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Blurb

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Wincheck, the railroad's second locomotive
Wincheck, the railroad's second locomotive

The Wood River Branch Railroad was a shortline railroad in Rhode Island. Chartered in 1872 and opened on July 1, 1874, the 5.6-mile (9.0 km) line connected Hope Valley, to the New York, Providence and Boston Railroad, the Stonington mainline, at Wood River Junction. Nominally independent, the Stonington Line and its successor, the New Haven, held portions of its stock. The branch carried both passengers and freight, but had only one or two locomotives at any time. Ralph C. Watrous became its president in 1904, and remained involved for the next 33 years. A major flood in November 1927 severed the line and the company considered abandonment, but local citizens and the New Haven agreed to rebuild the line for freight only, using a gasoline locomotive. The New Haven sold the line in 1937 for $301 to Roy Rawlings, owner of a grain mill. He ran the company until 1947 when his mill and other local industries were destroyed by fire. The railroad was abandoned in August 1947, and little remains. (Full article...)

SG review

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Everything in this section is  Done. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:39, 24 April 2023 (UTC) In this version:[reply]

Most citation page numbers are correctly formatted for p and pp, and hyphen vs. endash, but sporadic citations are not. For example

  • Kennedy 2018, pp. 117–118. Has pp for a page range and correctly uses an endash, while ...
  • Heppner 2012, p. 124-125. Has only a p on a page range, and incorrectly uses a hyphen rather than an endash. The script will not repair faulty endashes when there is only a singular p. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In the Roy Rawlings takes over section, there is

  • MOS:SANDWICHing of text between an image and a quote box, and
  • The quote box is placed at the bottom of the previous section, rather than within the section it applies to. How about moving up the image in the End of passenger operations Section, so the quote box can be moved up as well, so it won't protrude into the Rawlings section and create sandwiching there ? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Kennedy book has me uneasy. Most of the article is cited to it, but unless the ISBN is off, it's not available on Amazon.com, and not available in any library per WorldCat. I can't find this book anywhere; what gives and how is one to verify info? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The book was first published in 2018 [1]. I was able to buy it online from the publisher. According to WorldCat [2], a library in Warwick, Rhode Island has a copy. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 03:35, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm doing something wrong on the clickability, as I can see that WorldCat says one library has it, but it won't give me anything when I click ... anyway, not to worry. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:42, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible to work in Rhode Island somewhere in the infobox or the infobox image? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is a parameter for "locale" which I have now utilized. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 13:22, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This image caption leaves the impression he was the sole employee *ever* ... but there are numerous mentions of employees (plural)-- and are we ever told how many employees at its height? (have not started reading yet).

Clarified he was the sole employee at the time of the photograph (1937). The company maxed out at around a dozen employees iirc. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 03:42, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Will continue reading as I find time ... which is scarce of late ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:43, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot find where the acronym USRA is defined. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:54, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

SG continued

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Flow: the Passenger service section is located well below the End of passenger service section, and seems to repeat information. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:56, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is it worth incorporating the text in the main part of the prose? I think when I first made that section I expected there would be a lot more to say. I think the scheduling information could fit in the main part of the body. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 17:27, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That would be my preference, to help avoid repetition. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:41, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Now merged into the main body, and the duplicate sentence about passenger service ending in 1927 removed entirely. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 13:12, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There are eight instances of the word significant, including two in one paragraph; perhaps some alternative adjectives can be used. Are the adjectives necessary at all (depending on what the sources say)? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:17, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Seems you've picked up on a quirk of my writing style; another is saying "thanks to X". I've cut out or reworded several instances of the word. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 13:18, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As a non-railroad layreader, at the end of the first sentence, I wondered what the "national rail network" referred to and expected to find a link. Clicking around, and then reading on, I eventually deciphered that it connected to the NY, Providence and Boston Railroad. Can we make that easier on the lay reader by switching that around? Calling one or two locomotives a "fleet" also seemed odd. Why "remained involved" ... "was" is simpler. It's not clear in the lead who is trying to abandon the railroad; would this rejigging work? As a layreader, it helps me better figure out how Hope Valley got connectd to the national network and what/who was involved in "abandonment". SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:27, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

