Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/United States Zouave Cadets

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Sturmvogel 66 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 02:20, 17 July 2019 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

United States Zouave Cadets

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Nominator(s): Chetsford (talk)

I created this article last December, and it became the 49th most-viewed DYK of all time later that month, due mostly to Yoninah's decision to run the attractive cover art to the 1860 printing of the "Zouave Cadets Quickstep" on the main page, which I think inspired clicks. (I waited to submit this partly because I wanted to create an audio file for the snappy "Zouave Cadets Quickstep" first.) The Zouave Cadets were a platoon-sized infantry unit that never saw combat and existed for less than five years; this short history is reflected in the short length of the article. However, the U.S. Zouave Cadets had an outsized influence, being the direct inspiration behind the strange and fanciful formation of more than 50 zouave units in the armed forces of the USA and CSA in the middle 19th century. They also briefly served as the ceremonial life guard to William Henry Bissell, the crippled and housebound Governor of Illinois. Chetsford (talk) 06:55, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from AustralianRupert

Support: G'day, Chetsford, nice work. I have the following comments/observations: AustralianRupert (talk) 12:31, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

These units, often drawn from Society --> lower case "society"?
is there an OCLC number that is applicable to the Manning source? These can usually be found on worldcat.org
per MOS:ELLAYOUT the Commons box should be at the top of the last section in the article
veteran of Crimea: perhaps link Crimean War here
"DeVilliers" or "De Villiers"?
"Charles De Villiers" --> drop his first name on subsequent mention per MOS:SURNAME
link company
with the 1861 outbreak of the American Civil War with most: "with...with" (is there a way to avoid repeating this word?)
American Civil War is overlinked
suggest adding the article to Category: Military units and formations established in 1856 and Category: Military units and formations disestablished in 1861
ext links all work (no action required)
there are no dab links (no action required)

Thanks very much, AustralianRupert. These should all now be fixed, but let me know if I missed anything. Chetsford (talk) 23:11, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, your changes look good. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 09:49, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review from Factotem

From Conciliation to Conquest: The Sack of Athens and the Court-Martial of Colonel John B. Turchin is cited twice, the first time (ref #2) with author George Bradley, the second (ref #18) with author Richard L. Dahlen. The book appears to have been co-authored by both, according to Worldcat;
Seymour's Chicago: Its History and its Builders was originally published in 1912 according to this internet archive copy, though Google reports 1910 in the search results for the book title. Either way, would suggest adding the |orig-year= parameter to the ref;
Uniforms of the Civil War appears to have been written by Francis A. Lord, not Arthur M. Wise (who is credited as the illustrator), and published by Dover Publications, not Courier, according to Worldcat;
Chicago by the Book: 101 Publications That Shaped the City and Its Image is a collection of works by different authors, and you should probably specify this in the ref using the parameters |chapter=Zouave Cadets Quickstep Dedicated to the U.S. Zouave Cadets Governors Guard of Illinois, |last=Hinderliter and |first=Alison;
Can you clarify the details and use of Hiller's Under Gov. Wm. H. Bissell, 1857-1860? You've provided a publication date of "Autumn 1864" but the JSTOR article linked to gives "Autumn 1964 (I'm guessing typo here). Also, the article is six pages long - can you provide the specific page being cited?
The second para in the section "Later history" is sourced to the 1861 New York Times article The War Spirit in the West (ref #19). I followed the link provided, but can find nothing in it to support any of the statements made in the paragraph;
Dretske's Col. Elmer Ellsworth (1837-1861) appears to have a publication date of 2011 that can be added to the ref.
I wonder if Chicago Portraits: New Edition by June Skinner Sawyers can add to the article? There are only two pages that appear to be relevant, though, relating to Ellsworth, only one of which I can preview. It does contradict the article in reporting that Ellsworth trained the Zouaves for four hours every day except Sunday, rather than three evenings per week.

That's all from me. Factotem (talk) 11:23, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Factotem - thanks much, this is all updated / corrected now. Please let me know if I missed anything. Also, I added a note clarifying that two different sources reported different information on the drill schedule and sourced Sawyers to expand particulars of the Zouave uniform. Chetsford (talk) 16:29, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

All good. See no reason not to support on sourcing. Factotem (talk) 16:41, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by PM

This article is in good shape, but I have a few queries/comments:

in general, I would have liked to read what happened to the zouave get-up and drill in combat conditions during the Civil War, at least in the Legacy section. I would have thought that the uniforms and different drill would have been a handicap in combat, esp as a target and when trying to coordinate with other non-zouave troops
link infantry in the lead
suggest "The United States Zouave Cadets were formed in 1859 from the National Guard Cadets of Chicago that had been established three years earlier."
the lead says "the United States Zouave Cadets held the ceremonial designation of Governor's Guard of Illinois", but this isn't what the body says, it just says he died, they fired volleys, and they were his life guard. Suggest stating the formal name of the role if that is right
for "demobilized" link mobilization
link militia
"zouave outfit" is a bit colloquial "zouave unit"?
"excellence called by one observer"→"excellence described by one observer"
state what date Ellsworth was killed, as his being the first United States officer to be killed is pretty major. Also, should it be Union rather than United States?
"By the time of the American Civil War" implies up to its outbreak, and at that point, there were no Union or Confederate forces. Reword?

