Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Mascot

Mascot

Midori no Hibi was terrible. Could we change the mascot? -Iopq 10:58, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

That's a con. Pro:She's very "generic anime" looking. Hm... any suggestions? Maybe one of the Onegai Twins? ~Kylu (u|t) 01:17, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

The best solution would be for some talented and generous person to design and donate a generic mascot character since that avoids any copyright issues. Shiroi Hane 02:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Generous? Oka-...wait, you mentioned talent. Drat. Nevermind. ~Kylu (u|t) 04:01, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm Terrible at stuff like that. We do need one, though. Dee man45 19:34, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Aww, it's okay! >^.^< Actually, I've got a couple ideas to throw at everyone about this. Later. ~Kylu (u|t) 00:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

For everyone's information, the mascot fan art image commons:Image:Midori fanart.jpg is up for deletion, because fan art is a copyright violation. ~MDD4696 18:09, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

If "fan art" is too bad a copyvio, then man, you'd have practically NO images left on Wikipedia, let alone for film or comics, since most are screenshots or scans! Seriously, I had always been told that it wasn't a copyvio to draw the CHARACTER (the pose, however, stronger case for copyvio). It could, however, be a trademark violation, especially if you failed to include the proper trademark info and tried to make money off it as well. I doubt the creators of that anime would care if a fan art of their character was used as a mascot on a free net encycplopedia. :P The Japanese tend to be pretty lenient in general on fan art to begin with (they even let fans openly sell small runs of fan COMICS for a small profit!). - 63.21.81.221 10:16, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the problem is that the fanart wouldn't be considered fair use on any page but the Midori article itself. So having it on every other page is no good :/--SeizureDog 23:59, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Bah, I guess that means we have to use an original character unless there is some way of constituting fair use. --Squilibob 01:40, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I happen to know some pretty good artists, and have asked that they provide some sample "generic anime" images for the project. If nothing else, I can dig through my oek art folder and find a generic pic, then just ask the artist if we can use it here. :) ~Kylu (u|t) 02:22, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

That could work. But something cheerleader-y like our current one WOULD be nice. 63.21.81.221 10:16, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I too have some friends who make manga-style original characters and can make a commission request if Kylu's search is fruitless. I agree that our mascot should be generic (in a good way) and look excited/enthusiastic without actually being a cheerleader. - Phorque (talk · contribs) 15:20, 06 May 2006 (UTC)

As long as it's better than that horrible Image:Final Solution-chan.jpg. Doesn't look at all like anime... Also, on a side note, I know we must be strict for legal reasons and such, but after finding out that commons:Image:Midori fanart.jpg got deleted I couldn't help but think "give me a fucking break". -- Ned Scott 13:23, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I've found this pic on commons, being used by the Chinese Wikipedia. deadkid_dk 09:48, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

It's Nayuki from Kanon --Squilibob 12:01, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Alright, seeing how we're at a lack of an icon now I went ahead a put together a little something. FYI: It is a traced image (and by traced, I mean traced, not vectored, I did it in Flash). However, I changed both the eye and hair color from the original, and if anyone can actually still tell who the original character is at that zooming and with alterations then well, you're insanely perceptive and watch too much anime. In any case, this should not constitute as a copyright violation as the only things I really copied was the basic anime style which is uncopyrightable. The character itself is an original. Without further ado, I present my suggestion:

It's small, simple, and focuses on the defining image of the anime style: the eyes. And course most important of all, it's generic. Do I have support? --SeizureDog 01:09, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

The picture in the template for Wikiproject Japan is resized to 60x50px, so that might be a good size. In my opinion the hair stands out more than the eyes and red usually implies an error, so I'd suggest using a different color for the hair. --Squilibob 01:28, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

How about gray hair then? It's common enough in anime, plus it's virtually the offical color of Wikipedia ;)

--SeizureDog 01:43, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Resized and also made eyes gray. It's now Wiki-tan as per Kunzite's request :P

--SeizureDog 01:55, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I would like to have a Wiki-tan-style mascot. Perhaps we could ask this image's maker (I though I posted this before, but it may have been a edit conflict that I didn't fix.) --Kunzite 01:34, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

---

Ok, done tweaking the images (mostly just some smoothing here and there). Here is what they would look like in context:
Template size (80px):

	This article is part of WikiProject Anime and manga, which aims to expand Wikipedia's coverage of anime and manga. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project.

