Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Coordinators

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March 2024 drive

I've started setting up the March drive page. I've selected December 2022 through February 2023 (66, 102, 100 articles, respectively) for the backlog and November 2023 through February 2024 (2, 18, 23, 20) for requests (leaving aside the unfinished October article, which we should be sure to finish by then, as well as two November ones that are already in the hands of experienced copy editors). Dhtwiki (talk) 07:56, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

March 2024 barnstars

The barnstar page is done and ready for distribution; thanks, Baffle, for setting it up. All the best, Miniapolis 17:03, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No worries; sorry I didn't get around to completing the data entry, my wiki-head has been elsewhere. Best wishes and cheers, Baffle☿gab 02:26, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've distributed the barnstars, except for mine and those for User:Learnerktm, which should be discussed, as they did considerabl work on Italy, a very long article, but not all edits were helpful, and their copy edit can't be considered complete (I've taken the article as a request and have found lots to do). They have claimed leaderboard barnstars, but there is no credit taken in the signup section. How should credit be given here? Dhtwiki (talk) 09:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Don't get me started about copyediting quality; a number of editors seem to go for the barnstars. However, Learnerktm listed their copyedit in the signup section. When I got started here, I cut my teeth on a long request article (as we encourage new copyeditors not to do) and it turned out all right. Assuming good faith, as I think we can do here, we shouldn't make the perfect the enemy of the good. I'll do yours but will hold off on Learnerktm, although it seems to be between you and me

All the best, Miniapolis 23:37, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to AGF and give Learnerktm the barnstars claimed, with the hope that he takes on board the advice received. All the best, Miniapolis 13:28, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On second thought, and since the article is still on the requests page, I've changed my mind. Miniapolis 13:38, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am thinking that 1/4 credit (i.e. ~5k words) (and probably no leaderboard barnstars) would be appropriate for the work done. Dhtwiki (talk) 05:48, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have completed my calculations and handed out the appropriate barnstars. Dhtwiki (talk) 09:36, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

March April newsletter

Hi all, I've taken the liberty of starting a newsletter for March here. Feel free to add / remove / fix anything, I'll be filling out the stats over the next few days. i haven't gathered any request page stats since January so I need to do some catching up! Cheers, Baffle☿gab 07:32, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Since it's so close to the end of the month, and with the annual report top sheet having been sent out so recently (on the 16th), I propose we post-date this newsletter to April and send it out then. We had an April newsletter in 2022. So, there's recent precedence. Dhtwiki (talk) 03:07, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. All the best, Miniapolis 17:34, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll try to complete the newsletter, to be sent out before the April blitz starts (see below). Dhtwiki (talk) 09:38, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Finishing touches are being made to the newsletter, which should go out soon. Final perusals are welcome. Dhtwiki (talk) 09:14, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me, I've just updated the progress report and added the blitz dates. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 23:20, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for giving the blitz dates; that might be important. Sent newsletter at 23:19 UTC, and it reached my talk page almost immediately. Dhtwiki (talk) 23:24, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No problem; and I just spotted a mistake in the election news line; too late, ever mind! :o Cheers, Baffle☿gab 00:20, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Other than the reelection of a "lead" coordinator not being mentioned (and that was somewhat deliberate for the sake of conciseness as well as modesty), I don't see the mistake regarding the coordinator election. Dhtwiki (talk) 03:21, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe I'm being picky but Incumbents Dhtwiki and Miniapolis were reelected coordinators, and Wracking was newly elected coordinator, to serve through 30 June. should be: "Wracking was newly elected as a coordinator"; and I think "until" or "to" should follow "through" – it reads to me as though coordinators serve only for one day. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 04:37, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think that "as (a)" could be used in both clauses, but its omission doesn't destroy the sense. Using "through until/to" doesn't make clear that the 30th is included as well as does "the convenient American use...[which] is still strange to us" (per the British H. W. Fowler) of "through" by itself. Dhtwiki (talk) 04:03, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinators emeriti

@Miniapolis, Wracking, and Baffle gab1978: I would like to add Baffle gab's name to the list of coordinators emeriti for their many terms served as coordinator and for the coordinator-type work they continue to do (setting up drive and blitz pages, curating newsletters and reports, and taking good care of the requests page, above and beyond the enormous amount of copy editing they do there). Can I have your okay to do so? Dhtwiki (talk) 05:56, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dhtwiki, you have my strongest possible support! All the best, Miniapolis 13:53, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Baffle's Tireless Contributor Barnstar spun off its axis long ago. Reidgreg (talk) 17:47, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, absolutely!! Wracking ^talk! 01:25, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, of course. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:22, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks all for your support and kind words; I take a neutral stance on this and it's not something I've personally sought out or encouraged. The GOCE is a team and I'm just here to help out. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 23:43, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 2024 drive

