Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Drag Race/Archive 6
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Lip Sync tables and colorblind accessibility
I've noticed a major issue with the accessibility of the Lip Sync tables in every season of drag race. Per MOS:COLOR we are breaking two major tenants of keeping info accessible. 1) we are using red and green to note different things. These two colors are indistinguishable to people with red-green Color blindness. 2) exacerbating this issue is that we are breaking the first listed accessibility note when it comes to color which reads "Ensure that color is not the only method used to convey important information. Especially, do not use colored text or background unless its status is also indicated using another method..". The purpose of using color here is to show how many times the contestant has lip-synced but the only thing saying this is the color.
This is how the current Season 11 table looks:
| Episode | Contestants | Song | Eliminated | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Kahanna Montrese | vs. | Soju | "The Best of Both Worlds" (Hannah Montana) |
Soju |
| 2 | Kahanna Montrese | vs. | Mercedes Iman Diamond | "Work Bitch" (Britney Spears) |
Kahanna Montrese |
| 3 | A'Keria C. Davenport vs. Honey Davenport vs. Plastique Tiara vs. Ra'Jah O'Hara vs. Scarlet Envy vs. Shuga Cain |
"Waiting for Tonight (Hex Hector Mix)" (Jennifer Lopez) |
Honey Davenport | ||
| 4 | Mercedes Iman Diamond | vs. | Ra'Jah O'Hara | "Living in America" (James Brown) |
Mercedes Iman Diamond |
| 5 | Ariel Versace | vs. | Shuga Cain | "I'm Your Baby Tonight" (Whitney Houston) |
Ariel Versace |
| 6 | Ra'Jah O'Hara | vs. | Scarlet Envy | "Last Dance" (Donna Summer) |
Scarlet Envy |
| 7 | A'Keria C. Davenport | vs. | Ra'Jah O'Hara | "Strut" (Sheena Easton) |
Ra'Jah O'Hara |
| 8 | Brooke Lynn Hytes | vs. | Yvie Oddly | "Sorry Not Sorry" (Demi Lovato) |
None |
| 9 | Plastique Tiara | vs. | Vanessa Vanjie Mateo | "Hood Boy" (Fantasia Barrino) |
Plastique Tiara |
| 10 | Shuga Cain | vs. | Vanessa Vanjie Mateo | "No More Drama" (Mary J. Blige) |
Shuga Cain |
| 11 | Nina West | vs. | Silky Nutmeg Ganache | "No Scrubs" (TLC) |
Nina West |
| 12 | Brooke Lynn Hytes | vs. | Vanessa Vanjie Mateo | "Pride: A Deeper Love" (Aretha Franklin) |
Vanessa Vanjie Mateo |
| 14 | Brooke Lynn Hytes | vs. | Silky Nutmeg Ganache | "Bootylicious" (Destiny’s Child) |
Silky Nutmeg Ganache |
| A'Keria C. Davenport | vs. | Yvie Oddly | "SOS" (Rihanna) |
A'Keria C. Davenport | |
| Brooke Lynn Hytes | vs. | Yvie Oddly | "The Edge of Glory" (Lady Gaga) |
Brooke Lynn Hytes | |
- The contestant was eliminated after their first time in the bottom.
- The contestant was eliminated after their second time in the bottom.
- The contestant was eliminated after their third time in the bottom.
- The contestant was eliminated after their fourth time in the bottom.
- The contestant was eliminated after the first round of the finale lip-sync tournament
- The contestant was eliminated after the second round of the finale lip-sync tournament.