National rail network refers to the combined network of the U.S. railroad system. It's owned by many different companies, but they connect to one another. There's no railroad that directly connects New York City to San Francisco, for instance, but you can send freight between them via multiple railroads which own connecting lines. By linking to the Stonington at Wood River Junction, shippers in Hope Valley were now connected to the rail network, meaning they could send or receive cargo to/from anywhere on another railroad.
Can remove the word "fleet" if it is confusing. Will make some changes based on your suggestion below, I don't agree with every change but I definitely see the merits of what you're proposing overall. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 17:27, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your choice ... I just don't like to enter a nitpick without also offering a solution :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:42, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Current Idea
The Wood River Branch Railroad was a shortline railroad in Rhode Island, United States. Chartered in 1872 and opened on July 1, 1874, the 5.6-mile (9.0 km) line connected Hope Valley, Rhode Island, to the national rail network at Wood River Junction. Though always nominally independent, the company was closely affiliated with the New York, Providence and Boston Railroad and its successor, the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad (the New Haven), which held significant portions of its stock.

The Wood River Branch carried both passengers and freight for local mills and other industries. It maintained a small fleet of locomotives, only one or two at any given time. Rhode Island citizen Ralph C. Watrous became president of the railroad in 1904, and remained involved in its operation for the next 33 years. He defended the railroad from several attempts at abandonment. A major flood in November 1927 severed the line and suspended all operations. The company considered abandonment, but ultimately local citizens and the New Haven agreed to rebuild the damaged segments and return the line to service for freight only, using a gasoline locomotive.

Abandonment was considered again in 1937, but the New Haven instead agreed to sell the line for $301 to businessman Roy Rawlings, owner of a grain mill that was the line's biggest customer. He ran the company with his family and a small staff until 1947. That year, both his mill and two other Hope Valley industries were destroyed by fire. With not enough business left to justify operating expenses, the railroad ceased operations and was abandoned in its entirety in August 1947. Little of the line remains as of 2018.

The Wood River Branch Railroad was a shortline railroad in Rhode Island, United States chartered in 1872 and opened on July 1, 1874. Hope Valley, Rhode Island was connected to the national rail network via the 5.6-mile (9.0 km) line to Wood River Junction on the New York, Providence and Boston Railroad (the Stonington Line). The Wood River Branch maintained only one or two locomotives at any given time and carried both passengers and freight for local mills and other industries.

Though always nominally independent, the company was closely affiliated with the Stonington Line and its successor, the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad (the New Haven), which held significant portions of its stock. Rhode Island citizen Ralph C. Watrous became president of the railroad in 1904, and was involved in its operation for the next 33 years. He defended the railroad from several attempts by the New Haven to abandon it. When a major flood in November 1927 severed the line and suspended all operations, the company considered abandonment. Local citizens and the New Haven agreed to rebuild the damaged segments and return the line to service for freight only, using a gasoline locomotive.

Abandonment was considered again in 1937, but the New Haven instead agreed to sell the line for $301 to businessman Roy Rawlings, owner of a grain mill that was the line's biggest customer. He ran the company with his family and a small staff until 1947. That year, both his mill and two other Hope Valley industries were destroyed by fire. With not enough business left to justify operating expenses, the railroad ceased operations and was abandoned in its entirety in August 1947. Little of the line remains as of 2018.