I've started the May 2024 drive page. I've included January through March 2023 from the backlog (28, 49, 83 articles, respectively) and January through April 2024 from the requests page (1 (Italy is done), 9, 33, 21, respectively, as of this writing). Dhtwiki (talk) 06:43, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 2024 barnstars

The barnstar table is up and ready for distribution; thanks, Baffle, for creating the page. All the best, Miniapolis 16:19, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for making the calculations. Except for mine, the barnstars have been distributed. Dhtwiki (talk) 09:13, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The script and I have been getting along better

, and you have yours. Thanks and all the best, Miniapolis 00:44, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June nl

Hi all, I've created the June newsletter page here, feel free to add/remove/edit stuff there. My RL is a bit busy now but I'll work on it when I can. It might be good to sent it between 1 and 7 June to spruik the election but it's up to you, really. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 00:56, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. The newsletter went out on June 6 last year when the blitz was from the 11th to the 17th, which seems quite early. Although, with coordinator nominations beginning on the 1st and voting on the 15th, ending on the 30th, an early newsletter seems appropriate. However, the June blitz (which would be in the future in such a letter) might be held later (the equivalent week this year is from the 9th to the 15th). Dhtwiki (talk) 02:45, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. The number of copy edit tagging that has taken place in the last two months has been enormous (544 in April, 181 so far in May). We should be considering how to deal with it. Our bad trend line is about to get much worse. Dhtwiki (talk) 02:49, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dhtwiki, the May tagging may be due to the current NPP backlog drive. All the best, Miniapolis 23:26, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Baffle. I'd like it to go out early and, hopefully, improve participation in the elections (and encourage potential coordinators). All the best, Miniapolis 15:59, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dhtwiki, I'm not sure how we could reduce the number of c/e taggings; one tedious way would be to triage each tagging and remove / re-tag inappropriately tagged articles. I used to do this before each drive but it's too much work for me now. Another way might be to amend {{copy edit}} with guidance for appropriate use. Unfortunately, some drive-by taggers don't seem to understand the difference between {{cleanup}} and copy edit, and many probably don't care. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 21:11, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That was my suspicion, too, about NPP increasing our backlog. I can work on cleaning up the more recent categories (April/May) for appropriateness of tag. Wracking ^talk! 23:54, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(←) Thanks all; I've added the June Blitz dates and May stats to the newsletter. I think it's ready to send now; please feel free to add, correct or remove stuff if necessary. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 05:37, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I've checked it and sent it, at 07:18 UTC, to 763 accounts. I was toying with the idea of adding an apostrophe to the title, to read "Guild of Copy Editors' April 2024 Newsletter". I also thought of adding text that coordinator candidates should be experienced copy editors, because I think that is really a requirement to be a successful coordinator. But I left things as they were. Thoughts for the future, perhaps. Dhtwiki (talk) 07:27, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Dhtwiki. I've been tempted to add the same in the past but I'm not sure the project's title should be possessive. I think an editor who's not so experienced with copy-editing but is willing, competent and skilled at other behind-the-scenes tasks would be fine. OTOH, an editor who is familiar with this project's culture and processes wouldn't need as much help with coordinator tasks, so I guess it's swings and roundabouts there. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 22:03, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, this newsletter went out with four syntax errors in it. I have posted a request for someone to fix it for us with AWB. I recommend turning on the syntax highlighter gadget, which can alert you to this sort of problem. I find that it also makes copy editing easier, since it is easier to distinguish between prose and references and templates. YMMV. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:26, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It wasn't evident in the rendering, though (the mistakes were all opening boldface markup within wikilinks; so, the scope of the closing markup within those links must have been limited in scope, otherwise the mistakes would have been obvious by the presence of a large amount of inappropriately boldfaced text). Dhtwiki (talk) 23:34, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see that the boldfacing helps to distinguish important links, and I just did not notice its absence. I see that you have a taker to fix this at AWB requests. If it doesn't get taken care of soon, I may try my AWB (via JWB) skills to fix it. Dhtwiki (talk) 00:37, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, the engine that detects Linter errors can't tell whether the unbalanced syntax affects the rendering, so we have to fix all of the false positives along with the ones that actually break rendering. It's a little bit useless, but so is a lot of the gnoming that keeps this place from going completely to the dogs. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:28, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jonesey; that's probably my fault, I should have checked it more closely and I'm sorry for causing you extra work. I almost always work in a browser without JavaScript for security / sanity reasons, so a gadget wouldn't have been helpful in this case. I'll try to do better next time. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 02:54, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IP editor indiscriminately using copy edit template

As we've seen, our backlog has been increasing much faster in the past two months. I believe one culprit is an IP editor who has both personally requested editors to copy edit Indonesian/Singaporean media articles and tagged those articles en masse. (They were told at one point to tag articles; they clearly took that suggestion to heart as they have tagged as many as dozens of articles per day.)

I reached out to this editor on 17 May and 21 May (today), asking them to stop. (I am assuming the IPs are the same user.)