I propose either completely eliminating the colors all together or changing them to more contrasting colors and including number of lip syncs under the name of the eliminated queen. both options below. I based the new colors off the "contestant progress" chart:
Colors emilminated
| Episode | Contestants | Song | Eliminated | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Kahanna Montrese | vs. | Soju | "The Best of Both Worlds" (Hannah Montana) |
Soju |
| 2 | Kahanna Montrese | vs. | Mercedes Iman Diamond | "Work Bitch" (Britney Spears) |
Kahanna Montrese |
| 3 | A'Keria C. Davenport vs. Honey Davenport vs. Plastique Tiara vs. Ra'Jah O'Hara vs. Scarlet Envy vs. Shuga Cain |
"Waiting for Tonight (Hex Hector Mix)" (Jennifer Lopez) |
Honey Davenport | ||
| 4 | Mercedes Iman Diamond | vs. | Ra'Jah O'Hara | "Living in America" (James Brown) |
Mercedes Iman Diamond |
| 5 | Ariel Versace | vs. | Shuga Cain | "I'm Your Baby Tonight" (Whitney Houston) |
Ariel Versace |
| 6 | Ra'Jah O'Hara | vs. | Scarlet Envy | "Last Dance" (Donna Summer) |
Scarlet Envy |
| 7 | A'Keria C. Davenport | vs. | Ra'Jah O'Hara | "Strut" (Sheena Easton) |
Ra'Jah O'Hara |
| 8 | Brooke Lynn Hytes | vs. | Yvie Oddly | "Sorry Not Sorry" (Demi Lovato) |
None |
| 9 | Plastique Tiara | vs. | Vanessa Vanjie Mateo | "Hood Boy" (Fantasia Barrino) |
Plastique Tiara |
| 10 | Shuga Cain | vs. | Vanessa Vanjie Mateo | "No More Drama" (Mary J. Blige) |
Shuga Cain |
| 11 | Nina West | vs. | Silky Nutmeg Ganache | "No Scrubs" (TLC) |
Nina West |
| 12 | Brooke Lynn Hytes | vs. | Vanessa Vanjie Mateo | "Pride: A Deeper Love" (Aretha Franklin) |
Vanessa Vanjie Mateo |
| 14 | Brooke Lynn Hytes | vs. | Silky Nutmeg Ganache | "Bootylicious" (Destiny’s Child) |
Silky Nutmeg Ganache |
| A'Keria C. Davenport | vs. | Yvie Oddly | "SOS" (Rihanna) |
A'Keria C. Davenport | |
| Brooke Lynn Hytes | vs. | Yvie Oddly | "The Edge of Glory" (Lady Gaga) |
Brooke Lynn Hytes | |
Higher Contrast Colors
| Episode | Contestants | Song | Eliminated | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Kahanna Montrese | vs. | Soju | "The Best of Both Worlds" (Hannah Montana) |
Soju (1st lip sync) |
| 2 | Kahanna Montrese | vs. | Mercedes Iman Diamond | "Work Bitch" (Britney Spears) |
Kahanna Montrese (2nd lip sync) |
| 3 | A'Keria C. Davenport vs. Honey Davenport vs. Plastique Tiara vs. Ra'Jah O'Hara vs. Scarlet Envy vs. Shuga Cain |
"Waiting for Tonight (Hex Hector Mix)" (Jennifer Lopez) |
Honey Davenport (1st lip sync) | ||
| 4 | Mercedes Iman Diamond | vs. | Ra'Jah O'Hara | "Living in America" (James Brown) |
Mercedes Iman Diamond (2nd lip sync) |
| 5 | Ariel Versace | vs. | Shuga Cain | "I'm Your Baby Tonight" (Whitney Houston) |
Ariel Versace (1st lip sync) |
| 6 | Ra'Jah O'Hara | vs. | Scarlet Envy | "Last Dance" (Donna Summer) |
Scarlet Envy (2nd lip sync) |
| 7 | A'Keria C. Davenport | vs. | Ra'Jah O'Hara | "Strut" (Sheena Easton) |
Ra'Jah O'Hara (4th lip sync) |
| 8 | Brooke Lynn Hytes | vs. | Yvie Oddly | "Sorry Not Sorry" (Demi Lovato) |
None |
| 9 | Plastique Tiara | vs. | Vanessa Vanjie Mateo | "Hood Boy" (Fantasia Barrino) |
Plastique Tiara (2nd lip sync) |
| 10 | Shuga Cain | vs. | Vanessa Vanjie Mateo | "No More Drama" (Mary J. Blige) |
Shuga Cain (3rd lip sync) |
| 11 | Nina West | vs. | Silky Nutmeg Ganache | "No Scrubs" (TLC) |
Nina West (1st lip sync) |
| 12 | Brooke Lynn Hytes | vs. | Vanessa Vanjie Mateo | "Pride: A Deeper Love" (Aretha Franklin) |
Vanessa Vanjie Mateo |
| 14 | Brooke Lynn Hytes | vs. | Silky Nutmeg Ganache | "Bootylicious" (Destiny’s Child) |
Silky Nutmeg Ganache (finale lip sync, first round) |
| A'Keria C. Davenport | vs. | Yvie Oddly | "SOS" (Rihanna) |
A'Keria C. Davenport (finale lip sync, first round) | |
| Brooke Lynn Hytes | vs. | Yvie Oddly | "The Edge of Glory" (Lady Gaga) |
Brooke Lynn Hytes (finale lip sync, second round) | |
- The contestant was eliminated after their first time in the bottom.