Stub size (50px):
This anime/manga-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia and WikiProject Anime and manga by expanding it.
--SeizureDog 03:32, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

The grey hair and eyes looks good, neutral colors aren't distracting at all. I like it, Good job! --Squilibob 06:53, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I was getting bored, so I went ahead a also drew up a full version of Wiki-tan. It's not quite as polished looking, but not bad considering how I never draw in the anime style. She has her hair up in Wiki-buns :P

Ta-da! Now we can have an original mascot :) At least, if everyone else likes it that is. I'm sure someone could draw up a nicer looking version, but I made a good base design. Anywho, remember that we're still just voting for the eyes. The full Wiki-tan thing is just so we can say that it's an original character and it's not a fan drawing of anyone.--SeizureDog 05:19, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Kawaii. n.n She reminds me of Ruri (Martian Successor Nadesico) a little. ~Kylu (u|t) 05:48, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

The original base picture I was using for reference was actually of Yuki from The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. But after I changed the hair to gray I kept thinking about Anju from Karin. Then I couldn't start on a body because all I could think for her to wear was a gothic dress >< But still, glad you liked it :)--SeizureDog 06:41, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Aww, I was going to suggest Yuki, but now you've given it away I lose out on my insanely perceptive award :( Looks good! :) Shiroi Hane 11:10, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, the gray hair makes it start to look more like Yuki, which is partly why I went ahead a drew the whole thing.--SeizureDog 18:55, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Have yet to read Karin, though it's handy and available. I think Kanon is next in line after Kaze Kane... ~Kylu (u|t) 22:27, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I haven't read it either, I just watched the anime. We really need someone to read the manga though, as the Karin article really is lacking on the anime to manga comparison. Anyways, Karin was pretty good. Would have been better at 12 episodes instead of 24 though. --SeizureDog 22:55, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Seeing as there appears to be no objections and that one person has already gone ahead and used it for Talk:Southern Ice Hockey Club, I'm going to go ahead and add the image to the stub and templates. It should be kept unless a better suggestion comes along or it turns out everyone that hates it were just late in posting. --SeizureDog 23:08, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Ashibaka tock 06:49, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

OMG *nosebleed floods and moéshi'ed* deadkid_dk 07:40, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Wow, that's just creepy. Did the bun thing (using stubs looks better, I didn't do the wiki-spheres too well) and even had the same idea on the gothic maid uniform. I don't like how the name throws in the extra "pee" sound though. And why is it in grayscale? That seems odd. Still, kawaii :) --SeizureDog 09:02, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

This is an oekaki that I posted to Futaba-channel before.

It didn't expect to be used for Wikiproject. I redraw it and put on Comons. If you use it as mascot, I want you to use new one.

--Kasuga 17:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

AWESOME! -- Ned Scott 17:13, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow! I'm pleased to meet the artist! :) Could you upload a PNG version? Ashibaka tock 19:32, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Must Wikipedia-tan (or "wikipe-tan", as it were) be a loli tiny little girl? I've always imagined her as an intelligent, but horribly disorganised, youthful and energetic librarian in her late teens or early 20 (perhaps she's in collage, and volunteers her spare time, free of charge?) with long hair and big boobs, *cough* probably with glasses to add to the "librarian" look. She'd always be more than eager to help, and seem to know at least something about everything. When she first learns about a topic, she would often include some wrong information, but eventually she'd get it right, surpassing all others in depth and accuracy of knowledge. She'd be very open, and try not to have a bias, though it's obvious she holds a grudge on those that make information inaccessable by putting a price on it. You could stick with silver/silvery-blue hair, provided she still looks young (but not, you know young)... but maybe that's just me  ;) ... anyways, please upload non-photograph images in the form of PNGs, as they are lossless and do not produce visual distortions in the picture. Also: the higher res you can get it, the happier we'll all be. -Aknorals 22:20, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