I have reverted most of their additions of the {{copy edit}} tag, though it looks like they have also reverted some themselves.

I'm getting out of my depth here, but based on the WHOIS, it seems like this editor may also have a COI.

Insights appreciated. Wracking ^talk! 17:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A similar IP 36.69.19.182 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) Wracking ^talk! 20:59, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Thanks for bringing this up, Wracking. Reporting to COIN or AN might be worthwhile but I don't think there's much we can do here. If the articles actually need a copy-edit, the tag is being properly added; if the articles are being inappropriately tagged, there may be a case for reporting it as disruption to the encyclopaedia if the IP user has been warned to stop their tagging but continues. If the articles are universally poor, they can be advised to use {{Cleanup}} or another more appropriate template. Sadly, not everyone understands the nuanced difference between the ways we process templates. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 21:02, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the articles are actually in fine shape, and require no copy editing or minimal cleanup—that's the basis on which I have removed the tags. In a few (very few!) cases, I have let the tags stand. In a post by yet another IP (36.76.0.174 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)), they indicate that they would like other editors to expand/overhaul certain articles. Wracking ^talk! 21:09, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is quite disruptive then, I wonder if they could be an undeclared paid editor? The IP user seems to have poor English skills, so they may not know good English from poor. What do the other coordinators think? Cheers, Baffle☿gab 21:44, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't help (and may be indicative of something) that they're not using edit summaries. All the best, Miniapolis 22:26, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 2024 blitz

The blitz page is already up, thanks again to Baffle. I've penciled in the week of the 9th to the 15th, but that seems rather early. Should it be the following week (16th to the 22nd)? February (14 articles) and March (30) 2023 are the backlog months I've set. As of this writing, there are 65 requests (February to June 2024, with three being worked on and liable for completion by blitz start). Dhtwiki (talk) 08:16, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks both, and I agree that the 9th to the 15th is too early. I'll x-out the dates until we decide for sure, to reduce confusion. All the best, Miniapolis 13:19, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Since no one has objected and the weekend is coming up, I'll set the dates as the 16th to the 22nd. All the best, Miniapolis 23:28, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've posted an announcement to the community bulletin board. So, with the newsletter mailed, we should be set up for the near future. Dhtwiki (talk) 08:10, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstars

The barnstar page is ready to be checked and for awards to be distributed. Dhtwiki (talk) 05:29, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've distributed most of the barnstars (except for my own). Dhtwiki (talk) 03:51, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All have now been distributed. Dhtwiki (talk) 08:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry; I've been busy IRL, and won't be around much until Sunday. All the best, Miniapolis 17:45, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 2024 drive

I've created a drive page. February (3), March (6), and April (129) 2023, are the backlog months. March (1, 1 working), April (12, 2 working, 1 done), May (27), June (24) 2024 are outstanding requests as of now. Should any of that be adjusted? Dhtwiki (talk) 05:36, 26 June 2024 (UTC) (edited 05:44, 26 June 2024 (UTC))[reply]

No, Dhtwiki, it sounds good. Thanks and all the best, Miniapolis 13:26, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The barnstar table is up; thanks, Baffle, for creating the page. All the best, Miniapolis 13:51, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstars have been distributed, except for my own. Dhtwiki (talk) 02:55, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September newsletter

Hi all, I've created the September newsletter here, feel free to add anything that needs to go out in Sept. I may add some data if I can. I'm also planning to start working on the annual report soon, so I'll let you know when it's created. I'm currently taking a short break from article space but I'll be around in the background if I'm needed. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 06:48, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The newsletter seems about ready to be sent, possibly after the Watchlist Message announcing the drive is taken down, which should be soon, in order that there not be temporal overlap. The only thing that might need changing is to update the number of requests completed (it's presently current as of August 30). Dhtwiki (talk) 23:06, 4 September 2024 (UTC) (edited 02:51, 5 September 2024 (UTC))[reply]

Thanks, I'll update that tonight, then it should be ready to send in the morning. Hopefully there won't be any stoopid coding errors like last time... --> my fault! Perhaps @Jonesey95: could check that one for us... tia. :) Cheers, Baffle☿gab 23:37, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me. Remember to add a signature when you send it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:21, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Other than Cheers from Baffle gab1978 and your GOCE coordinators Dhtwiki, Miniapolis and Wracking. (the previous newsletter doesn't have a signature other than that) or what the mass-message form requires? Dhtwiki (talk) 05:45, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure that the lack of a standard time stamp will prevent the section from being archived by archive bots. When I was given mass message instructions long ago, the instructions were to include four tildes at the bottom of the message in order to put a date stamp on it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Baffle gab1978 has just sent the newsletter. The signature after the newsletter reads: Message sent by Baffle gab1978 (talk) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:53, 11 September 2024 (UTC) [reply] That seems too complex for just adding four tildes. How was that signature added? Dhtwiki (talk) 06:30, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Beneath the nl code, I just added "Message sent by {{subst:User0|Baffle gab1978}} using ~~~~." Cheers, Baffle☿gab 21:55, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At the mass-message sender page? I remember merely linking to the newsletter in a field given, along with filling in fields for a subject line as well as a link to the list of recipients. Below those fields are places for extraneous additions, which I have never used. You didn't add anything at the newsletter page. Dhtwiki (talk) 09:32, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, when you import the message into the sender, you'll see the message displayed, then the resulting code in a non-editable window called "Wikitext preview". Now scroll down the page to "Send mass message"; below the options, you'll see a large, empty box titled "Body of the message", which is editable. Any text added there it will be appended to the message, and that's where you'd normally add four tildes to ensure archiving occurs. I just added a little extra text, per above. Make sure to preview the result before sending.