I apologize for the length here, but because of having no access to the main source, I can't easily suggest wording changes. In this passage, must we say utilize when we mean the simpler use? And railroad is transportation by land, so as a layreader, I'm confused until I get to the end of the para. Presumably, the first instance of "transportation by land" refers to some other mode (wagon ???) ... and since introduced a "had" as the chronology is backtracking ... would this work ? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:38, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Southern Rhode Island's first railroad was the New York, Providence and Boston Railroad (commonly known as the Stonington Line or simply the Stonington), which opened between Providence and Stonington, Connecticut, in 1837, connecting to New York City via steamboat.[1] The arrival of rail transportation allowed significant growth in textile mills, which used water power along local rivers, such as the Pawcatuck River.[2] These mills had found that transportation over land by (?) wagon was a significant expense in both time and money. In the mid-1860s, Harris Lamphear, owner of several mills on the Wood River (a tributary of the Pawcatuck), found that it cost three times as much to transport goods to Stonington than it did to ship them the rest of the way to New York. He and other local residents realized that a local railroad would solve this problem.[3]
    I specified that the land transportation was by wagon, and changed utilized to used. Let me know if you suggest further changes to this paragraph. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:53, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
     Done SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:29, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Does this work ? (If I had access to the sources, I'd edit directly, asking you to revert any damage, but without access to sources, the process becomes longer here :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:47, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Residents in the Hope Valley area asked the Stonington to build a branch to serve local mills, but the Stonington's management had no interest in building branches for the many towns and cities asking for one.[1] Residents came up with a plan to charter their own new railroad, the Wood River Railroad, in January 1867. The new company ... a tactic successfully employed used elsewhere across the United States. Ultimately, t The Stonington maintained its refusal to build branches, and while the HP&F built several short branches elsewhere, it had no interest in building one in southern Rhode Island.[1]
    I don't like "Residents came up with a plan to charter their own new railroad, the Wood River Railroad, in January 1867." because they didn't just plan to charter it, they did charter the company. I have implemented some of your changes. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:53, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Trainsandotherthings the awkward part of that para is "Their next method was" ... method is an odd word here, and that is what I was seeking to fix. "Residents in the Hope Valley area first asked the Stonington to build a branch ... Their next method was to charter " We're referring to their next approach to getting their mills served by a railroad; method doesn't hit that mark. Maybe ...
    Residents in the Hope Valley area first asked the Stonington to build a branch to serve local mills, but they were among many towns and cities along the Stonington's route that also desired branches, and the Stonington's management had no interest in building any branches regardless.[4] Their next method was to charter their own new railroad, the Wood River Railroad, in January 1867. -->
    Residents in the Hope Valley area first asked the Stonington to build a branch to serve local mills, but they were among many towns and cities along the Stonington's route that also desired branches. The Stonington's management had no interest in building any branches, so the residents chartered their own new railroad, the Wood River Railroad, in January 1867. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:48, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Once the first charter expired, interested residents in the area sought
    Removing that word doesn't really change anything and is more concise, changed. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 13:23, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • would be Locustville if $35,000 were raised ... was raised ?? Never mind, now I get what the sentence is doing :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:57, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • We have Harris Lamphear, but later George T. Lanphear ... is that a typo? Are they related ?
    Just reread the appropriate pages and consulted the book's index... the shared last name is not elaborated on and there's no identified connection between the two, but they are most certainly different people. George did the surveys, was briefly a member of the railroad's leadership, but was soon gone and busy doing surveys for the Narragansett Pier Railroad (another article I need to make improvements to) instead, while Harris remained more involved. It seems likely to me there was some relation, but we can't say that if the source doesn't make that connection. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 04:02, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Got it, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:10, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Trainsandotherthings, Kennedy page 1 has both Harris and George spelled with an n (Lanphear); are you sure the LaMphear for Harris isn't just a typo? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:13, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    In fact I am sure it is a typo. Good catch, fixed. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 00:43, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The western of the two alignments he identified was $10,000 (equivalent to $226,000 in 2021) more expensive -- >> The western alignment would cost $10,000 more (equivalent to $226,000 in 2021),
    Sure, reworded. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 13:23, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • fell to member of the board of directors Amos G. Nichols --> fell to board member Amos G. Nichols ??
    I felt the way I worded this was awkward, but didn't see an alternative. Your suggestion works nicely and I've implemented it. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 13:23, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I recognize that someone asked for all of these converts to 2021 values, but I am unfamiliar with guideline in this area, and reading through all of them is an impediment. Would it be possible to convert only the major numbers, and either leave off every little mention of how much that is in today's $$$, or convert them to notes ??
  • This is a significant for which an alternative might be found ... sorry I cannot access sources ... The line quickly began to show a significant operating profit,
    Removed "significant" per your comment above. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 13:23, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I cannot decipher what this former refers to ... maybe the Stonington line, but labored, just say Stonington ?? to more evenly distribute revenue from passengers and freight connecting with the former at Wood River Junction.

