Wikipedia talk:Centralized discussion/Macedonia/other articles/Archive 1

Discussion of Proposal B

Proposal B is far too restrictive in naming Macedonia. There are very few contexts in which there is any real ambiguity (almost exclusively in articles about Greece and the ancient world), but Proposal B pretends that ambiguity is much more common. It isn't. (Taivo (talk) 22:53, 21 June 2009 (UTC))

This revert by Shadowmorph clearly illustrates that his perspective on this proposal is excessively restrictive. He asked Future Perfect what other situations that disambiguation is not necessary here, but he is not willing to add clear situations to his very restrictive list. In other words, this proposal is nothing more than a "Republic of Macedonia nearly everywhere" proposal despite clear evidence that "Macedonia" is the most common English name for the country. (Taivo (talk) 00:35, 22 June 2009 (UTC))

Sorry I didn't say not add them. You can add them in a new proposal as the referees said is the appropriate way for adding proposals to the pages. Add it and I might even support it. However this proposal might be supported as is since it is quite sufficient in its own. Also I never said that I would concur to removing wording either.Shadowmorph ^{^"^} 08:24, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I said "please share them" to future Perfect in his user talk page asking for his opinion. That doesn't have to be a calling to introduce them in this proposal without discussion. I now changed my mind, please include all broadening of the list in a new proposal if you want. Shadowmorph ^{^"^} 08:31, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I did add wording to cover his suggestions in my talk page[1] about the situations I forgot (the ones where the context is the country itself) so don't make it appear as if I am not cooperating.Shadowmorph ^{^"^} 08:36, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Discussion of Proposal A

Disambiguate as necessary is the default throughout WP. The other proposals should clearly indicate what makes them better than A. Jd2718 (talk) 22:57, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Other means of disambiguation

There are times when disambiguation is necessary, but too much weight has been placed on making adjustments to the name of the country and not to other possibilities. Linguasphere, a linguistic enumeration of world languages, uses a simple system--Macedonia versus Greek Macedonia. No one is talking about that as a possible disambiguation method. It seems to me that "Macedonia", "ancient Macedonia", and "Greek Macedonia" is the most efficient means in general of disambiguating these three entities. Since most references are going to be to the country, it is the simple one. Just a thought. (Taivo (talk) 23:24, 21 June 2009 (UTC))

OK, I saw it towards the bottom of Proposal A. So much verbage has been expended trying to keep Macedonia from being called Macedonia that this other disambiguation option is relegated to almost a footnote. What's wrong with "Macedonia" and "Greek Macedonia"? I'm sure the Greek nationalists will love to comment on that ;) (Taivo (talk) 23:29, 21 June 2009 (UTC))

proposal B.1

Please allow the proposal B to be as is, any revision can be at B.1

For one thing about the additions I undid I don't think that "Greek Macedonia" is always a good disambiguation as it is semiologically similar to a "(now) Greek (part of the) Macedonia (region)" while the name of the place is Macedonia by itself (not only as a part of the region). Like in Macedonia, Greece Shadowmorph ^{^"^} 00:33, 22 June 2009 (UTC)