By the way, Idk about other bots but here, Lowercase sigmabot III archived an unsigned newsletter from Miniapolis' talk in May, so I'm not sure a sig is even necessary for archiving. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 21:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, that archived newsletter does have a valid UTC date stamp in it, so I don't know if a missing signature was a problem there. I have always used instructions that I wrote for myself years ago. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:45, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(←) FWIW, I manually archive old stuff (including the January newsletter). To be on the safe side, I add four tildes to anything I send via MassMessage. All the best, Miniapolis 22:45, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From my talk page, Lowercase sigmabot III archived the unsigned April newsletter, with the talk page removal shown here, but I had to manually archive the 2023 Annual Report, talk page removal shown here. Dhtwiki (talk) 05:47, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

August 2024 blitz

The August blitz page is here. Two weeks are likely: August 11–17 and 18–24, with the latter week ending a full week before September 1. Although I've included ~~April 2023 (3 articles)~~, May (86), and June (133) in the backlog to be addressed, we might limit ourselves to the first two months. Requests stand at 3 remaining from April 2024 (2 being worked on), 22 from May, 23 from June, 20 from July, and 6, so far, from August. Dhtwiki (talk) 23:27, 6 August 2024 (UTC) (edited 08:44, 13 August 2024 (UTC))[reply]

Thanks, Dhtwiki. The 18th to the 24th works better for me because of a family visit the previous week, and April and May 2023 make more sense. All the best, Miniapolis 18:57, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. I will set the blitz up for the latter dates. That will leave more time to finalize the blitz and make for earlier notifications with relation to the start date. Dhtwiki (talk) 05:21, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We may want to emphasize May and June requests, since there are still quite a few. All the best, Miniapolis 13:51, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will see about limiting the requests from "all" (which is the usual), to May and June, although leaving the larger range theoretically allows people to have greater freedom to choose from what interests them the most. Dhtwiki (talk) 23:42, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I now see that you have already made changes, which I will leave alone. Dhtwiki (talk) 23:46, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I sympathize with editors whose older requests are skipped

. All the best, Miniapolis 23:34, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I myself try to take oldest requests first, even if the subject matter of newer requests naturally holds more interest. I regard that as one of my duties as a coordinator. Dhtwiki (talk) 08:53, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have just had a look at the last three articles of the April 2023 backlog and struck their copy editing tags, as well as having reduced the announced ranges for the blitz. Those articles have had a lot of work done since being tagged, e.g. Amanda Waller having none of the issues caught by the March 2023 Database Report which prompted its being tagged, and do not now seem in need of a full copy edit. Dhtwiki (talk) 08:44, 13 August 2024 (UTC) (edited 08:47, 13 August 2024 (UTC))[reply]

Barnstars

I have calculated the barnstars. Please check and distribute. Dhtwiki (talk) 07:10, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thanks and all the best, Miniapolis 13:31, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

September drive

Guess it's time to throw something together. Howzabout the May and June 2023 backlog and May and June 2024 requests? All the best, Miniapolis 23:37, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have set up the drive page and made various announcements (except for the request for a watchlist announcement, which I usually wait until nearer the time to post). Dhtwiki (talk) 09:09, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstars

The barnstar page is done, and they're ready for distribution; thanks, Baffle, for creating it. All the best, Miniapolis 17:41, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, both. I have given out most of the barnstars, all but my own. Dhtwiki (talk) 08:58, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done, and thanks. All the best, Miniapolis 12:19, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Working on Article: Tagged as Copyedit for Quotes| September Drive

Hi, I'm working on a text in an article tagged under the copyedit template for the September backlog drive. The Scientific Method article that I am working on falls under the copyedit (in-line) template. It is tagged for the quotation and the reasoning in the template is as follows:

"this paragraph consists of many quotations that are not worked into the text very well."

However, the Wikipedia guideline/guide's article for basic copyediting mentions being careful of changing the quotes. However, the said text I would have to change conflicts with another one of Wikipedia's guidelines: over quotation. This means to remove and fix the reasoning for which the template was added, I would have to change the whole paragraph and change most if all the quotations.

