Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/May 22, 2013
No operas
[edit]Thinking again (it happens): Wagner was against the term "opera" for his works, he didn't even say "music drama" to my knowledge, simply "drama". Therefore: can we please find something better than "in his four-opera cycle The Ring of the Nibelung"? I suggest a simple "in his Ring cycle". Far be it from me to touch that sacred article or its blurb myself. The talk just told me that restrictions are predicted to last until 2021 ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:06, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
- Well, the blurb follows the article and the article uses the wording "operas". Wagner doesn't get the final say on what the components of the Ring cycle are called by other people, including Wikipedia and the sources upon which it draws! BencherliteTalk 11:09, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
- As I said, restrictions are in place, and someone who doesn't know better will get the impression that Wagner created in English. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:13, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
- Stop playing silly games, Gerda. BencherliteTalk 11:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
- Your POV. I read the lead of the article again. It has Der Ring des Nibelungen, naturally, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:23, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
- You were mixing two things without making yourself clear. Your first (and only, I thought) point, was that you didn't want the word "opera" to be used. The article uses the word "opera", and so the blurb does. (You claim, in a silly way, that you are restricted from editing the article until 2021. That's your silly game). Then you say that people will think that Wagner wrote in English. Most unlikely that anyone would think so, and another silly comment. But your actual point, underneath all of this, is that the article says "four-opera cycle Der Ring des Nibelungen (The Ring of the Nibelung)" but the blurb says "four-opera cycle The Ring of the Nibelung". Well, we don't have the luxury of space to have both there, and it would be fair point to note that it makes more sense to have it in German to match the article's primary usage and the blurb's use of Tristan und Isolde. So I've changed it. Hope this makes you a bit happier. BencherliteTalk 11:37, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the change. Sorry I wasn't clear enough, I meant not me restricted from editing, but Wagner, restricted to have no infobox, predicted to last until 2021. I will leave Wagner's drama and controversies, for Bach ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:04, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
- You were mixing two things without making yourself clear. Your first (and only, I thought) point, was that you didn't want the word "opera" to be used. The article uses the word "opera", and so the blurb does. (You claim, in a silly way, that you are restricted from editing the article until 2021. That's your silly game). Then you say that people will think that Wagner wrote in English. Most unlikely that anyone would think so, and another silly comment. But your actual point, underneath all of this, is that the article says "four-opera cycle Der Ring des Nibelungen (The Ring of the Nibelung)" but the blurb says "four-opera cycle The Ring of the Nibelung". Well, we don't have the luxury of space to have both there, and it would be fair point to note that it makes more sense to have it in German to match the article's primary usage and the blurb's use of Tristan und Isolde. So I've changed it. Hope this makes you a bit happier. BencherliteTalk 11:37, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
- Your POV. I read the lead of the article again. It has Der Ring des Nibelungen, naturally, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:23, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
- Stop playing silly games, Gerda. BencherliteTalk 11:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
- As I said, restrictions are in place, and someone who doesn't know better will get the impression that Wagner created in English. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:13, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
Dear Bencherlite, thank you for your assistance in this matter. I understand why you have made the change: however can I mention that (as the main author of the article and the one who steered it through GA and FA, and proposed it for the front page) I deliberately used English as far as possible in this summary. This is English Wikipedia and I do not wish to frighten away any potential readers of the article. Could I therefore propose to you a further compromise edit: that we could use 'his four-opera Ring cycle '. This usage also occurs in the article, and I hope would therefore occasion no problems. What a pity that Gerda did not raise this when she commented supporting the front-page proposal - we could then all have been spared some toing and froing. Best, --Smerus (talk) 12:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks, Smerus, see above, I suggested "Ring cycle" myself, we can happily agree on that. Sorry that I didn't see it sooner. - Once we are together: I can't see anybody "frightened away" by "Der Ring des Nibelungen" instead of "The Ring of the Nibelung", it's rather close. Don't be too afraid ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:11, 20 May 2013 (UTC)