- The contestant was eliminated after their second time in the bottom.
- The contestant was eliminated after their third time in the bottom.
- The contestant was eliminated after their forth time in the bottom.
- The contestant was eliminated during the finale lip-sync tournament
I guess this all really just boils down to how important is the information of how many lipsyncs a contestant has done before they are eliminated. If we think that info is nt important we can just strip the color coding completely. If we think it is important we need to find a way to get this information across in an accessible way. --Found5dollar (talk) 17:57, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
- I don't think the number of times a queen is in the bottom is that important to be honest. I would be in favor of eliminating the color coding completely for simplicity and readability. Fandom is a better place to keep track of that information. Alucard 16❯❯❯ chat? 11:37, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Drag Queen of the Year
This is not specifically RPDR-related, but Alaska's Drag Queen of the Year Pageant Competition Award Contest Competition (or simply Drag Queen of the Year) might be notable:
- https://www.them.us/story/alaska-drag-competition
- https://www.out.com/drag/2020/3/08/drag-races-alaska-bringing-her-all-inclusive-drag-pageant-back
- https://instinctmagazine.com/alaska-crowns-drag-queen-of-the-year/
- https://ew.com/tv/alaska-drag-queen-of-the-year-pageant-2021-cast/
---Another Believer (Talk) 21:03, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Queens for whom English is not their first language
I'm not quite sure this belongs somehow in Snatch Game, right now I'm just trying to refresh my memory. Season 13 doesn't appear to have any queens where English is not their first language. How common is that among the seasons?Naraht (talk) 19:56, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
- I guess it depends on whether or not you include queens like Yuhua or Plastique, who technically don't speak English as their native language but moved to the US and learned it at a young age. That's a different case from someone like Nicky Doll or Cynthia Lee Fontaine, who learned it as adults and speak other languages with more facility than English. If we count even the ones who learned English as children, it seems most seasons have one to three non-native speakers, skewing a bit toward early seasons when there were a lot of Puerto Rican queens. Armadillopteryx 20:11, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
- Yeah. I was mostly looking for queens where English was learned to fluency as an adult. Oddly enough there haven't been any queens whose home town is listed as Puerto Rico since Season 7. I even remember seasons when the Library is open and reads were in Spanish... Naraht (talk) 22:32, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
New Articles - National Versions - Series/Seasons.
I'd like to propose the following rule for new national versions and new series/seasons:
Given the amount of information which is present in the table at Drag Race (franchise), an article for a new National Version or a new series/season should only occur if there is significant verified information beyond that which belongs in the table at the franchise article (in the case of a new national version) or beyond that which would occur on the national page (in the event of a new series/season). This would normally be the list of queens which have been selected for the show but might be something such as a newsworthy replacement of a judge.
Naraht (talk) 23:19, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
- Naraht, So, can you clarify which pages you propose merging or deleting? ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:31, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
- Another Believer At this point, I believe that this rule (policy?) would keep the status quo (other than leaving the option of splitting Chile into a national, season 1 and season 2).Naraht (talk) 07:53, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
WP:FANCRUFT - or "trimming required"
Besides the "open task" listed on the main page (afaik, it's ok if the summaries are not referenced, as it is assumed the source is the WP:PRIMARY episode itself; although yes it is better if there is a summary from elsewhere: that might also help with cutting down on the excessive trivial details present everywhere); the bigger issue is that a lot of these articles (especially the season ones) are full of WP:INDISCRIMINATE tables about every marginal detail, and well that is clearly, as I hint, trivial information of no interest but to a very small audience. I've cut down the ones I've come across via pending changes/edit requests, but there's probably a whole lot of them so you might be better placed to do that; as well as potentially cutting down some more than what I did. This might also help with the regular changes by IPs which appear on the PC watchlist. Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 15:43, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
- As far as I can tell from the RPDR UK Season 2 changes you made, your objection is primarily to the lipsync list. Is it your contention that this contains information that already appears in the Article?Naraht (talk) 03:21, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
- Almost. My objection is that some of the information is redundant with other tables/parts of the article (the lipsync list, but other parts too), and second that some of it is indiscriminate details (for example, things like farewell messages, the exact order of contestants in each episode, ...) which is not of interest but to enthusiastic fans of the show (fancruft, as I link; and as is pointed out higher on this page (scrolling rapidly), "Fandom is a better place to keep track of that information." - would apply here as well). You're welcome to join the discussion at the talk page. Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 04:15, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