Not only this, I would be forced to block quote the long quotes if I were to keep some. However, most editors advise to use the Block Quotes sparingly. The mention of block quotes being used for long quotes can be seen here.

I am aware Wikipedia's guidelines tells us to be bold but I don't want to mess up a good article by misunderstanding the guidelines. This leads to my question being: does the text for which the template is tagged for in the article still fall under the definition of copyediting? The definition of copyediting is commonly defined as making the article cohesive and fixing any tense, spelling, or grammar errors found in the article.

If it does fall under the definition of copyediting, could you tell me the reasoning behind why it would be, and if there are any guidelines for this, could you link them for me so I can use them for future reference?

If it is not considered to be under copyediting, can I remove the copyedit template, and add the over quotation template? Here is the template I want to add. I am adding it here so you don't have to search for it:

Additional Note: The whole reason I am asking this question is because the two Wikipedia guidelines conflict with each other. That's why I am asking for your advice to see if I can proceed with the article and to be able to get the points for the drive (if it does fall under copyediting lol). Reader of Information (talk) 14:55, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pings:

@Miniapolis

@Mox Eden

@Wracking Reader of Information (talk) 15:05, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd add the over-quotation tag, with parameters for section and number of quotes (rather than quote length); the paragraph also has stylistic issues which can be addressed by copyediting. Thanks for your help and all the best, Miniapolis 20:31, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Reader of Information:, I would completely remove that paragraph because it is uncited, per WP:VERIFY (direct quotations must be directly cited). Our readers should be able to verify quoted material. Explain the removal in your edit summary. If you are reverted, explain the removal on the talk page, per WP:BRD. If you're not game to remove it, place {{cn}} after each quotation. IMO, it's not worth your time to copy-edit uncited material. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 21:13, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. I will do this and then mark it as completed under the drive. Reader of Information (talk) 22:01, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Copy Editing Limits | September Drive

Hi all, I am working on the Gülen movement page for the drive because it was in the *O section, but frankly a lot of the article needs reorganization and rewriting as opposed to just copy editing that I saw when I looked at others contributions to the drive. Should I just get the currently written text up to standard and then reorganize it later? Is reorganizing part of copy editing? Another page that I fixed up a little bit (Advanced Air Mobility) has a talk page comment for merging with other better written articles that I agree with, that feels beyond the scope of this project, but I don't know.

I am just looking for a bit of guidance on this topic. Moritoriko (talk) 06:34, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I took a quick look at the article before you made your further changes today, and the text both before and after you copy edited seemed intelligible, without the real grammatical goofiness that makes an article practically unreadable. If you have found that further reorganization and rewriting is needed, then that is a part of copy editing. I found the article somewhat chopped up into small paragraphs (especially in the lead) and sections. Even though not a real deficiency, I would consider that a bit of consolidation is in order. I noticed that you have removed a lot of material. You seem to have discovered redundancies across articles, if not within the article, that need to be addressed. I hope that you haven't discarded information that existed only at that article. There has been a lot of back-and-forth massive adding and subtracting of text in that article's history, and its size is only about 200 words less than when the tag was placed.

As far as being engaged in discussions on merging, that is not a part of copy editing, although now, with your acquaintance with the article, you probably can effectively contribute to such a discussion, if you are interested. Dhtwiki (talk) 06:23, 6 September 2024 (UTC) (edited 06:26, 6 September 2024 (UTC))[reply]

Thank you for pointing out that some information might have only existed in this article, I had only skimmed the schools article before I rewrote the section. I moved some information that I had deleted to that one where it can be dealt with later. A lot of what I removed was duplicated information, often character for character formatting mistakes included. That seems to be par for the course with an article a topic this contentious. I will declare the article done for now. Moritoriko (talk) 07:55, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Annual report

I've created the page for the Annual Report here; atm it's just a holding page but I plan to work on it soon. If anyone wants to add stuff there, feel free, or you could just stick it on the talk page for now. I'll add all the usual gubbins, formatting etc, when ICBA. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 02:49, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

October 2024 blitz

I have started the October blitz page. I have picked the week of the 13th to the 19th; the 20th to the 26th is the only other full week left to us. For the backlog, June 2023, with 37 articles, and July 2023, with 83, would seem to be enough. Outstanding requests comprise 11 from June 2024 (with 5 being worked on), 13 from July, 20 from August, 23 from September, and 4, so far, from October. We should limit the request months, possibly to the first two, although I have "all" penciled in at the blitz page. Dhtwiki (talk) 06:26, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Dhtwiki, and I agree that we should limit the request months so less-attractive requests don't languish on the vine. All the best, Miniapolis 13:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstars

Baffle started the barnstar page, and I have calculated the entries. Please check and distribute. Dhtwiki (talk) 02:05, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thanks both and all the best, Miniapolis 22:38, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator tasks on election pages

I'm just setting up the December election page. While reviewing, the list of coordinator duties seems somewhat outdated. The current list is:

Here are some examples of coordinator duties:

manage the proposal and creation of new task forces;

ensure project announcements and task lists are kept up-to-date;

initiate drafting of guidelines needed by the project;

organize the category system;

oversee the recruitment of new members, including the use of project notices and other advertising methods;

create and maintain any collaborative projects;

maintain the project pages and the guidelines on them in a clean and easy-to-use state;

monitor technical policies and ensure project templates satisfy them; and

assist in organizing and promoting any Backlog Elimination Drives and Blitzes.

