Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Backlog elimination drives

Request for my work to be checked

Can any experienced GOCE member check my work on Pyaar Ka Dard Hai Meetha Meetha Pyaara Pyaara for the July 2024 Backlog Drive? Any help will be greatly appreciated!

• Note: Tagging the article for neutrality.

Thanks, TheNuggeteer (talk) 10:45, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Looks good at a glance, and thanks for your help. All the best, Miniapolis 14:44, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Request for check

Can someone please check my copyedits for the pages Flextime and Sam Nunn for the July 2024 drive?

Thanks, TheNuggeteer (talk) 01:55, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your efforts, but I question some of the changes you've made.

Flextime:

• "flexible hours" -> "flexible hour" – which should be plural, as it's the number of hours that is flexible;
• "hours must be worked" -> "...worked on" – questionable addition of "on";
• quoting "change the nature of the way we work" – which I don't see supported by a source;
• "organisations" -> "organizations" – the former spelling being British English, which may be appropriate to the article as a whole;
• "flexitime" -> "flextime" – the former being a variant given in the lead and which seems appropriate to British Commonwealth countries.

Sam Nunn:

• "for which he is a co-chair" -> "for which he is the co-chairman" – the former being better for the implied plurality as well as "chair" now being a likely title for its gender neutrality;
• "Nunn was born in Macon, Georgia, the son of Mary Elizabeth" -> "...he is the son of Mary Elizabeth" – the former is better, I think; if you're going to have the latter, there should be a semicolon, not a comma, before "he";
• "captaining the school's basketball team to a state championship" -> "captaining the school's basketball team to the state championship" – which reads well either way, but I would not have seen the need to change it;
• "supposedly a top choice" -> "supposedly the "top choice" " – is quoting "top choice" supported by sources, which I see as the only legitimate reason for doing so?

Dhtwiki (talk) 04:42, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Fixed some of the issues, except:

• Organisations to Organizations = Seems better;
• Flexitime to Flextime = The main wording, Flexitime is just another nickname.
• quoting "change the nature of the way we work", quoting "top choice" = You're correct with the "source" reason, but there is another reason you can see at WP:QUOTE, to quote "claimed", "alleged", and other often "loaded" terms.
• "captaining the school's basketball team to a state championship" TO "captaining the school's basketball team to the state championship" = Does not need changing-back.

You can say to me your reason countering my reasons considering you are the more experienced editor.

Thanks, TheNuggeteer (talk) 05:57, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

The spelling of "organi{s|z}ations" should be decided by article style. Here, I think that you may be on firm footing in using the American spelling, as that seems the likely style at the start (per MOS:RETAIN, "...use the variety found in the first post-stub revision that introduced an identifiable variety."). But if "flexitime" is used in sources as pertaining to a particular nationality, I would consider using that variant in the text. I don't see how your section of WP:QUOTE justifies using quotation marks outside of direct quotation. If you feel the need to emphasize text, you can use the {{em}} template, but that is undue editorializing if it doesn't reflect a source. Dhtwiki (talk) 08:24, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Review my work

Hi! Could someone kindly review my work on the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research article? Much appreciated, thanks! Pinecone23 (talk) 22:37, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

It looks good to me, after a quick read. I'm assuming that what you've taken out is unnecessary verbosity, that you've made the article more succinct without losing nuance. One hiccup I noticed involves hatnotes. The "Short description" template goes at the very top, before all the others, per WP:LAYOUT. Then, the "Maintenance, cleanup, and dispute tags" do belong after the "Hatnotes" proper (I tend to label all top-listed templates by that name), although for readability in raw editing mode, I would start each on its own line. Dhtwiki (talk) 04:06, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much, I really appreciate it! I completely missed the layout issues regarding the tags, so thank you for pointing that out :) I believe I have reordered them correctly now. Pinecone23 (talk) 15:49, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Request for work check

Hi there! Could someone possibly review my work on Surrealist Manifesto? I was able to remove a lot of fluff, but there were a few sentences I wasn't sure how to put in an encyclopedic tone. A fresh set of eyes to look over it would be much appreciated. Thanks, LeMeilleurMiel (talk) 00:46, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Both versions looked encyclopedic in tone to me. You took out a fair amount of text, which seems to be carefully done. Again, I'm just doing a quick read. However:

• "prior leaders of rival surrealist groups" – why "prior"? I would have left that word out;
• "Goll and Breton's conflicting beliefs led to a fight at the Comédie des Champs-Élysées" – it's "skirmish" in the source and it seemed as much street theater as violent fisticuffs, as "fight" would suggest;
• "Later sources describe Breton and having won." – "as" having won.

