the template to the Tommy Mars talk page, and it appears that not much attention has been focused upon a good number of the band members. Doc2234 (talk) 01:21, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Each article's importance to the project

Started creating class/importance parameters on the template, class mask, categories for the various classes, etc. This was all via cut-and-paste, so someone else should go over things and see what I did wrong. For instance, I would think that articles which just transclude the template with no class/importance parameters entered should show up as unassessed or unknown importance. However, it appears that not appending those to the template prevents those from appearing as such, even with portal/project/template pages which normally don't require the additional characters. I also began adding and assessing articles, but it appears I won't have time to do much damage on that right now. RadioKAOS – Talk to me, Billy 21:28, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So far, it appears to affect those articles added to the project before the class mask/categories were set up, but not those added since. I'll see if I have time to dig further. RadioKAOS – Talk to me, Billy 22:45, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well I'm pretty sure the Zappa albums "Freak Out!", "We're Only In It For the Money", "Over-Nite Sesnation", "Apostrophe (')", "Sheik Yerbouti", and the songs "Valley Girl", "Dancin' Fool", "Bobby Brown (Goes Down)", and "Let's Make the Water Turn Black" all qualify as top importance. --Mrmoustache14 (talk) 23:25, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm half asleep, as usual, so perhaps I didn't make enough sense here. At this moment, there are 150 pages under the project. Only 61 of them are showing up in the class and importance categories. I take this to mean that these categories should have been set up first, before adding the project template to these articles, and that the remaining 89 articles are in some sort of limbo (they show up just fine in the main category, but not in subcategories) due to this fact. Someone more technically involved should confirm this, or whether the templates were set up correctly, etc. RadioKAOS – Talk to me, Billy 23:52, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note that a lot of Zappa albums are not even tagged as belonging to this project. FunkMonk (talk) 11:19, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

John Smothers

Would Zappa's bodyguard qualify as a notable person? I've come across numerous references to him over the years, but probably little or nothing outside of the context of Zappa himself. Just curious. RadioKAOS – Talk to me, Billy 00:01, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The only thing I know about Smothers is that "Don Work for Yuda" from the album Joe's Garage Act II is about him. The song itself isn't really notable enough for an article so I have no idea if Smothers is notable... --Mrmoustache14 (talk) 00:47, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

He's featured in the Baby Snakes movie quite a bit in the parts with the band backstage, and (sort of) sings part "Muffin Man." One scene (a transcript of it can be found here), has him joking around with Terry Bozzio, who did the impression of him on "Dong Work for Yuda." He's actually credited with writing part of that song because almost all of Terry Bozzio's lines are strange things Smothers had actually said on tour (Like "Make way for the iron sausage" and "Falcum...take me to the Falcum.")

On the back of the LP of Joe's Garage Acts II & III, it's written "all selections composed, arranged & conducted by Frank Zappa except "Dong Work For Yuda" for which John Smothers provided half the words (the good ones). But again, on the actual song he's being impersonated by Terry Bozzio, so he doesn't actually appear on any of Zappa's albums (even the soundtrack to Baby Snakes). I don't know if he's notable enough to have his own article, personally, especially considering almost everything about him is just word-of-mouth and you wouldn't be able to find a good number of sources. Though if someone DID somehow find a bunch of third-party sources with biographical info on him, I wouldn't object to an article being created. Friginator (talk) 02:33, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Flo & Eddie

They're of interest to the project right? --Mrmoustache14 (talk) 21:18, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I should think so. Actually I am rather surprised that the reticle on the duo covers their time with the Mothers in, well about one sentence before moving on to what else they did afterward. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:01, 11 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Especially when it comes to a sentence mentioned in the Sofa article: "Originally "Sofa" was only performed in concert and was part of a longer composition around the Flo and Eddie era of Zappa's music where Mark Volman pretended to be a sofa." As well as Zappa placing a middle finger over the word Flo on the Over-Nite Sensation album because he was angry that Volman quit. --Mrmoustache14 (talk) 00:09, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Actually come to think of it, since Vai's cover of Sofa from the tribute album Zappa's Universe won a grammy, why on Earth doesn't it have an article? Albums with grammy winning songs obviously are notable... I'm going to make it. --Mrmoustache14 (talk) 00:19, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thomas Nordegg

Would Thomas Nordegg qualify for a page? His work was valuable to Zappa, and his work extends to Warren Cuccurullo and Dweezil. Doc2234 (talk) 01:36, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I looked up some things on him. I don't think he has contributed enough to really have his own page, but if he is notable I'd put it off until other more notable musician pages such as Tom and Bruce Fowler have some work done on them... especially Tom Fowler's it's a stub with only citation... --Mrmoustache14 (talk) 02:10, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just did a quick search for references for Tom Fowler and did not find anything great, quickly. I have had difficulty finding good references for both Warren C. and Dale B. (who I have focused on), I think, because most of the references are in hard copy - music magazines from that period, etc. For Tom Fowler, bass mags likely have stuff. I have some old Modern Drummer mags that can be used for references for the Terry Bozzio page. Doc2234 (talk) 02:31, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, Terry, Dale, and Warren are all definitely all top priority ACTUALLY the 3 of them and Patrick O'Hearn were in a band called Missing Persons if that helps you find information on them. --Mrmoustache14 (talk) 02:59, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I know. I'm working on MP (band) stuff off line. Chuck Wild was also in MP, and he also did keyboards on Thing Fish, if I remember correctly (Among the former FZ members, it's a close knit group of musicians that support each others' projects - even currently. I also have some references - enough to validate an article - on Chuck Wild. Doc2234 (talk) 03:13, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Inca Roads/other complex Zappa pieces

