Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League

This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject National Football League and anything related to its purposes and tasks.

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WikiProject National Football League was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on 20 November 2013.

Club vs Team debate

For any editor not aware there has been an ongoing discussion since April at Talk:National_Football_League#Change_the_term_club_back_to_team about whether we should use the term "club" or "team" to refer to the clubs/teams in the league. ~~ Jessintime (talk) 14:47, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was not aware of that, no, so thanks for bringing this up. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:52, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For clarity, someone changed, at some point, teams to "clubs" in the article and the discussion is about changing the wording to be "teams". Hey man im josh (talk) 14:54, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:American football families versus Category:National Football League families

I am trying to understand the difference between these categories. Like why is Category:McCaffrey family in Category:American football families while Category:Manning family is in Category:National Football League families. Should these all just be in one of these cats? Category:American football families would seem to be more general and appropriate, in that it would account for families who had people who played college football, in other leagues other than the NFL, etc. Thoughts? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:14, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, we shouldn't limit them to leagues. The same logic applies to why we use Category:American football quarterbacks instead of Category:National Football League quarterbacks. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 21:47, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good article reassessment for Terrible Towel

Terrible Towel has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 02:05, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

San Diego Chargers infobox

Something wrong with the infobox at San Diego Chargers. It says "1961-2017", instead of the correct "1961-2016". I've tried to fix it, but no luck. GoodDay (talk) 23:08, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I made the corrections. It appears that @Azure1233: (in Dec 2023) mistakenly changed the dates. He apparently didn't realize (though there was a note there) that NFL team pages go be NFL seasons, rather than calender years. GoodDay (talk) 23:18, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Andy Pappanastos

OK I will admit I am kind of impatient but I am just asking the question if Draft:Andy Pappanastos is good enough for being an article? Just asking or if I need to add more references. Dänke WhyIsThisSoHard575483838 (talk) 03:31, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I provided feedback at the draft. —Bagumba (talk) 10:36, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki-Code Formatting Adjustments using color data from Module:Gridiron color/data

Is there a way to change the wiki-code formatting for Template:Gridiron alt primary style so that the border color in that specific template uses Template:Gridiron tertiary color raw instead of Template:Gridiron primary color raw? I'd change it myself, but I'm not technically proficient enough to implement this change by myself. Would anyone be opposed to changing the wiki-code formatting here? If not, would someone who knows how please help me implement this change? Also, how would I change the wiki-code formatting for the rowcells in Template:Infobox NFL team back to where they were at a normal size? Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 03:44, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the whole point of using the alt style is to use the secondary color as the filler and the primary color as the border (which makes it an inverse of the primary style). And the NFL team infobox is now using |rowstyle= instead of |headerstyle= to provide alternating styles, which seems to not work in exactly the same way. Personally I don't think we need every header to be the same size as the title header anyway as it just takes up additional space for no reason, but if others disagree then I can take another look at it. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 16:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dissident93: I mean, the only reason why I'm even proposing a wiki-code formatting change for Template:Gridiron alt primary style is because if you look at the wiki-code formatting for the Baltimore Ravens at Module:Gridiron color/data, the Ravens use gold as their tertiary team color (i.e., border color), but then that color can't be used in Template:Gridiron alt primary style. I'm just using the Ravens as an example, but my point is that the same tertiary border color should be used for both Template:Gridiron primary style & Template:Gridiron alt primary style for all teams that have a different tertiary color for the borders. Charlesaaronthompson (talk) 04:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Would implementing your proposed change affect other teams and if so, would the module data have to be fixed for to account for it? ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 14:48, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Marshon Lattimore

Could an admin add semiprotection to Marshon Lattimore's page for a few hours? IPs continue to edit the page and will do so until then the trade becomes official by 4pm EST. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 18:38, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done, but I'm obligated to say that these requests are best made at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection/Increase. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:46, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I knew there was a page for it somewhere but couldn't remember where. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 18:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I remember it based on the shortcut WP:RPP/I. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:52, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AP awards

This was discussed in the past but I believe there wasn't actually any consensus arrived from it, but the AP awards given out at the NFL Honors are considered the main award by the league and media (and have for years), and thus the articles should have their titles changed to reflect that. For example, Associated Press NFL Most Valuable Player Award should be re-titled to simply NFL Most Valuable Player Award as the only other notable MVP award even given out anymore is the PFWA NFL Most Valuable Player Award, which hasn't deviated from the AP's for the last 20 years anyway. We could include the historic MVP award table from the current NFL Most Valuable Player Award article in a section under the retitled AP page. This would apply to all the AP awards given out at the NFL honors. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 18:45, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have mixed feelings on this. The AP awards have been the 'de facto' awards for a good while now, essentially endorsed by the NFL given that they're the version of the award given out at the NFL Honors. I certainly wouldn't oppose it. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:18, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What's your counterargument for posterity? ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 19:24, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly just the ambiguity of the title. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