Will stop there for now to get your general feeling as to how much of this is useful, and to not overwhelm with nitpicks ... reading through all of the inflation equivalents is detracting from the story, but unsure how that can be solved and what our guidelines are. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:01, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree re the inflation stuff, I was asked to add it but I'm wondering if we can cut back on how many times they're used. It does distract from the narrative of the article. Harris and George Lanphear are two different people, who I'm pretty sure are related. Will check the Kennedy source to see if she explicitly mentions their relation to one another.
"The former" means the first entity mentioned in that sentence, it can definitely be reworded if it's unclear. Will try to get to everything you mentioned, there's a lot of comments here. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 03:32, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I'll keep going tomorrow ... unless there is a guideline requiring all of those inflation estimates every single time an amount is mentioned, they really seem like overkill, making the story a mess to read. We need to have a general idea of the relative values-- not every single number, every single time (unless a guideline requires it). But I don't want that concern to detract from getting this review closed up, so up to you ... none of these comments are critical ... just want you to get your money's worth out of FAC :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:36, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Eh, it's not passing without a source review anyways, which we don't have yet, so I'm happy to address prose comments even if they're minor. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 03:44, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Are you able to send me some scans from the book? If so, I could pick some random pages to ask for ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:46, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I could email you some pages if needed. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 03:54, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK, let's do this ... if not too much for you ...
  • Heppner is only three pages (123 to 125)
  • Karr is only three pages (151 to 153)
  • And I'll pick a few random pages from Kennedy, say 1, 38 to 39, and 99 to 104
Is that too much to get to me? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:03, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
About to go to bed, but I will email them to you tomorrow morning. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 04:05, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Great ... I'll email you so you can attach on return ... no hurry as I won't be home from church until early afternoon. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:08, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is all I could find: MOS:MONEY: In some cases, it may be appropriate to provide a conversion accounting for inflation or deflation over time. ... When converting among currencies or inflating/deflating, it is rarely appropriate to give the converted amount to more than three significant figures; typically, only two significant figures are justified: the grant in 2001 was 10,000,000 Swedish kronor ($1.4M, €970,000, or £850,000), not ($1,390,570, €971,673 or £848,646) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:45, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
One way to lighten the load on the numbers might be to round the originals? Eg
  • ... which paid the company $26,558.75 --> 26,559
  • ... 8482.72 --> 8483 [3]
By the way, since other numbers use commas (26,558), consistency --> (8,482.72). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:28, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Anywhere you see a missing comma, that was an error on my part, not an intentional decision. Will look at rounding the numbers now. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 17:12, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Got it, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:43, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This sentence is awkward because trains don't pick blueberries or fish.

What is a "flag stop"? Can it be wikilinked? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 05:47, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Our article is titled Request stop. Basically, it's a station where the train only stops if there's someone there actively waiting for the train, or someone on board asks to deboard there. This allows infrequently used stations to be served as needed, while avoiding trains stopping there for no reason if nobody is getting on or off. Link added to the article. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 17:11, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ a b Kennedy 2018, p. viii.

? Trainsandotherthings I'm happy with this section except I'm still hoping you can rejig the lead somewhat along the lines I laid out to make it more clean what is meant by the joining the national rail network. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:51, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Made a few changes to the lead, let me know what you think. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:39, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
All good here, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:48, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

SG part 3

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The article mentions twice that the Gardner Nichols was named after the Sr. Nichols by the Jr. Nichols ... can the second mention of the naming after the father be removed? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:29, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is the information on p. 123 Heppner about the significance of Nichols and Langworthy in the founding of the railroad worth including ? That is, the History now mentions the railroad founding being driven by textiles, but the top of Heppner 123 suggests there may be other industries worthy of mention as well (I don't know what is on the preceding page, bottom of 122, though). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:29, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On page 122, Heppner says "It is not clear what was on the minds of the organizers of the Wood River Railroad". He mentions a possible goal could be getting traffic from mills in the Pawtuxet Valley, but in any event the Pawtuxet Valley Railroad, operated by the Hartford, Providence and Fishkill, and the associated Pontiac Branch Railroad (covered in the Pawtuxet Valley Railroad article), operated by the Stonington, ended up directly serving this region and opened a few years after the Wood River Branch Railroad did. Heppner was writing in 2012, Kennedy's research for her 2018 book gave answers as to why the Wood River Railroad was chartered (they hoped one of its prospective connections would build the line for them). At the bottom of 122 he mentions that a number of mills provided traffic for the Wood River Branch Railroad once it opened. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 13:48, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rejig ??? The first line of the Early operations section may leave a faulty impression of overall profitability

  • The line quickly began to show a significant operating profit, but this was all but eliminated by interest payments on the $57,000 of bonds ...