As I assume you all know, "Inca Roads" is one of Zappa's most complex pieces, but it's article only goes into slight detail about it's structure. This is because despite proper citations I myself cannot decipher exactly what to draw from it's structure when looking at the piece of music. Could someone who knows more about music theory add the most important information about the song's complex structure to the article? http://fabriano.tripod.com/inca_road.txt This is a link to the music for "Inca Roads" and I hope it can count as a trustworthy citation. Other complex pieces with articles such as "The Black Page" should also have their structure written in more detail. --Mrmoustache14 (talk)

I doubt that a guitar tab transcription would be considered a trustworthy source. And even so, analyzing the song structure based on a guitar tab would constitute original research. --Mystery Roach (talk) 10:26, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The only other source I could find detailing Inca Roads' structure was an interview with George Duke, but he only talked about his parts of the song. --Mrmoustache14 (talk) 19:51, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I might be able to add more detail if we could find sheet music as opposed to tablature, but it could easily stray onto original research. The stuff in the link is what one person thinks they heard on a particular recording and does not even include basic information like time signatures, so it is not of much use. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:22, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't find free online "Inca Roads" sheet music, but I found "The Black Page": http://www.scribd.com/doc/52312816/Frank-Zappa-The-Black-Page-No-1-drum-solo-official-sheet-music --Mrmoustache14 (talk) 21:31, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

On "The Black Page", I'll check to see if there is any discussion in my references for Terry Bozzio. I'm a litle busy right now, but I'll try to fit it in. Doc2234 (talk) 01:48, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dale Bozzio page help requested

Hi, Recently, some of the information that I had added to the With Frank Zappa section on the Dale Bozzio page was removed during a RfC. Please see here for the way the section appeared prior to removal of the information. The information that I added concerned Dale's participation in "Zappa’s Universe"; I thought it was relevant. Could you editors please provide your thoughts as to relevance and readding the information? Also, if you have better references, that might make a stronger case for keeping the info in the article. Thank you in advance for any thoughts and help. Doc2234 (talk) 20:45, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think you used the wrong diff for the link. All I see is a difference in how Lady Gaga's name is spelled. Could you post a diff from when it was removed? Friginator (talk) 21:19, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This one should do it here. Doc2234 (talk) 21:36, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I re-added it. The RfC discussion seems to mainly be about the cat incident. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be included. Stuff like this makes me think there could be a case for giving "Packard Goose" its own article. Friginator (talk) 21:51, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for re-adding. And that's an interesting thought about "Packard Goose". ...worth consideration IMHO. Doc2234 (talk) 21:58, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dale being a part of Zappa's Universe IS in her article (as it rightfully should), also since Zappa's Universe has its own article now (made by me) it could use some expansion since I have been the only major contributor to it so far. Mrmoustache14 (talk) 21:20, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I will look at adding the info back onto the Dale Bozzio page, and if Friginator has any thoughts, that would be great. Are there any better references than what I was able to find? If so, I will do what I can to help expand the Zappa's Universe page, too. Thank you.Doc2234 (talk) 21:47, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

German wikipedia

Clearly the people of Germany LOVE Frank Zappa. Their wikipedia page on him is so in depth that if anyone who knows German should take a look at them to improve ours. Specifically, the page has music chart showing rhythms is "Big Swifty", "You Didn't Try to Call Me" and "Zomby Woof." The only problem is that everything is in German and would require translation. Does anyone know German? Oddly enough some of their Zappa song articles seem to be of songs we don't have articles for (Such as San "Ber'dino" and "Stink-Foot".) Here at the Zappa project of the English wikipedia I feel that doing some investigation of the German page could only improve the English page.. Mrmoustache14 (talk) 21:27, 9 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm German, but I don't really have the time to go through all that stuff. If you give a page or a section, I can translate it, but the initiative will have to be yours. --Mystery Roach (talk) 13:59, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

These are some of the templates and pages I think could benefit the English Zappa project examples:

If these links contain anything worthwhile please feel free to add them to their respected pages. If they don't: Oh well. Mrmoustache14 (talk) 19:11, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Road Tapes, Venue #1

I just created an article for the live album Road Tapes, Venue #1. The problem is that the number sign apparently can't be used in article titles, so that title actually redirects to Road Tapes, Venue instead for some reason. I've then named the article Road Tapes, Venue 1 as a compromise. Just keep that in mind when linking. FunkMonk (talk) 11:13, 2 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There's a standard procedure for when a Wikipedia article's title can't be accurate because of Wikipedia's technical limitations. ArguaBILL (talk) 20:27, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Project shortcut

If anyone is still paying attention over here, I created the shortcut WP:FZ, which I figure was overlooked in the first place. However, the structure of the project page is confusing to me (mostly transclusions, it appears?), and I couldn't figure out how to include it. If anyone can read it better than I could, help me out, willya? RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 19:02, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I still check here from time to time, but I will say that this project doesn't have a lot of attentive users. What a shame. Mrmoustache14 (talk) 03:12, 25 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject X is live!

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FAR: Frank Zappa

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