NFL Most Valuable Player Award is an existing article that summarizes all the different MVP awards. What would you rename this? I'm not sure I would support in an RM. I would be supportive of all the "Associated Press"es in the titles be changed to "AP" tho. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:27, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Would likely have to be for all the titles at Category:Associated Press awards if we're going to shortform it, which I would actually support. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:29, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per my original post, Associated Press NFL Most Valuable Player Award would be moved/merged with NFL Most Valuable Player Award, with the table there listing all the historic MVP awards be moved to a subsection under the newly renamed page. The only content that page even has is the table, so no information is being lost or overwritten. All other existing award pages such as PFWA NFL Most Valuable Player Award would remain as is. I'm only interested in stripping AP from the page title and not the article for the sake of simplicity; the Major League Baseball Most Valuable Player Award is awarded by the Baseball Writers' Association of America but isn't reflected in the page name. I can make a sandbox version of what it would look like if needed.

The only hesitation I have is how we would handle the pre-AP awards from before 1957. Would the Joe F. Carr Trophy and United Press International NFL Most Valuable Player Awards be included as a mostly linear path from 1938–1956 or would it be best to keep the current formatting and allow the table to list all the non-AP awards? ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 20:22, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Joe F. Carr Trophy should probably be included somehow at least? Its article says "It was awarded until the 1946 season, and it remains the only MVP award the NFL has officially sanctioned". Maybe these discrepancies is why Lizard the Wizard split out the AP award in the first place? ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:43, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, the simplest change would be to have NFL Most Valuable Player Award renamed to List of NFL Most Valuable Player awards. Every thing else can stay the same except changing Associated Press to AP (honestly, shouldn't it just be "MVP" per common name?). « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:44, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AP NFL MVP? ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 23:18, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd support that per WP:CONCISE. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 14:12, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

are considered the main award by the league and media: I don't believe the NFL has stated this, but even still we'd go by reliable, independent sources, not necessarily what a league desires to push. FWIW, the NFL's own record book lists both the AP and PFWA winners (and Sporting News, but they only issue offensive and defensive POY now). At Total Football II: The Official Encyclopedia of the National Football League p. 387 (1999), they list all the winners and historical selectors together. I'm wary of WP:UNDUE status making AP the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, and that's before even considering for recentism based solely on NFL Honors in the last decade. —Bagumba (talk) 04:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The PFHOF explictly mentions AP, e.g. Peyton Manning (click "Career Highlights") shows "2003 Associated Press Most Valuable Player". For Jerry Rice they list his non-AP MVPs ("1987 Most Valuable Player/Player of the Year (PFWA, NEA, SN, MX)").—Bagumba (talk) 05:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MOS:AVOIDBOLD and WP:BOLDLINKAVOID

In my years at WP:NFL, I have noticed two very common MOS issue: MOS:AVOIDBOLD and WP:BOLDLINKAVOID. For those unaware:

MOS:AVOIDBOLD: If the article's title does not lend itself to being used easily and naturally in the first sentence, the wording should not be distorted in an effort to include it. Instead, simply describe the subject in normal English, avoiding unnecessary redundancy.
WP:BOLDLINKAVOID: Links should not be placed in the boldface reiteration of the title in the first sentence of a lead

An example of both of these issues can be found here: 2013–14 NFL playoffs (Perm Link). The title of the article doesn't lend itself to being restated exactly in the first sentence, and even if it did, then the bold words should not be linked. I try to fix these as I come across them and I would appreciate any help if you all run into the same issue in other articles. I feel like many editors aren't even aware of this MOS, as I have been reverted fixing it until I share it with people. Thanks for nay help! « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:23, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a proposed standard wording and formatting? If we can establish that, some WP:GNOMEs might get to it. I often find certain editors revert for seemingly no other reason than "but we've always done it that way".—Bagumba (talk) 17:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bagumba these issues are rampant across Wikipedia in general. I was just putting this out here with the hope that when other editors see it, they correct it. Seems like the biggest problem is people just don't know its in the MOS this way. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gonzo fan2007: FWIW, it's come up before e.g. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 20 § NFL Championship Game edits by GoodDay, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 23 § Intro to American Football League seasons.—Bagumba (talk) 06:57, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the background Bagumba. My main gripe is the linking in the lead sentence, which doesn't seem to be contentious. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:14, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good article reassessment for New York Jets

New York Jets has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 00:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]