Dhtwiki (talk) 06:15, 5 July 2024 (UTC) (edited 01:39, 19 July 2024 (UTC))

Sorry it took forever, but I just made some changes based on what you pointed out. Thank you for the review! LeMeilleurMiel (talk) 01:43, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Review my work

Hi! Could someone kindly review the work I've done on the Vyommitra article? Thank you! Pinecone23 (talk) 23:56, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Looks good so far. Thanks for your help and all the best, Miniapolis 13:25, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! From a copy editing perspective, does it look finished? Personally, I cannot find any further issues that can be fixed by copy editing, but I want to double-check just to be sure I haven't missed anything. All the best to you, too. Pinecone23 (talk) 23:01, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Since it's barely start-class, I'd say it's done. All the best, Miniapolis 23:30, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Unable to copyedit full section

Hi! I've recently undertaken the article Yamajathakudu and managed to clean up half of the section marked for copyedit. however, after trying to decipher the second half of the plot summary, I decided that it was too confusing to continue. The phrases that got me stuck just clicked. I'm still curious: if I find myself in a situation where I am unable to copyedit everything in a section, what do I do? Do I place a template like {{GOCEreviewed}} or {{confusing}}? Do I roll back my edit? If not, do I still get points for the work I've done? Kindly, Pinecone23 (talk) 19:08, 10 July 2024 (UTC); edited 21:24, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

You've done quite a bit to make the plot summary more intelligible (as well as making it more succinct, hopefully without losing helpful nuance). If you get really stuck, the question of placing {{GOCEreviewed}}, along with a {{Cleanup}} tag, as is recommended, is an interesting one, because the latter tag overlaps quite a bit with what I consider copy editing. However, if you really can't make headway, I would considering reverting your edits, including replacing the copy edit tag, in order to leave the article to someone who might have better luck. Dhtwiki (talk) 06:21, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Restoring the article to its original state makes a lot of sense. I will keep that in mind for future articles during the drive. If I were to restore an article in that manner, do I leave a comment on the article's talk page explaining the revert(s)? Pinecone23 (talk) 08:31, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

You could leave an edit summary, as well as a note on the talk page. Also, if you have made real progress, but haven't completely copy edited the article, or section, you could just restore the copy edit tag, without reverting your edits. Dhtwiki (talk) 06:51, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Your insight is much appreciated! :-) Pinecone23 (talk) 22:42, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Word question

Does word count include templates? For now I'm not including them. Also, I just edited a 7000 word article, and it took half an hour. From looking at previous comments, it looks like I should have spent days, but it had only a few errors, and only in one section. Apollogetticax|^talk 02:48, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Most word counting only includes rendered text. That might include, say, citations, if you include the References section to be counted by whatever tool you're using. The recommended Wikipedia:Prosesize tool wouldn't count references, nor does it count text within lists or tables. You didn't go through all of Miskito grammar, which must be the article you are referencing. Applying Prosesize to that article, I get a word count of only 1624, which doesn't include text within tables, which you did not address, or you would have probably seen the need for better and more consistent punctuation, at the least. I also question your removal of text (an entire section, at one point) for being unsourced, as the entire article is without any inline citations. Otherwise, I see you making some intelligent choices. Dhtwiki (talk) 06:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

First of all, I am using Microsoft Word, as Prosesize isn't very accurate. Secondly, Miskito grammar is mostly tables. Thirdly, thanks for notifying me, I'll get to fixing the tables.

Also, that section I removed just didn't seem very encyclopedic or worthy to be included.

I'm confused. Should I count references? Apollogetticax|^talk 06:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

See the other discussion you started for a reply I just made, before I saw your followup here. As I said there, you usually don't count references, but if you've done considerable work on them, I think that it's fair to include references, as well. Dhtwiki (talk) 05:04, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Well, I don't do much with references in my copyediting, so I normally don't include them. Apollogetticax|^talk 06:03, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

words/rollover words

I'm confused as to how words/rollover words work–what's the difference, and how do I calculate them? Saturniapavonia (talk) 19:05, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. Please see WP:GOCE/DRIVE#Instructions for participants. Have fun and all the best, Miniapolis 22:28, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Review my work

Hi! I recently finished The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals after working on it for a few days. Could someone please review my work? Kindly, Pinecone23 (talk) 22:56, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

It looks good to me, especially by the number of edits and the explicitness of their edit summaries. I myself would have left "Charles Bell's" as you found it. I also would have separated image specs from text. That article shouldn't create problems, but if you were to have an image spec with text on both sides, without any spaces, the typo team's bot, which we work from, would likely flag it as an error, even though the text would render correctly. Dhtwiki (talk) 07:29, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback! I have separated the image specs from the text as suggested. For some reason I thought that it was customary to include the 's inside a wikilinks, but I cannot seem to find any information in the MoS. I do feel like excluding the 's disrupts the flow of a sentence as it kind of "chops up" the word. Kindly, Pinecone23 (talk) 10:40, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Copy editing questions