The lines I've identified in bold seem out of date and not relevant to the ways we work these days. I wonder if they should be rewritten in a more meaningful way, perhaps based on the task list, to reflect what we actually do here. Any thorts? Cheers, Baffle☿gab 05:48, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for both, Baffle. I think "initiate drafting of guidelines needed by the project" and "monitor technical policies and ensure project templates satisfy them" can be rewritten as "draft guidelines needed by the project" and "monitor technical policies and ensure that project templates are in compliance", respectively; the other bolded duties can be deleted. With few workers in a large vineyard, we need to work smart. All the best, Miniapolis 13:48, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My quick opinion as a multi-year coordinator (now emeritus) is that all of the bold ones could be deleted. I'm happy with rewrites of one or two if others want to keep them. I would also increase emphasis on the drives and blitzes, and on tracking backlog progress and monitoring the requests page, since that has been the main coordinator work for the last few years, AFAICT. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:31, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you both, I'll copy the list into my user space and draft a rejigged version. Pinging the other coordinators @Wracking and Mox Eden:, do you have anything to add here? It's now drafted at my user space. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 19:01, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The list could do with better definitions and more specificity. What task forces did we ever have? I can only imagine, having joined in 2014, that at the creation of the guild/league/whatever there were groups of people who, say, set up the templates and scripts that we now take for granted. Should we have reserve powers in that regard, in case we need new task forces? How did we ever "organize" the category system? I monitor the backlog categories and work to remove articles that creep in when, say, a tag is converted to a copy-edit one, without changing the date, but I don't really organize the categories. "Create" collaborative projects? We might represent the guild in collaborative discussions with other wikiprojects, but we don't create such collaborations on our own. We could do with a centralized list of things to monitor and maintain (e.g. the database dump, in collaboration with the typo team, or the redirects from other templates that we have taken on recently). Et cetera. Dhtwiki (talk) 21:24, 19 October 2024 (UTC) (edited 21:25, 19 October 2024 (UTC))[reply]

The above list doesn't include newsletters or other reports as far as I can tell. Shouldn't it? BlueMoonset (talk) 00:50, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Our current instructions, at the drive and blitz pages, suggest that a newsletter be sent out at the end of every such event, when in fact we now only send them out on a quarterly basis. So, yes, we should move such instructions from those event pages to a more centralized place. Dhtwiki (talk) 07:44, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have just removed the "Create a newsletter" instructions from the drive and blitz pages. An adaptation could be placed with the general coordinator instructions, such as:

Create a quarterly newsletter with highlights of previous events, as well as announcements of upcoming ones, and have it sent out by someone with permission to use Special:MassMessage. See this sample quarterly newsletter.

Dhtwiki (talk) 23:23, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) I checked the records; this is old material; it originates at the first GOCE election in December 2010, long before I joined. It was later split into its current list format. It's obvious the GOCE has changed a lot since 2010, though I wouldn't mind the level of participation back then! Cheers, Baffle☿gab 00:56, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just under 500 guild members back then, and the election of coordinators seems more like a Request for Adminship. Now we have over 750 and the coordinators seem to just elect each other without much, if any, support from the non-coordinator side. Voter turnout has plummeted. That election seems close to, but not quite at, the big bang moment of creation, as the lead coordinator writes of having found the guild in a disorganized state and given it some form. Dhtwiki (talk) 08:18, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IIRC, that was the transition period between the League of Copy Editors and its revival as the GOCE. I wish more editors were interested in maintaining the guild, which is better for improving the encyclopedia than drive-by copyediting. All the best, Miniapolis 13:26, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(←) I agree with Baffle; there was a lot more enthusiasm (maybe a bit too much) back in the day. Think I joined the guild around January 2011, and nowadays only a couple of folks are doing the heavy lifting so we need to work smart – not hard. BlueMoonset, would you like to help out as a coordinator? All the best, Miniapolis 13:44, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Miniapolis, unfortunately, January through June 2025 will be crunch time for me on a major project, with no time for other responsibilities. I could probably serve July through December 2025 as a coordinator, if there's need. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:01, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, BlueMoonset; there's always a need. Don't work too hard and all the best, Miniapolis 20:28, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draft 1

Thanks for your responses; I've cobbled together a draft of the section; the bolded lines represent replacement examples (except for verb-tense changes). Feel free to edit; I've left a copy of this at my sandbox if it's needed.

