Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Balzac

Project guide

If you haven't already read it, the Project Guide may be a valuable resource in getting word of the project out and in getting new members in. If you should have any questions regarding this project, please feel free to contact the WikiProject Council or myself directly, and I'm sure we'll do what we can to help. Good luck with the project. Badbilltucker 23:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:27, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

How Many Redirects?

Do we need to make redirects for all manner of capitalization-possible titles? IE, there is no page called La Peau de Chagrin, but there is one for La Peau de chagrin. Should we make a redir for the all-upper one? The same question applies for misspellings; how ridiculous should we get? (I didn't get a sense of what's usual on Wikipedia:Redirect.) -- Scartol 00:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I never know either, but it's probably good to make one for things like "La Peau de Chagrin", a style which isn't very French but which is what English speakers are used to. Spelling redirects are probably only necessary if there is a really common misspelling; otherwise, people can easily find what they're looking for through the Balzac page. Lesgles (talk) 23:41, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Use of French Articles

In setting out for information about Les Chouans, I found immediately (of course) the French Wikipedia page. What's the standard for translating such an article? (I'd probably do a mediocre job, but it might be a start at least.) The Contributing FAQ says simply "Yes, it's a good idea to cross-pollinate." Is there some way to attribute this process? Feels a bit like plagiarism if I just straight-copy it. -- Scartol 01:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I've wondered that too. Wikipedia:Translation doesn't seem to say much about attributing the articles. Most of the translated articles I've seen don't say anything, but maybe it's best to put a note in the references section. Lesgles (talk) 23:49, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Marriage Contract

The original French title for A Marriage Contract, according to La Comédie humaine, is Le Contrat de mariage. Seems like the thing to do is make a page with this title and transform AMC into a redirect. But this feels like a big step and I'm very worried about screwing something(s) up. Someone else should do it or tell me to grow a spine and take a chance. -- Scartol 01:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Looks like you figured this out already. Lesgles (talk) 23:53, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Capitalization

Is there a different standard for capitalizing titles in French from the one in English? It seems weird to have La Comédie humaine rather than La Comédie Humaine. -- Scartol 02:18, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

This is a tricky one, and even French publishers aren't consistent. The most traditional style, however is that described on this Wikipédia page: fr:Wikipédia:Conventions typographiques#Titres d'œuvres en français. Basically, only the first letter of the title is capitalized, unless the title starts with a definite article and is not a phrase. So according to that style, La Comédie humaine is correct (and I think it is what I've seen most). Lesgles (talk) 00:05, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Maybe we shouldn't be using French titles

Just found this discussion at the main HdB page and checked its reference to Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(use_English). Insofar as the explicit rule there is: "If you are talking about a person, country, town, film, book, or video game, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article," maybe we shouldn't be using the French titles for pages about M. de Balzac's books? I notice that the Flaubert page uses English translations, as does Jules Verne. Victor Hugo can't make up its mind. -- Scartol 12:09, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I switched the directions on the main page, but then I had second thoughts. Given that the Template:BalzacBox infobox footer will require the names in their final format — not to mention all the actual pages themselves — I'd like to get a definite answer on French vs. English before working on this. (If we use English, as WP:UE seems to demand, does that mean the page will be called The Human Comedy (Balzac)?) -- Scartol 21:54, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Just did a Google search; "balzac 'human comedy'" brings back 27,800 results. "balzac "comédie humaine" brings back 155,000 — but when 'English results only' is selected, we're back down to 40,400 for the French version. -- Scartol 13:34, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if there's a good answer to this. With Hugo, for example, "Les Misérables" is almost always left in the original, but "Notre-Dame de Paris" is almost always translated. I think in this case you're right that having French titles is better, because it allows for greater consistency and less worry about what translation to use. For comparison, in the Columbia Encyclopedia article on Balzac [1] only the French titles are given, and in Britannica [2] the English translations are given in parentheses. Lesgles (talk) 00:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

You might check out the discussion of French/English titles at Wikipedia:WikiProject_France/Conventions#Titles_of_works_of_art. - NYArtsnWords (talk) 05:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, after musing on it for a while, I think it's best to use French, since I never ever see Father Goriot – it's always Le Pere Goriot. So yeah. French. – Scartol • Tok 12:27, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Er...Old Goriot? That's rather frequently used as the title of English editions. Some of the other novels are, I think, generally more commonly known by English titles - Cousin Bette, for instance, is pretty universal. There are others, but most of Balzac's novels are sufficiently obscure to the English-speaking world as to mean that they are mostly talked about by scholars, who tend to use the French. One of the problems with French titles is that the capitalization is totally unpredictable for English-speakers, which makes linking complicated and perilous. There's no obvious solution. It'd be nice if we at least had stubs for most of the novels, that might help with settling things. john k (talk) 06:01, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

New article

Help needed in expanding the article Monument to Balzac. --STTW (talk) 22:11, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm wondering if it really needs its own article. Are we sure there's much to say about it? Rodin isn't in the index of either Gerson (LCCN 78-175376) or Maurois (ISBN 0-8818-4023-8). I'm doubtful that the article had the potential to move beyond start-class, if that. You might try looking into biographies of Rodin. If you're unable to do so, remind me again in a month or so and I'll see what I can find. – Scartol • Tok 22:46, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Media franchises