All Stars 4 runners-up topic on All Stars talk page
G'day, Drag Race editors. I would like your opinion regarding naming Naomi Smalls and Monique Heart as runners-up in the series summary table. If you have any opinion regarding this, please sound off on the All-Stars talk page. Thanks! k_cms (talk) 22:42, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- Personally, I do consider Naomi and Monique Runner-Ups. When Googling the definition of "Runner-Up", one definition is "a competitor finishing behind the winner in the specified position.", and to me, they both fit that definition. Just my personal opinion, though. Scootersfood (talk) 23:02, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- I completely understand where you're coming from, as we haven't really defined that the names that undergo the Runners-up column must place 2nd or 3rd, although it has been consistently for the past three seasons. k_cms (talk) 00:11, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
Mobile game
FYI, mobile game on the way: RuPaul's Drag Race: The Mobile Game
---Another Believer (Talk) 18:28, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Important - Drag Race tables
There's currently a discussion over at Talk:RuPaul's Drag Race UK (series 2)#Ground rules which is likely to have far reaching and wide consequences. In in the interests of fairness I'm notifying. Please consider brevity when you respond to the discussion. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 17:52, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
- Also, as I have noted in that article, this doesn't just apply to Drag Race - and moreover, why is a new precedent being attempted to be set on one series of one specific show...? Spa-Franks (talk) 23:19, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- Spa-Franks its not a new precedent. MOS:ACCESS has been a requirement for a number of years. The two drag race articles for which this has been discussed for were subject to a number of edit wars regarding the application of Access and other violations such as sythensis and original research. As part of the page protection there is a requirement for those engaged in edit warring to engage in the discussion which has led to the current situation where the tables have been converted and edit protection is in place. I simply placed the message her to let interested editors know. You can discuss your thoughts at the discussion page. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 16:05, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
- Nobody really seems interested in changing the precedent except for you and the user RandomCanadian. What we have on the majority of RPDR pages has worked for years, no point in changing it so drastically to be honest, sorry. 51.37.186.36 (talk) 14:38, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
- Three things
- Your argument is an appeal to tradition - it would only be correct if you could provide reasons for why the old way is correct; which I have seen none of so far.
- Discussions are not a vote, see WP:NOTDEMOCRACY
- Even if they were a vote, by my count so far, at the above mentioned discussion, there's [first choices only to keep this simple] 8 persons supporting option D) [no table], 3 for C) [less aggressive table], and 4 for A) [status quo].
- Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 19:43, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
- I strongly doubt the accuracy of any vote on that page, seeing as you and Lil-Unique have been routinely deleting comments that conflict with your opinions on that page lol.51.37.186.36 (talk) 12:15, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
- That's quite an accusation - can you point to any specific diffs that show this? ƒirefly ( t · c ) 12:39, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
- I strongly doubt the accuracy of any vote on that page, seeing as you and Lil-Unique have been routinely deleting comments that conflict with your opinions on that page lol.51.37.186.36 (talk) 12:15, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
- Three things
Please note I have now taken the discussion at RuPaul's Drag Race UK (series 2) to Dispute resolution. Spa-Franks (talk) 01:00, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Violet Chachki
Here I've asked if we should be referring to Violet Chachki as simply "Chachki" throughout her biography, since this is not a true last name.
I see Gagged (EP) also uses "Chachki" throughout, so putting this discussion on User:Aoba47's radar as well. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:24, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
- I do not have a strong opinion about it either way. I think that I used "Chachki" as that was the method used for the main Violet Chachki article. I agree that it is a little bit weird since it is not a true last name even for the character (at least to my knowledge). I am not really sure how to reference drag queens without being too repetitive. @Another Believer: Do you know if there have been any other discussions about this? I was just curious if there was ever a consensus on this topic. Aoba47 (talk) 22:50, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
Categorization of drag performers
I've initiated a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies#Categorization of drag performers, which obviously overlaps with this project. I won't repeat the whole thing here, and would request that any discussion be kept in one place rather than getting split up between here and there, but even though it goes beyond just RPDR queens alone (and thus WP:LGBT was a more appropriate venue to initiate a discussion) it does obviously have enough RPDR relevance to at least notify you guys of it. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 15:33, 25 March 2021 (UTC)