Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Vuelve (album)/archive1

Review (including sources) by SandyGeorgia

Queries

Where did this translation come from? That is not what most Spanish speakers would make of that phrase, which has double (sexual) meanings. Is there a source discussing the translation? Uh, yea, this is supposed to be naughty but the article never seems to address that.

On "Por Arriba, Por Abajo" (transl. "Over the Top, Through the Bottom"),

So, in general, how were translations done here? Did they come from sources, google translate, what method was used? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Lead

In general, the lead is not well written and is a jumbled collection of disjointed thoughts, with no order I can discern. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

How can he "return to the studio" "while on tour" ? Martin returned to the studio and began recording material while on tour. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

The flow here is off:

Following the worldwide success of the song "María" from his previous album, A Medio Vivir (transl. Half Alive) (1995), Martin returned to the studio and began recording material while on tour. Vuelve is a Latin record with Latin dance numbers and pop ballads. "María" caught the attention of FIFA, who asked Martin to write an anthem for the 1998 FIFA World Cup being held in France. Martin subsequently recorded "La Copa de la Vida", composed by Porter, Rosa, and Desmond Child for the World Cup.

First, why is the album titled "Come back"? Following that, introduce that it "is a Latin record ... "? That is never explained. Then, how (chronologically) do all of these events relate? At this point, the reader does not know how "La Copa de Vida" relates to the album. Maria had caught the attention of FIFA, so he returned to the studio during his previous tour to being working on Vuelve ... for FIFA ?? ... which included the song "La Copa de Vida"? I really have no idea what this paragraph is trying to say or why Porter, Rosa and Desmond are re-introduced at the end of this para, when they are mentioned at the beginning. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

What is the construction here ?

Porter, Rosa, and Desmond Child

That is, why is "Desmond" repeated when the first names of Porter and Rosa are not? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

See WP:RECEPTION

This is cliche ... and tells the reader nothing

Critics' reviews of the album were generally positive; they praised its uptempo tracks and its production, though some criticized it for containing too many ballads. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Martin, or the album, or a certain song ??

Martin received several accolades, ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

He's receiving accolades before the album debuts ?? (flow is off) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Credited for? Grammatical, credited with ?

Martin's performance of "La Copa de la Vida" on the Grammy Awards show was credited for boosting the album's sales. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

We go from a song (Copa de Vida) to ... it sold more than ... which at this point presumably applies to the song, but actually applies to the album (we realize by the end of the sentence); again, a flow problem.

Martin's performance of "La Copa de la Vida" on the Grammy Awards show was credited for boosting the album's sales. Certified platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), it sold more than 888,000 copies in the United States, standing as the 10th best-selling Latin album in the country. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

What is the reason for giving an "as of" 2008 (is that all we have)? Now, 13 years later, how many has it sold, or do we not know that? Reader is left wondering, so if we have no better data, some rephrasing might help.

As of 2008, the album had sold over six million copies worldwide. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

ugh ... colloquial, not encyclopedic

Vuelve spawned six singles: SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

redundant ... or if scope beyond Europe and South America is intended, rewording is needed ... (it didn't become a hit in Puerto Rico?) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

became an international hit in both Europe and South America. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

ungrammatical, or lacking punctuation, or something ... at least a comma after tour, but it would still not be a well written sentence.

For promotion, Martin embarked on the worldwide Vuelve tour performing in Asia, Australia, Europe, Mexico, South America, and the United States. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

MOS:NUMNOTES: consistency within articles. "Comparable values should be all spelled out or all in figures, even if one of the numbers would normally be written differently: patients' ages were five, seven, and thirty-two or ages were 5, 7, and 32, but not ages were five, seven, and 32."

but the article has:

Vuelve debuted at number one on the US Billboard Top Latin Albums chart and peaked at number forty on the Billboard 200. ... Vuelve reached number one in Norway, Portugal, and Spain, as well as the top 10 in seven other countries, including Australia and Italy.

So we have number one ... number forty ... number one ... but top 10 in the same context. Is there a WikiProject style guide on this, or should the one, forty and one, be switched to No. 1 and No. 40 to agree with top 10 ? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

By the end of the lead, based on prose alone, I am left confused about the album, and am not compelled to read further, which is one of the main purposes of the WP:LEAD. At this point, it appears that the prose is not at FA standard, and the article should be withdrawn, so I did not continue reading. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:10, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Checking some Spanish-language sources

https://web.archive.org/web/20141112200721/http://www.esmas.com/espectaculos/artistas/381955.html

• The title of the source is not Biografía de Ricky Martin" (those words appear nowhere on that page). It seems to be written by him ?? (the source byline indicates "por: Ricky Martin") so it can't be used (as it is) to cite the number of records sold. If it is written by him, it might be useful to cite something like his birthdate, but not number of records sold-- that needs independent sourcing.
• The correct formatting of that citation would be: |title= Ricky Martin |work= Espectaculos biografias (pardon, no accent marks from the computer I am typing on but you would presumably add them |publisher=Esmas.com
• It is not clear to me why Ricky Martin would write his own bio for Televisa, but there it is "por Ricky Martin" as a byline.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200612000525/http://wvw.nacion.com/viva/1997/diciembre/07/espec1.html