Hi! I am copy editing a list-class article on the Croatian War of Independence in film. The copy edit tag said the article "may require copy editing for untagged non-English text and proper names", which I did (along with a few other errors). I am feeling a little stuck due to my unfamiliarity with list-class articles and formatting translated text. I have two main questions:

1. When the original language title doesn't use punctuation, do I exclude it from the translated title too? Example: Glave dole ruke na leđa ("Heads down hands on your back") and Kaži zašto me ostavi ("Why Have You Left Me")
2. Are brackets and quotation marks, as shown above, the proper way to format a translated title?

Kindly, Pinecone23 (talk) 00:28, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

When supplying mere translations, I am apt to do as you've done, put the English translation in double quotations. However, when I'm translating film titles, which themselves deserve italics, which are automatically supplied by the template you're using, I put the translated title in italics as well. Dhtwiki (talk) 06:33, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

That makes sense. Thank you! Kindly, Pinecone23 (talk) 13:56, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

GOCE Hall of Fame

Could you clarify if my performance during September 2024 qualifies for inclusion in the GOCE Hall of Fame? If not, could you provide guidance on where I may be falling short? Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 00:37, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

While your efforts this past month were extraordinary and did much to help us to have the best month since sometime in 2020, IIRC, the people in the Hall of Fame have done work over an extended period of time and can (at least sometimes) claim millions in terms of word-count totals (some who can claim millions are not on that list, if I'm not mistaken). The rationale for each entrant is a part of each entry, I believe. If you have somehow been overlooked, then let us know how your statistics are equal to those who have gone before. Dhtwiki (talk) 07:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Has anyone managed to lead all five categories with 213 total articles, over 139,000 words, 35 old articles, 13 long articles, and the largest article for a single month? I notice Lftstevens leads in three categories with 202 articles, over 132,000 words, and 8 long articles. I’m not asking for their removal, just for my efforts to be acknowledged. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 10:33, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I think you misunderstand the purpose of the HOF and, frankly, there are copyedits and there are copyedits; large word and article counts don't necessarily mean good copyediting, which is more than chasing barnstars. Stick around a while and we'll see. Thanks for your help and all the best, Miniapolis 13:51, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

The purpose of my participation was not chasing barnstars. I spent every bit of my free time during that month on this effort, which is how I achieved those numbers. I had hoped that the Hall of Fame is not limited to only a secluded few and that anyone with good effort can achieve that feat. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 14:25, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your copy editing work. As with most things on Wikipedia, the work is intended to be its own reward. The barnstars and leaderboards are mostly for fun, and to provide motivation for those who are motivated by such things. We hope that you will continue your work for the Guild. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:59, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Review

Can someone review Pagalil Pournami? I made a large removal (-722 bytes) which seems a bit suspicious. Thanks, 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 (My "blotter") 09:01, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

It looks pretty good to me. It looks like one of those film articles where editors get somewhat ambitious in describing the plot, and that section can often use quite a bit of trimming. I might have left in "influential person", rather than omitting the former word, as that would help explain how they could threaten "harm" (also, "fateful day" might have been left alone, as well as "malevolent ghost"). However, things such as digressing to give a lengthy explanation of "denouement", while admirably scholarly, are definitely not needed. Another thing you might consider is that when expanding initialisms, such as "DSP" to "deputy superintendent of police", you include the initialism in parenthesis, especially when it is used later in the article (see the Cast section). Anyway, thank you for your efforts on this article. Some of these movie plot sections can be difficult to untangle, especially when one hasn't seen the movie in question. Dhtwiki (talk) 23:11, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

 Fixed Thanks for the review! 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 (My "blotter") 04:06, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Page move - before or after?

While copy editing Korolenko Chernihiv Regional Universal Scientific Library, I found out that the name of the library had been changed in 2023. Should I move the page right away or wait until all my copy edits are done and/or the Drive is over? --Nsophiay (talk) 21:14, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Your call, IMO. Thanks for your help and all the best, Miniapolis 22:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I don't see what name it has been changed to or the source that describes such a name change. Such a name change would be more the province of the subject-matter editors, and they haven't attempted a name change, although there are several edits throughout 2023. If you are interested in changing the article title, I don't think it matters at what point in your copy editing you do so, but I would have a reliable source to point to and even preliminarily start a talk page discussion, in case there are any objections. Dhtwiki (talk) 22:47, 9 November 2024 (UTC)