Here are some examples of coordinator duties:

monitoring the project's Main, Coordinators and Requests talk pages, and responding to questions and comments there

ensuring project announcements and task lists are kept up-to-date

drafting of guidelines needed by the project

monitoring and maintaining the Requests page and the category Wikipedia articles needing copy edit

overseeing the recruitment of new members, including the use of project notices and other advertising methods

creating, finalizing and distributing regular newsletters, annual reports and other project announcements

maintaining the project pages and the guidelines on them in a clean and easy-to-use state

updating statistics on outward-facing project pages and

assisting with organizing and promoting any Backlog Elimination Drives, Blitzes and twice-annual coordinator elections.

Cheers, Baffle☿gab 02:54, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest having "assisting with organizing and promoting any Backlog Elimination..." moved up, possibly to first place, and made both more general and more specific:

assisting with organizing and promoting any editathons:
- month-long Backlog Elimination Drives held during odd-numbered months
- week-long Blitzes held in even-numbered months during Sunday–Saturday mid-month weeks to be determined nearer the time

We should add the drive and blitz talk pages to

monitoring the project's Main, Coordinators and Requests talk pages, and responding to questions and comments there;

as that is where many questions arise.

There is vagueness and overlap among:

ensuring project announcements and task lists are kept up-to-date;
drafting of guidelines needed by the project;
overseeing the recruitment of new members, including the use of project notices and other advertising methods;
maintaining the project pages and the guidelines on them in a clean and easy-to-use state;

We could have more specificity, such as mentioning that the newsletters are quarterly and what project announcements are meant, here:

creating, finalizing and distributing regular newsletters, annual reports and other project announcements;

or what is to be looked for, such as requesters exceeding their limit or not being of sufficient standing, or of ancient articles creeping into the backlog, here:

monitoring and maintaining the Requests page and the category Wikipedia articles needing copy edit;

Be more specific about what constitutes:

updating statistics on outward-facing project pages;

and have this line be closer to what generates the statistics, such as the drives and blitzes.

Dhtwiki (talk) 04:57, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Dhtwiki; that's a lot of thorts and I will look through these suggestions later today when i have more wiki-time. :) Cheers, Baffle☿gab 09:33, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've now reviewed the above and have drafted a new version below. I've bolded my changes from the first draft. I think we should keep this list fairly short and concise, we could direct those looking for more details to the task list. I also removed the semicolons except one, which looks cleaner but odd to me. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 08:49, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draft 2

Here are some examples of coordinator duties:

assisting with the organizing and promotion of regular editathons:
month-long Backlog Elimination Drives held during odd-numbered months

week-long Blitzes held Sunday-to-Saturday in even-numbered months, on mid-month weeks to be decided in advance

updating statistics on the main project page

monitoring the project's main talk pages (Main, Requests and Coordinators), and talk pages of any ongoing editathons, and responding to questions and comments there

ensuring project announcements in the ombox and task lists are kept up-to-date

drafting of guidelines needed by the project

monitoring and maintaining the Requests page and the category Wikipedia articles needing copy edit

overseeing the recruitment of new members, including the use of project notices and other advertising methods

creating, finalizing and distributing quarterly newsletters and annual reports

maintaining the project pages and the guidelines on them in a clean and easy-to-use state; and

creating, promoting, opening, updating and closing twice-annual coordinator elections.

Cheers, Baffle☿gab 08:49, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

...organizing, promotion, and monitoring of regular editathons:

make clear that the daily updating the "Progress Chart" of relative drives and blitzes is one of the more, if not the most of, urgent tasks (at least for those who have given themselves the duty).

week-long Blitzes...on a mid-month week...

so as not to imply that a blitz lasts longer than one week, although that might have been made clear upfront.

updating statistics on...main project page

we might list the statistics page that is transcluded onto that page: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Guild_of_Copy_Editors/Progress

monitoring the project's main talk pages...

not really urgent business and could be lower down.

ensuring project announcements...

this has mainly to do with drives and blitzes being announced; "task lists" is vague and refers to what?

drafting of guidelines needed by the project

this is vague, non-urgent, and should be lower down.

monitoring and maintaining...requests and backlog

this is vague; what it entails on the requests page involves policing editors' exceeding request limits, determing articles in too much flux, answering questions re the scope of copy editing, etc., and thus could be more specific; with regard to the backlog involves fixing articles that have been dated to months long since covered, as well as the typo team database report, which could use an item all to itself.

overseeing the recruitment of new members...

we have the members; we need more participation in drives in blitzes.

creating, finalizing and distributing quarterly newsletters and annual reports

we might say that, more-or-less, March, June, September, and December are presently the newsletter months and that January is what we try for when issuing the annual report, with links to sample versions of each.

maintaining the project pages and the guidelines on them...

vague; we could be more specific about exactly what pages are meant.

