Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Peer review/Walls of Dubrovnik

Walls of Dubrovnik

New article (B-class) - just interested in opinions of more experienced editors on how the quality and standard of the article can be improved. --Kebeta (talk) 21:50, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Laurinavicius

As you and I have already discussed, Kebeta, there are numerous grammatical errors, odd word phrasings, re-directs, capitalization, year links, picture locations, etc. that needed fixing. That's probably the biggest thing, in my opinion, that needs correction. Also, most of the sections and sub-sections are quite small, so these certainly should be either expanded or merged together, though I personally prefer. Another thing is that the measurements and distances given are, generally, in the metric system, and, as such, should be converted into English units (the United States Customary System) for American readers. Lastly, in my opinion, all quotes, statistics, and facts likely to be challenged should be cited. I've noted that in several cases there are stats that are unreferenced, which should be. I'll get to work on improving these point, with particular emphasis on the first one, as soon as possible (which means tomorrow afternoon). But other than these four things, the article is, for the most part, very good. Great work with it! My regards, Laurinavicius (talk) 01:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, as you said, we have already discussed. Laurinavicius will help with prose and grammatical errors.

• Sub-sections which are quite small, should be merged together until somebody can expand them. I expended some small sub-sections. Some small sub-sections about the gates in walls should't be merged, because gates and forts are main parts of the city walls.  Done
• Measurements are mainly in metric system. Some of them also have English units, those which have not, will be added.  Done
• Please, tell me which stats are unreferenced, so I can referenced them. --Kebeta (talk) 19:55, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Here is the list of information that should be cited but isn't, starting from the beginning of the article and continuing downard:  Done

• Walls were reinforced by 3 circular and 14 quadrangular towers, five bastions (bulwarks), two angular fortifications and a large St. John Fortress.
• The city first spread towards the uninhabited eastern part of the islet. That is why the current name for the southeast part of the city, next to the St. John Fortress is called Pustijerna. The name comes from the Latin statement "post terra", which means outside the town. In the 9th and 10th century, the defensive wall enclosed the eastern portion of the city.
• The present shape of the walls was defined in the 14th century after the city was finally liberated from Venetian rule, but the peak of its construction falls from the beginning of the 15th century till the second half of the 16th century.
• largest stimulus for continued development and emergency repairs and works of the Dubrovnik fortresses came with the unexpected danger of attack by Turkish military forces, after they took over Constantinople in 1453.
• The irregular parallelogram, which surrounds Dubrovnik, has four strong fortresses at its most significant points. To the north is the strong circular Minčeta Tower, to the east side of the city port is the Revelin Fortress, and the large and complex of St. John Fortress is located on the southeast side of the city. The western entrance to the city is protected by the strong and nicely shaped Fort Bokar.
• The main wall on the landside is 4 to 6 meters thick, and at certain locations, the walls reach up to 25 meters in height.
• The town had four city gates: two that led to the harbor and two (with draw bridges) that led to the mainland.
• Communication with the outside world on the landside was maintained with the city through two main well-protected city gates, one placed on the western side of the city and the other placed on the eastern side.
• At the entrance gate to the Old Town, on the western side of the land walls there is a stone bridge within two Gothic arches, designed by Paskoje Miličević (1471).
• Outer Gate of Ploča is built by Miho Hranjac in 1628, while wooden drawbridge and twin-spanned stone bridge (15th C) by Paskoje Miličević are similar to those at Pile Gate.
• The main wall on the sea side is 1,5 to 5 meters thick.
• In the city port area, one of the most significant areas of the maritime trade city, there were two entrances: Gate of Ponte (port) and the Fishmarket Gate. The city port was protected from strong waves and surprise invasion by the Kase jetty.
• Constructed in 1476, the Gate of Ponte is situated westwards from the Large Arsenal.
• The Fishmarket Gate, built in 1381, stands eastward from the Great Arsenal. The three arches of the 15th century Small Arsenal, where small boats were repaired, are situated a bit further.
• As the fall of Constantinople in 1453 was a clear sign to the cautious citizen of Dubrovnik to quickly take ample defensive measures, the first and one of the most important tasks was to strengthen its hey points. The fall of Bosnia, which followed soon in 1463, only hastened the works. The Republic invited a famous architect, Michelozzo di Bartolomeo of Florence.
• Minčeta Tower is the most prominent point in the defense system toward the land. Tower's name derives from the name of the Menčetić family, who owned the ground the tower was built upon.
• In the middle of the 15th century, around the earlier quadrilateral fort, Michelozzo built a new round tower adapted to the new technique of warfare and joined it to the new system of low scarp walls. The walls of the new tower were full 6 meters thick and had a series of protected gun ports. The famous architect and sculptor Giorgio da Sebenico from Zadar, continued the work on the Minčeta. He designed and built the high narrow round tower, while the battlements are a later addition. The tower was completed in 1464, and is the symbol of the unconquerable city of Dubrovnik.
• The Fort Bokar, often called Zvjezdan, is among the most beautiful instances of harmonious and functional fortification architecture. It was built by Michelozzo, while the city walls were reconstructed (from 1461 to 1463). This tower was conceived as the key point in the defense of the Pile Gate, the western fortified entrance of the city. Together with Minčeta this tower is the second key point in the defense of the western land approach to the city.
• The St. John Fortress, often called Mulo Tower, is a complex monumental building on the southeastern side of the old city port, controlling and protecting its entrance. The first fort was built in mid 14th century, but it was modified on several occasions in the course of the 15th and 16th centuries, which can be seen in the triptych made by the painter Nikola Božidarević in the Dominican monastery.
• In the period of unmistakable Turkish danger and the fall of Bosnia under Turkish rule, the Revelin Fortress was built to the east of the city in 1462, a detached fortress providing additional protection to the land approach to the eastern Ploče Gate.
• Danger of Venetian assault suddenly increased in the times of the First Holy League, and it was necessary to strengthen this vulnerable point of the city fortifications. The Senate hired Antonio Ferramolino, an experienced builder of fortresses in the service of the Spanish admiral Doria, a trusted friend of the Republic. In 1538 the Senate approved his drawings of the new, much stronger Revelin.
• The new Revelin became the strongest city fortress, safeguarding the eastern land approach to the city. It is an irregular quadrilateral, with one of its sides descending towards the sea, and protected by a deep ditch on the other side. One bridge crossing the protective ditch connects it to the Ploče Gate, and another connects it to the eastern suburb. The construction work was executed perfectly so that the devastating earthquake of 1667 did not damage Revelin.
• The fortress has a quadrilateral court with mighty arches. As the height is uneven, it has 3 terraces with powerful parapets, the broadest looking south towards the sea. Lovrijenac was defended with 10 large cannons, the largest and most famous being “Lizard”. The walls exposed to enemy fire are almost 12 meters thick, but the large wall surface facing the city does not exceed 60 centimeters.
• According to old scripts it was built in only three months.
• Despite its small size, the Republic of Dubrovnik was well protected by massive city walls and used Pelješac to build another line of defense.
• The Fortress is placed at Ponta Oštro, at the very end of Prevlaka peninsula. It was built in the mid 19th century (1856-1862), as a part of the fortification system of Bay of Kotor at the time of Austro-Hungarian Empire.
• With the weakening of Byzantium, Venice began to see Ragusa as a rival who needed to be brought under her control, but the attempt to conquer the city in 948 failed.
• Ragusa was forced to pay a tribute and became a source of supplies for Venice, thus saved itself from being sacked like Zadar, in Siege of Zara.
• Around the year 1800, the Republic had a highly organized network of consulates and consular offices in more than eighty cities and ports around the world. In 1806, the Republic surrendered to forces of the Empire of France to end a months-long siege by the Russian and Montenegrian fleet (during which 3,000 cannonballs fell on the city). The French lifted the siege and saved Ragusa
• Dubrovnik was besieged and attacked by Yugoslav People's Army (JNA) forces in late 1991, with the major fighting ending in early 1992 and the Croatian counterattack finally lifting the siege and liberating the area in mid-1992.
• Institute for the Protection of Cultural Monuments, in conjunction with UNESCO, found that of the 824 buildings in the Old Town, 563 (or 68.33 %) had been hit by projectiles in 1991 and 1992. Nine buildings were completely destroyed by fire. In 1993, the Institute for the Rehabilitation of Dubrovnik and UNESCO estimated the total cost for restoring public and private buildings; religious buildings; streets, squares, and fountains; and ramparts, gates, and bridges at US$9,657,578.