While I also really like Kasuga's image, I must point out that it is bad form to use the same image for both the main WikiProject template and the WikiProject Collaboration of the Week template as this causes a double use of the image that just looks tacky. Therefor, I have reverted the main template's image back to the eye and move to keep Kasuga's for the Collaboration of the Week's.--SeizureDog 22:29, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

That's fine but the Collaboration of the week is meant to change with each new collaboration anyway. The reason it isn't Midori at the moment is because the image was deleted and that is why this conversation is taking place.

I think wikipedia has a lot of growing to do and so does Wiki-tan --Squilibob 00:18, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

It's just the CotW, if you wait a few days it will be gone and then it won't be "tacky" anymore. Ashibaka tock 00:20, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Sheesh, Wikipedia is just 5 years old, she's supposed to look loli >_>. Anyways, I thought fair use images aren't allowed on templates. deadkid_dk 00:29, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Over 1 million articles and she's a loli? Just a thought.... I just don't think that that particular image expresses the "personality" of WP.... -Aknorals 09:29, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Cheerful, energetic, needs to grow, vandals violate every part of her body everyday...I think she fits WP just fine. Granted, she doesn't look smart, but eh, minor details, who need'em. - deadkid_dk 21:54, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Would it be possible to get an SVG version of the mascot? Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:43, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I put a full sized PNG version on Commons. Image:Wikipe-tan_full_length.png, Image:Wikipe-tan_head.png. Regrettably, I can't offer SVG version, because I drew it in raster format.

Also I made the smaller trimmed version of it's face. It might be more suitable for icon. However, you need not stick to my trimming. Because it is distributed with GFDL, You can trim and retouch it freely. --Kasuga 11:02, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

---

Sigh, vote time it seems.

This is going back and forth between Ashibaka and me and the truth of the matter is, we haven't even voted as to which images to use where. So it's time for that. Please vote for either SeizureDog's or Kasuga's image in each catagory. Or you can bring up an entirely different image or something. Don't forget to add your --~~~~ for EACH catagory you vote in. Also, if I missed a section that should also be using one of these images pray tell.--SeizureDog 01:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Stub image:

SeizureDog's eyeshot: vs. In comparing the two you can see that Kasuga's image loses a lot of clarity at stub size. Even if we were to get a perfectly crisp image, the image is too detailed for that size. In this case, I believe less is more (in terms of detail)--SeizureDog 01:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

SeizureDog's eyeshot: for now. I'd like to see a better eyeshot for Wiki-tan. ~Kylu (u|t) 01:53, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Neither, both of them are incomprehensible at such a small size. Let's see if we can't find a better image. Ashibaka tock 02:23, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Neither Images at that small of size are very tricky, we should play around some more and see what we can come up with. -- Ned Scott 03:38, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Kasuga made a PNG Ashibaka tock 16:44, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

new face png much better. -- Ned Scott 23:04, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Kasuga's new PNG she's so cute. n.n SeizureDog's pic needs a place around here though, especially since there was that much work involved! ~Kylu (u|t) 02:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Main WikiProject's template image:

SeizureDog's eyeshot: Conformity between stub image and template image is the norm. Plus I believe the letterbox format looks better in this template.--SeizureDog 01:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Part of my arguement is shot now. Anyways, I do believe that Kasuga's image should be used, I just don't think the template it the best place for it. If it wasn't for the fact that we can have her on the main page as a full image I would certainly just give in and say it deserves this spot. But I like to keep a main icon simple. Trying my hardest not to be bias, but I believe the eye serves as a better icon.--SeizureDog 01:35, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Kasuga's headshot as the standard image for the project. Ashibaka tock 02:23, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Kasuga's headshot Eye shot, while definitely common in anime, doesn't seem to really say "anime" to me when I look at it. -- Ned Scott 03:38, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