That's all I have. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:15, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks, Peacemaker67. These are all updated now. Please let me know if I missed anything. Chetsford (talk) 19:08, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It wouldn't be a bad idea to include the fact that Ellsworth had worked for Lincoln, which goes towards explaining why his body lay in state at the White House. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:19, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Chetsford (talk) 00:39, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Last thing., I think Ellsworth should be mentioned in the lead, as he was the real force behind the zouave idea. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:42, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Peacemaker67. Updated. Chetsford (talk) 03:12, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. Supporting. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:16, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

United_States_Zouave_Cadets_Quick_Step.ogg should include an explicit tag for the composition

File:Private,_Chicago_Zouaves,_Illinois_MIlitia,_from_the_Military_Series_(N224)_issued_by_Kinney_Tobacco_Company_to_promote_Sweet_Caporal_Cigarettes_MET_DPB872457.jpg and File:Officer,_Chicago_Zouaves,_Illinois_Militia,_from_the_Military_Series_(N224)_issued_by_Kinney_Tobacco_Company_to_promote_Sweet_Caporal_Cigarettes_MET_DPB872458.jpg should include explicit tags for the original cards. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:57, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria, thanks very much. These are updated now. Chetsford (talk) 16:33, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments & support by Pendright

Thanks for an interesting bit of history. I enjoyed reading it; the follwing items caught my eye. Pendright (talk) 01:17, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lead:

... the Illinois militia that has been credited as the force behind the surge in popularity of zouave infantry in the United States and Confederate States in the mid-19th century.

Consider linking "militia".

Backgrokund

In the years following the War of 1812, many northern states de-funded and demobilized their militias.

"Defunded" is one word.

Well-drilled and commanded units could petition for recognition by their state government whereupon their officers would be issued commissions by the Governor and their troops permitted access to the state's armories and munitions stores, all while maintaining their otherwise independent character.

Consider a comma after government.
Did a petition require approval before commissions were granted?

Nevertheless, volunteer militia companies of this period – despite forming the nucleus around which a state could build and expand its military forces in an emergency – have been characterized, in the words of historian Phil Reyburn, as "more fraternal than martial".

Consider this: Nevertheless, such volunteer militia companies of this period – despite forming a nucleus around which a state could build and expand its military forces in an emergency – were characterized by Phil Reyburn, an historian, as "more fraternal than martial".

Within three years, however, its size had dwindled to just 15 men.

From which size did it dwindle.

Elmer Ellsworth:

Ellsworth himself had been introduced to zouave military customs by his fencing instructor Charles A. De Villiers, a French physician, immigrant, and veteran of a zouave unit during the Crimean War.

Consider this: Ellsworth, himself, had been introduced to zouave military customs by his fencing instructor, Charles A. De Villiers, a French physician, immigrant, and veteran of a zouave unit during the Crimean War.

... the United States Zouave Cadets established a reputation for parade ground excellence described by one observer as "unsurpassed this side of West Point".

Consider a comma after excellence, or a comma and which was?

n March 1860 the invalid and partially paralyzed Governor of Illinois, William Henry Bissell, succumbed to pneumonia.

Consider a comma after 1860.

1860 tour:

In July of 1860, the unit undertook a tour of the United States, appearing in parades and performing exhibition drills in Adrian, Michigan; Detroit, Michigan; Cleveland, Ohio; Buffalo, New York, Rochester, New York; Utica, New York; Troy, New York; Albany, New York; New York, New York; and Boston, Massachusetts. A crowd of tens of thousands turned-out to watch the unit's parade through the streets of New York City.

Is a tour of the United Sttes acturate, when it did not seem to go west of the Mississippi?

Later history:

The United States Zouave Cadets effectively ceased to exist with the 1861 outbreak of the American Civil War, most of its personnel scattering to other unit.

Consider placing the year 1861 after the American Civil War.

Ellsworth's national reputation earned at the head of the Chicago Zouaves ...

Consider replacing at with "as".

Legacy:

... not dreaming of the great Rebellion which was soon to follow".

The Great Rebellion is upper case and it can refer to many rebellions. Great Rebellion
According to the MOS: Quotations must be verifiably attributed, and the wording of the quoted text should be faithfully reproduced. This is referred to as the principle of minimal change. Where there is good reason to change the wording, enclose changes within square brackets (for example replacing pronouns with nouns that aren't identified in the quote: "Ocyrhoe told [her father] his fate" instead of "Ocyrhoe told him his fate"). If there is a significant error in the original statement, use [sic] or the template [sic] (produces a note like [sic] ) to show that the error was not made by Wikipedia. However, trivial spelling and typographic errors should simply be corrected without comment (for example, correct basicly to basically and harasssment to harassment), unless the slip is contextually important.

However, units inspired by the Chicago Zouaves later found the zouave uniform impractical in combat conditions with the colorful chasseur trousers making easy targets of their wearers. During the American Civil War, zouave units soon switched to more conventional uniforms, though, in the postbellum era zouave-style uniforms gradually reappeared among some militia.

Postbellum is a word probably unfamiliar to most of us, Consider substitute wording.

General:

Consider adjusting the following headings:

From Under Elmer Ellsworth to "Under Command of Elmer Ellsworth".
From 1860 tour to to "The 1860 tour".
Consider placing Legacy aftet Unit march.

Finished: Pendright (talk) 01:19, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pendright - thanks for this review. I've made these updates, however, let me know if you notice anything missing. Chetsford (talk) 22:19, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

All comments addressed - supporting. Pendright (talk) 20:42, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.