• The citation as formatted links to the Argentine newspaper, but the digital version used as the source is "© 1997. LA NACION S.A. ... Si usted necesita mayor información o brindar recomendaciones, escriba a webmaster@nacion.co.cr" which is a Costa Rican domain (????) The article is clearly not from the high quality (required for FAs) Argentine La Nacion, rather a much less well known Costa Rican newspaper: https://www.nacion.com/puro-deporte/ I can't get through all the pop-ups to determine if this is a high quality reliable source, so will leave it to the nominators to establish why this is a reliable source. (The writing has an intense tabloid feel.) It seems to be La Nación (San José), but I can't get through the pop-ups.
• It is used to cite: "On December 7, 1997, Martin confirmed he was completing his next project and that the album would be released in February of the following year."
• The source says: "Si todo sale como está planeado, el disco de Martin estará será (sic) lanzado al mercado en febrero del próximo año." (If everything goes as planned, Martin's record would be will be (sic) released to market in February of (the) next year.) And December 7 is the date of the citation.
• So, "confirmed" is a bit of a stretch for what Martin actually said (if everything goes as planned), and why does any reader care about the precise date on which he made this statement?

The next Spanish-language source is another La Nacion that is Costa Rican, not the high quality Argentine La Nacion, so I skipped it, and looked for a higher quality source.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200609033408/https://www.lanacion.com.ar/espectaculos/como-ser-un-idolo-y-no-morir-en-el-intento-nid88284/

• This is the Argentine (high quality) La Nación.
• It is cited as: Bonacchi, Verónica (February 18, 1998). "Cómo ser un ídolo y no morir en el intento". La Nación (in Spanish). Archived from the original on June 9, 2020. Retrieved June 9, 2020.
  • It should be cited with a trans-title, with the link to the paper, and with a location specified as there are so many newspapers with the same name: Bonacchi, Verónica (February 18, 1998). "Cómo ser un ídolo y no morir en el intento" [How to be an idol and not die trying]. La Nación (in Spanish). Argentina. Archived from the original on June 9, 2020. Retrieved June 9, 2020.
• It is used to cite "Renato Russo had written it months before he died of AIDS." The source says "Los gritos cesan. Ricky Martin se pone serio, en el centro del escenario. "Esta canción es catártica -sugiere en tono melancólico-. Renato Russo la escribió unos pocos meses antes de morir de SIDA." (The screaming stops. Ricky Martin becomes serious, in the middle of the set. "This song is cathartic- he continues in a melancholic tone. "Renato Russo wrote it a few months before he died of AIDS". So, Wikipedia states this as a fact, rather than attributing the fact to Martin (according to Martin, or Martin said ... ), and the paraphrasing is a wee bit close, perhaps could be rephrased.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200603170433/https://www.eltiempo.com/archivo/documento/MAM-851318

• This is the Colombian El Tiempo, but again, because there are so many (El Tiempo), a location should be specified in the citation.
• It is cited as: "Ricky Martin, Mucho Más Que El Artista del Momento". El Tiempo (in Spanish). November 6, 1998. Archived from the original on June 3, 2020. Retrieved June 9, 2020.
  • It should be cited as: "Ricky Martin, Mucho Más Que El Artista del Momento" [Ricky Martin, Much More Than The Artist of the Moment]. El Tiempo (in Spanish). Colombia. November 6, 1998. Archived from the original on June 3, 2020. Retrieved June 9, 2020.
• It is used to source: Martin recorded two cover songs in Spanish for the album: "Marcia Baila" (transl. Marcía Dances) and "Gracias por Pensar en Mi" (transl. "Thank You for Thinking of Me"). Les Rita Mitsouko originally performed "Marcia Baila", and was a success in France in the 1980s. ... and ... The narrator for "Gracias por Pensar en Mi (NOTE MISSING CLOSE QUOTE) is a person close to dying.
  • PROSE issue, ungrammatical, and don't make the reader click out to figure out what "Les Rita Mitsouko" is: The French pop rock group Les Rita Mitsouko originally performed "Marcia Baila", and was a success in France in the 1980s. ... what does "was a success" refer back to, the group or the song, the sentence is not grammatical.
  • The source says: Marcia Baila es un cover en versión tropical de una canción que fue suceso en los años 80 en Francia. (Marcia Baila is a cover in a tropical version of a song that was a success in the 80s en France.) Best I can tell, the source never mentions Les Rita Mitsouka, nor that they originally performed the song. fails verification.
  • The source say: *Gracias por pensar en mi fue composición de Martin y la escribió pensando en una persona que estaba cercana a la muerte. ("Gracias por Pensar en Mi" was Martin's composition and he wrote it thinking of a person who was dying.) fails verification

Suggest withdrawal

I stopped there (note: that little bit took three hours, and barely scratched the surface); the article has sourcing problems, and the prose needs a lot of work, and the nomination should be withdrawn. I am left wondering whether editors proficient in Spanish have worked on it. I suggest that a thorough source check be done before this article returns to FAC, that someone familiar with Spanish checks every source (including the English ones), and that the article prose and organization needs considerable work before FAC is re-approached. The appearance is that too many different editors have worked on the article, but no one has truly shepherded it to FA-readiness. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:43, 29 November 2021 (UTC)