Dear WikiProject Balzac participants...WikiProject Media franchises needs some help from other projects which are similar. Media franchises' scope deals primarily with the coordination of articles within the hundreds if not thousands of media franchises which exist. Sometimes a franchise might just need color coordination of the various templates used; it could mean creating an article for the franchise as a jump off point for the children of it; or the creation of a new templating system for media franchise articles. The project primarily focuses on multimedia franchises. It would be great if some of this project's participants would come over and help the project get back on solid footing. Also, if you know of similar projects which have not received this, let Lady Aleena (talk · contribs) know. Please come and take a look at the project and see if you wish to lend a hand. You can sign up here if you wish. Thank you. LA @ 05:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Franchise naming convention discussion at WikiProject Media franchises

Dear WikiProject Balzac participants...WikiProject Media franchises is currently discussing a naming convention for franchise articles. Since this may affect one or more articles in your project, we would like to get the opinions of all related projects before implimenting any sweeping changes. Please come and help us decide. Thanks! LA (T) @ 22:21, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Request for comment on Biographies of living people

Hello Wikiproject! Currently there is a discussion which will decide whether wikipedia will delete 49,000 articles about a living person without references, here:

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

Since biographies of living people covers so many topics, nearly all wikiproject topics will be effected.

The two opposing positions which have the most support is:

1. supports the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, User:Jehochman
2. opposes the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, except in limited circumstances, User:Collect

Comments are welcome. Keep in mind that by default, editor's comments are hidden. Simply press edit next to the section to add your comment.

Please keep in mind that at this point, it seems that editors support deleting unreferenced article if they are not sourced, so your project may want to pursue the projects below.

Tools to help your project with unreferenced Biographies of living people

List of cleanup articles for your project

If you don't already have this and are interested in creating a list of articles which need cleanup for your wikiproject see: Cleanup listings A list of examples is here

Moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation pages"

If you are interested in moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation page", contact me, User talk:Ikip

Watchlisting all unreferenced articles

If you are interested in watchlisting all of the unreferenced articles once you install Cleanup_listings, contact me, User talk:Ikip

Ikip 02:12, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Titles: French or English? (RfC)

Should we use French titles for Balzac's novels, or English translations? This has been discussed before, but no clear consensus has been reached. (French vs. English titles is an ongoing discussion across the wiki, I know, but I'd like to reach a conclusion for this project at least, and I'm uncomfortable with having a mix.) Recently La Cousine Bette was moved to Cousin Bette, and instead of risking a page-move war, I'm seeking consensus.

WP:UE says "The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language, as you would find it in reliable sources", although the application here is unclear, as noted below. (Obviously, whichever choice we make, a translation to the other language will always be included in the first sentence of the article.) 14:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Reasons to use French

• They are the original titles used by the author
• Many works (ie La Peau de chagrin) are translated in various ways, making the choice of an English title difficult
• Most biographies and critical works use French

Reasons to use English

• This is an English-language project
• French capitalization is less standardized than English, leading to potentially hazardous linking
• WP:UE seems to advocate English titles, since many English-language movies and English translations of the books use English titles

I personally prefer French for the sake of using the original, but more than anything I want a uniform way forward for this project. Thanks for your feedback! Scartol • Tok 14:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Response to RfC Like you, I prefer the use of the original French. However, the subsection of Naming Conventions dealing with title translations for books also seems to favour using an English translation. This subsection recommends finding the most authoritative English version (that is, the one that helped it become best known in the Anglosphere), and use that title. Is that an option for the Balzac project's articles, or a bit too Herculanean? Northumbrian (talk) 18:59, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Alas, there usually isn't one. For example, Old Goriot and Father Goriot are equally common. And most authorities (who could help us with "authoritative" versions) use French. Scartol • Tok 19:49, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, if it's the case then that the existing guidance simply doesn't apply to, or work for, most of the articles on the project, then I'd recommend using the French title consistently throughout. While there may not be an authoritative English title for a given work, I'd think the most commonly translated English titles would be known or could be gathered, for which redirects and disambiguations could then be set up to the article with the French title. Oh, and perhaps, as a side project, the guidance at Naming Conventions could/should be updated to reflect these situations. Northumbrian (talk) 20:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, the guideline suggest using the title under which the work is most commonly known or discussed in English; and if the most commonly used names are the original French titles, then that seems to be both eminently reasonable and in tune with the relevant guideline. For instance, I would be quite surprised if Les Miserables was to be found at The Miserable Ones, and so, I would surmise, would the majority of the English speaking population. In fact, I would guess the closest second in Anglophone areas would be Le Miz rather than the proper translation. Unless there were some very compelling argument brought forth to the contrary, my suggestion would be to standardize on the French title for every work that doesn't have an obvious and established English title. Redirects from common English titles could be supplied; but I wouldn't worry overmuch about the capitalization rules, as nobody much understand those intuitively anyway. Anyways, my two cents. HTH, --Xover (talk) 18:29, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

I've got the 1901 edition, and IIRC (it's boxed up) the editors used the original French while discussing the works yet used an English title for the actual stories, which were all translations. I looked at the article and I think the way it's now being done—French with the English translation in parenthesis—is fine. If you could only use one, I'd say French. Anybody who reads Balzac surely knows some French, and using an English title would be confusing if there are multiple English versions. Tom Reedy (talk) 03:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

P.S. Why doesn't the monument article have that big fat nude study? That's a truly great work. Tom Reedy (talk) 03:14, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Someone changed his name to "ballsack"

I've never edited a Wikipedia page before but I see that Balzac's name is spelled "Ballsack" a few times at the beginning of the page. Seems like pranksters. 108.69.134.1 (talk) 23:53, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!

Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

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Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

La Comédie humaine listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for La Comédie humaine to be moved to The Human Comedy. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 00:46, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

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La Comédie humaine listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for La Comédie humaine to be moved to The Human Comedy (literary cycle). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 07:32, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

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