My regards, Laurinavicius (talk) 01:35, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I didn't realize that the reference should be after every single sentence. I meant that if two sentences are from the same source, that reference should go after second sentence, not after both of them? --Kebeta (talk) 11:05, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

It's not that references should be after every single sentence, but most sentences have some sort of quote, statistic, or fact likely to be challenged, and, as such, needs a citation. My regards, Laurinavicius (talk) 22:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Start fixing things. --Kebeta (talk) 20:18, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Laurinavicius analisis/opinion.  Done --Kebeta (talk) 22:22, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

YellowMonkey

If you are thinking of GA and higher, people will question you about your sources and why some random or amateur websites like Croatia gay is reliable. Also there will be questions about whether you checked serious history textbooks, as information maybe forthcoming from accounts of the use of the walls in battle, rather than just tourism. Books also need page numbers YellowMonkey (bananabucket) 03:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking of GA class.

• I agree, some sources are not of best quality. But, most of the good sources which I found are barely touching the subject, enough to verify the truth of article, but not enough to be cited. I just didn't found a book which is about the Walls of Dubrovnik, only books about history. Some books that I found are in Croatian.
• Walls of Dubrovnik didn't have much of the classical medieval battles, that is why the are almost intact. --Kebeta (talk) 20:08, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I fixed sources the best I could. I hope it is good enough for GA class. Thanks for advice. --Kebeta (talk) 20:52, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I can fetch you someone who can translate Croatian(just call me in case of need and list the material). If you want to write about the walls of Dubrovnik you must use Croatian sources. History and archaeology get published in the native languages in Europe and that makes it difficult. Greetings Wandalstouring (talk) 20:45, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Wandalstouring, but I can translate Croatian to English. Anyway, it passed as a GA class. Regards, Kebeta (talk) 15:54, 13 December 2009 (UTC)