... is cited to Kennedy, but the distinction between operating profit and overall profit/loss may be lost on the reader, and be obscured in the the later exploration of finances, while Heppner p. 123 says ...

  • "From the beginning, the wood River Branch Railroad was a generally unprofitable operation that never paid a dividend in its seventy-odd years of operation."

Likeise, Karr Mentions the RR was "never particularly profitable". Can this be somehow rejigged to not leave the initial impression from the first line of a mostly profitable venture? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:38, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And Kennedy 38 starts off with a "sea of financial uncertainty, underfunded and deeply in debt"; it does seem like we could give more weight to the financial problems all along. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:23, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Along the same lines, from Kennedy 104, we say:

  • By 1929, the railroad was showing a profit, aided greatly by the efficiency of the A100, which only required a single operator and negated the hours of work required to start a steam locomotive each day.[31]

But this is another example where we need to sort operating costs from the rest of their finances ... the source says only "meeting expenses". SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:58, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think this section is  Done (unless you disagree with my move of Nichols earlier, in which case feel free to revert). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:49, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to modify it a bit. I don't disagree with moving the mention to early on, but a bit of context got lost in the move (understandably as you don't have the source). Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:26, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
All good, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:48, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

SG part 4

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The new company was authorized to raise up to $600,000 (equivalent to $11,600,000 in 2021) to complete a route from Wood River Junction (at the time known as Richmond Switch) on the Stonington Line to Greene on the Hartford, Providence and Fishkill Railroad (HP&F). It was also given the authority to merge with either of its connections after completing construction.

  • Does the new company/charter have a name at this point? Would this be the place to introduce that or its board (eg the involvement of the mill and factory owners?
  • Was it given the "authority to merge with connections" or the authority to merge with the companies owning the connecting stations? Don't know what that sentence means. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:52, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    This was the Wood River Railroad, a distinct entity from the Wood River Branch Railroad which was actually built. By connections, I mean the HP&F or the Stonington. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 03:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Similar here: Their goal was to entice one of the proposed line's connections to intervene and build the line for them,

Here's an example where the introduction of inflation figures kills the narrative:

  • The directors voted that the company's terminal would be Locustville if $35,000 (equivalent to $792,000 in 2021) were raised, but Wyoming instead if either $45,000 (equivalent to $1,018,000 in 2021) were raised or those in favor of Wyoming pledged a total of $10,000 (equivalent to $226,000 in 2021).[5]
    How about instead (making it easier for the reader's eye to skip over the clunky parentheticals):
    The directors voted that the company's terminal would be Locustville if $35,000 were raised, but Wyoming instead if either $45,000 were raised or those in favor of Wyoming pledged a total of $10,000 (values ranging from 2021 equivalents of $226,000 to $1,018,000). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:01, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here's an example where you provide only one inflation adjustment, which perfectly well gets the job done and conveys relative values:

  • The western alignment would cost $10,000 more, but would serve two additional mills in Woodville. To extend the line from Locustville to Wyoming would cost approximately an additional $23,000 (equivalent to $520,000 in 2021).[5] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:02, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do we mean to say here that he purchased it with his own money? I seem to recall (??) seeing that in the sources, and the sentence doesn't hang together without that:

Jargon alert: reading this article, I eventually came to understand what was meant by "abandonment"-- not clear to the non-RR person. The first occurrence is in the lead: He defended the railroad from several attempts at abandonment. ... Can that be more explicit? Eg ... He defended the railroad from several attempts by the railroad's management to abandon the line ... or some such? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:22, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Wikilinked to Abandonment (legal). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:59, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Where in the article do we go from Nichols being the biggest customer to Rawlings ? The lead says:

  • the New Haven instead agreed to sell the line for $301 to businessman Roy Rawlings, owner of a grain mill that was the line's biggest customer.

Is that in the article? I can't find it ... and it has to be sorted from this bit:

  • The railroad's single biggest customer, and the only one with a dedicated siding, was the Nichols and Langworthy Machine Company in Hope Valley.

SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:26, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Nichols and Langworthy burned to the ground in 1909, which I added to the article this morning. Its successors were small operations and the last of them packed up and moved to New Jersey in 1925. Heppner states that Rawlings opened his grain mill in 1917. By the early 30s the Rawlings mill was the line's biggest customer. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 03:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Trainsandotherthings perhaps I'm missing it, but I still haven't discovered where in the article we state and cite what is in the lead (that the Rawlings grain mill was the biggest customer at that point). I understand Nichols and Lang burned, but where do cite in the article the bit from Heppner? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:55, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I've added a few sentences about Rawlings establishing his mill in 1917-1918 and how it became a key customer for the railroad. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 02:27, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Contradiction?

  • A typical schedule in 1903 had four round trips each day, each timed to connect with New Haven Railroad trains to Providence.
  • a sharp reduction from the previous six runs per day.

Somewhere in there, the article probably mentioned extra runs added, but I missed it ... can this be sorted for better clarity? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:38, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The "End of passenger operations" section is quite long; can a new section be started at the paragraph beginning with "Initially, the cost-cutting succeeded in reversing the Wood River Branch's years of unprofitability."?? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:45, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion: Lucy Rawlings Tootell took over the day-to-day management of the railroad, "reputedly as the only woman VP of Operations in the U.S." Too DC-esque, because one of the sources mentions that Lucy is a source of much of the railroad history, so there exists the possibility this claim comes from her. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:52, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done, will look in in the morning, have all day tomorrow to work on this (some stragglers left in previous sections); feel free to revert anything I did that was awful :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:01, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

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  • Heppner (2012), pp. 123–125 accurately checks out; no close paraphrasing or failed verification, although I did raise a few queries above about sorting some minor misimpressions. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:42, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Karr 152 does not explicitly say that the Stonington was purchased by the Haven, although that is understood from other sources; perhaps the final sentence in "Early operation" needs an additional citation? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:53, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article: Residents and businesses in the area were largely opposed to the abandonment.
    • Source: (Kennedy p. 101) There were those who disagreed with abandoning the branch.
      Reading between the lines, as it goes on to describe 75 businessmen, it does seem that most businesses were opposed, but I think we can do a better job here of hewing to the source ... Maybe switch to "Some residents and businesses opposed the abandonment", and avoid further qualifiers? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:35, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article: The ICC could even force the New Haven to operate the line no matter how unprofitable it became, at a time when the New Haven was already having issues with profitability.

Other than those minor nitpicks, the Kennedy pages I spotchecked all check out (pages 1, 38 to 39, and 99 to 104). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:51, 23 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done ?

[edit]

TAOT, sorry for the piecemeal editing as I've been in and out all day, now out again, iPad editing from car hotspot. Best I can tell, everything I have raised has been addressed. If you are able to give a thorough read to this page to be sure nothing is missed, I should be in support position by the time I get home tonight. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:05, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I think the only bit outstanding is that I still don't see where we cite in the body that which we state in the lead about Rawlings grain mill being the line's largest customer ... We have him "heavily dependent" on the railroad, and we have "By 1933, Rawlings' mill and single cars of coal for the Howard C. Woodmansee Coal and Oil Company made up almost all of the line's traffic,", but I can't find where we back up the lead statement. Other than that, all done here ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:05, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 09:13, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And now (finally) I see that was already there, but later in the chronology than Karr has it (Karr has 85% as part of the decision to sell to Rawlings), and since I don't have those pages of Kennedy, adjusted to this. (TAOT, since you have Kennedy, you might be able to resolve to which year the 85% applies.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 09:27, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth, The Day says that over 85% of the railroad's revenue came from the mill in 1947. Kennedy says that in 1945, 90% of the line's traffic was for Rawlings, and most of the rest was coal for Woodmansee Coal and Oil, the remaining few percent being smaller shippers. We do mention that during the depression, Rawlings' mill and Woodmansee were left as the only significant customers. Woodmansee was a consistent customer right up to 1947, but they only really received a single car of coal at a time, while the mill was taking 3 or 4 cars of grain every day. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 15:09, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thx, TAOT; I was just trying to make sure we had the bit in the lead covered, and only after finding that bit in one of the sources I had, and adding it to the article, did I discover it was already included elsewhere in the chronology. (In other words, the bit in the lead was cited, but you had not indicated to me where it was, and I just wasn't seeing it, but wanted to make sure my Support was clean.) But once I did find it, it seemed also important to have Rawlings as the main customer by the time he took over in 1937 ... before 1947 ... pls adjust if you disagree! Just the sort of thing I do when I'm awake in the middle of the night for other reasons :( SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:22, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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