CotW image:

Kasuga's headshot: Following my logic for the other template, I believe that the 1:1 format of the headshot fits into the CotW template better and I still think the CotW and Main template images should be different.--SeizureDog 01:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Neither. The AMCOTW image changes every week to a picture of the nominated article. There does not need to be a default image because an existing picture is used on the template or a picture is uploaded at the time of promotion. --Squilibob 01:20, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't sure on this point, as lately things have been gotten rather confusing. This section will be revoked. How do I do strikethroughs? (On a similar note, the CotW box is messed up and needs to be fixed)--SeizureDog 01:27, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

What exactly IS with the current CotW box? We somehow got another fan art image stuck in there (should it be deleted?). On top of which, Midori Day's should no longer be the CotW. Can't you understand my confusion after all this? --SeizureDog 01:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh for the love of God. As if this whole thing wasn't enough of a mess as it is.

WP:FU#Policy

"Fair use images should only be used in the article namespace. Used outside article space, they are often enough not covered under the fair use doctrine. They should never be used on templates (including stub templates and navigation boxes) or on user pages. They should be linked, not inlined, from talk pages when they are the topic of discussion. This is because it is the policy of the Wikimedia Foundation to allow an unfree image only if no free alternative exists and only if it significantly improves the article it is included on. All other uses, even if legal under the fair use clauses of copyright law, should be avoided to keep the use of unfree images to a minimum. Exceptions can be made on a case-by-case basis if there is a broad consensus that doing so is necessary to the goal of creating a free encyclopedia (like the templates used as part of the Main Page)."

Asibaka keeps trying to stick in some random fan art image in the Template:AMCOTW article/imagewhich I say is just as bad as the mess made by Midori. So it looks like we do have to vote for one of these images to stick in there.--SeizureDog 02:16, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I didn't realize it was fanart until you pointed it out; sorry about that. Anyway, I would vote to use no image, or Kasuga's headshot Ashibaka tock 02:23, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Neither or Kasuga's headshot, while they do express "anime" I think they should also express "collaboration", if possible. Any ideas on this? -- Ned Scott 03:38, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Image for WikiProject's main page:

Kasuga's full body: I think this can be pretty much agreed on, but figured I'd stick it as a catagory as well.--SeizureDog 01:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Kasuga's full body: I gotta say, I'm impressed! Very pro-looking, fits in with the other OS-tans, and still represents Wikipedia. n.n ~Kylu (u|t) 01:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

No disagreement here Ashibaka tock 02:23, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Kasuga's full body: per it being awesome. -- Ned Scott 03:38, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

PNG versions

Note: Be sure to use the PNG versions now uploaded by Kasuga.

• Image:Wikipe-tan full length.png
• Image:Wikipe-tan head.png
• Image:Wikipe-tan face.svg

Ashibaka tock 16:42, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

just a quick question, why are we using these PNGs when they are larger in file size than the JPGs? I don't know many details on the image formats, but I also thought PNG has the potential to be the better compressed file... so I guess I'm just over-all confused.. o.O -- Ned Scott 02:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

PNG is lossless and JPG is lossy. The old JPG was particularly lossy, so it happened to be smaller than the PNG (which does use better compression). Ashibaka tock 02:36, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Still need CotW image then

The voting has stalled and since I'm the lone dissenter I have given in and made the stub and main template images Kasuga's. However, I have removed the Kasuga image from the CotW template as there has been no true votes to put her there. For the time being, the template can be left blank, but we need ideas for what to use.--SeizureDog 23:19, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Why does there need to be an image for the COTW? It is changed on a regular basis and I don't think that you have worked that out. --Squilibob 01:13, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Read above a bit. We can't use fair use images in templates.--SeizureDog 20:22, 2 June 2006 (UTC)