...twice-annual coordinator elections

this is fairly urgent and probably should not be last.

Dhtwiki (talk) 05:32, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your feedback, Dhtwiki. I thought this list was intended to be a brief summary of duties, so some vagueness is to be expected. We can (and should, IMO) refer prospective candidates to the full tasks list. I think we need to strike a balance between granularity, and ease of reading and navigating the page. I'll put some time into a new redraft, probably later today. It is getting there, I think. :) Cheers, Baffle☿gab 06:05, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I had forgotten about the "Task list" page. Why don't we refer people to that page with just a few of the most important tasks (setting up, maintaining, and answering questions regarding the drive and blitz pages) being mentioned on the elections page, where trying to summarize all the tasks in a vague way seems somewhat fruitless to me? Dhtwiki (talk) 22:59, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks; yes I think we should do that. I'm going to draft another copy below. It can probably be refined and simplified as needed. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 09:02, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draft 3

Here are some examples of coordinator duties:

assisting with the organizing and promotion of regular editathons:
month-long Backlog Elimination Drives held in odd-numbered months

week-long Blitzes held Sunday-to-Saturday on a mid-month week in even-numbered months to be decided in advance

updating statistics on the progress chart

monitoring the project's main talk pages (Main, Requests and Coordinators), and talk pages of any ongoing editathons, and responding to questions and comments there

creating, promoting and holding twice-yearly coordinator elections.

ensuring project announcements in the ombox and task lists are kept up-to-date

drafting of guidelines needed by the project

monitoring and maintaining the Requests page and the category Wikipedia articles needing copy edit

encouraging the participation of new and extant members, including the use of project notices and other advertising methods

creating, finalizing and distributing quarterly newsletters and annual reports; and

maintaining the project pages and the guidelines on them in a clean and easy-to-use state.

Here is a full list of tasks for GOCE coordinators. Feel free to ask questions at the Coordinators talk page.

Cheers, Baffle☿gab 09:02, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(←) Since comments on this draft have not been forthcoming, I've copied the above with some minor tweaks, to the election page here (diff). Feel free to edit, adjust or revert if necessary. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 22:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have thoughts, and I was going to comment at some point.

The list is not well ordered. For example, an urgent task, monitoring the requests page is toward the back and could be combined with "monitoring the project's main talk pages...", which itself could stand to be placed first, as the most urgent, possibly daily duty (if we didn't have a non-coordinator doing so much of the requests work, it would definitely seem a more urgent task if that page were not to fall into disrepair). In general, the tasks should be ordered from most to least urgent, with those tasks that are merely possibilities or are nebulously described (e.g. "drafting of guidelines needed by the project") being held until last.
The monitoring and handling of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Database Report, which is a monthly event that can involve dozens of articles, isn't even mentioned, either here or at the full list.

Dhtwiki (talk) 03:45, 19 November 2024 (UTC) (edited 04:01, 20 November 2024 and 04:21, 20 November 2024 (UTC) (UTC))[reply]

Hi @Dhtwiki:, thanks for your response; I'll re-order the list at the election page. I think any time-sensitive or neglected task can be classed as urgent until it's done, and once it's done it's lost its urgency for a while! Please feel free to edit the election page as you see fit, I don't own it. I'll also add the database report to the full tasks list, though it's not an area I'm involved with. I don't think this list on election pages was ever intended to be a comprehensive or definitive, btw. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 20:47, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've reordered the list as suggested here (permalink), and added the database report here (diff). Cheers, Baffle☿gab 19:56, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

November 2024 drive

November starts a week from Friday, and I have set up a drive page. Of the backlog, June (25 articles), July (73), and August (128) 2023 seem likely. On the requests page, there are 6 from July 2024, with 2 being worked on, 19 from August, 21 from September, and 17, so far, from October. I have included all at the drive page, but we should probably have a more limited bonus-points range. Dhtwiki (talk) 00:02, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed October from the requests range at the drive page, to focus our attention on the oldest. Should we get through all requests from July to September 2024, we can always add it back. Dhtwiki (talk) 03:42, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Copy editing question

I just finished looking at Image and didn't find much to edit in the way of style, punctuation, grammar, or spelling. I did notice a lot of statements that needed to be cited or more properly sourced. Should that be something that I should be as an editor or does that fall under article creation? Thanks. BigChrisKenney (talk) 06:10, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Generally, finding sources is definitely not something you are required to do as a copy editor. Sometimes you will find it convenient to Google a concept in order to clarify what is not clearly expressed in an article you are copy editing. Then, placing the appropriate citation by the text, although not required, is certainly helpful. Dhtwiki (talk) 07:00, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

December nl and blitz

Hi all, I've created the December newsletter here. As it's election time, it should go out early in the month. Dates for the December blitz will need to be chosen before it goes out. The page is very bare atm, I'll complete it in the next week or so. Feel free to add, remove or complete anything in the meantime. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 00:41, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]