Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Leslie Andrew

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by AustralianRupert (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 02:30, 21 April 2018 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Leslie Andrew

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Nominator(s): Zawed (talk)

This article, Leslie Andrew, is the third of the New Zealand VC recipients of the First World War to be brought here for an A-Class review. In contrast to the other WWI recipients, Andrew saw action during the Second World War and has attracted some criticism for his handling of his command during the Battle of Crete. The article was the subject of a GA review back in 2013 and in recent weeks, I have done some expansion work, primarily around his WWII service. I look forward to the feedback of reviewers. Zawed (talk) 02:45, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

~~Comments~~ This article is in very good shape, and provides a well-rounded view of its subject. I have only the following comments:

I'd suggest noting how old Andrew was in October 1915

Done. Zawed (talk) 09:08, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"were required to register for service with the NZEF" - this is a bit unclear, at least to Australian eyes. Were members of the Territorial Force liable for compulsory call up with the NZEF and deployment overseas?

Have rephrased a bit - he had to be 20 or over to qualify for service aboard. Zawed (talk) 09:08, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"but remained in England until the end of the war" - do we know what he was doing? Given how heavy the fighting and casualties were on the Western Front in 1918, it seems surprising he wasn't sent there

He was at Sling Camp as an instructor, have added. Zawed (talk) 05:39, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Do we know when Andrew returned to NZ after World War I? The article implies that he stayed in the UK until the mid-1920s.

Added timeframe for his return to England. Zawed (talk) 05:39, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"The battalion embarked for England in May 1940" - at the risk of asking for too much detail, I think that it actually embarked for the Middle East and was diverted to the UK en-route (discussed in Second Australian Imperial Force in the United Kingdom#Arrival in the UK)

Have rephrased a bit. Zawed (talk) 09:08, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The battalion would have also done more than garrison duties in the UK - as I understand it, the NZEF formations were part of the strategic reserve which would have been rushed to the scene of any German landings during the Battle of Britain period, and trained pretty hard for this duty (this also helped get them ready for combat in the Middle East)

Have added a little information. Unfortunately the battion history is really light on detail of its service in the UK. Zawed (talk) 09:08, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"He was later invited to run for Parliament but declined" - can you say who invited him? (presumably one of the parties) Nick-D (talk) 03:29, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The source I got that tidbit from doesn't say. There is another book I can check that may say but I don't personally have a copy and it will be a few days before I can check one. Zawed (talk) 09:08, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

OK so I wasn't able to get the book to check this. I have asked another editor active in WPNZ who often works on political articles to see if they may be to assist on this. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 10:27, 19 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nick-D, I have heard back from the editor, it doesn't look like the answer is available from the information he has available. Zawed (talk) 08:19, 20 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

OK, fair enough. Nick-D (talk) 08:58, 20 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support My comments are now addressed. Nick-D (talk) 08:58, 20 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support ~~Comments Placeholder~~ by Ian -- I reviewed at GAN a few years ago and will be interested to see progress since then so will try and stop by here again. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:47, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, copyedited per my usual practice, pls Let me know any concerns; outstanding points:
- Early life
  - I'd generally expect to see the subject's middle name here -- can it be cited to Harper & Richardson?
    - Indeed it can, have added. Zawed (talk) 10:27, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - Can we safely link "cadet program" to New Zealand Cadet Corps?
    - Have linked. Zawed (talk) 10:27, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- First World War
  - "At the time, the VC, instituted in 1856, was the highest gallantry award that could be bestowed on a soldier of the British Empire." -- reads oddly to me; isn't it still the highest award, in which case we can safely delete "At the time"?
    - This has been raised in a GA review that is in progress on another article I have worked on. My reasoning was that NZers now have the Victoria Cross for New Zealand; Australia and Canada also have their own VCs. For context, perhaps a note could be added to this effect? Zawed (talk) 10:27, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      - Indeed, and the way I couched the concern could have been better. The phrasing you use ("was the highest gallantry award that could be bestowed") indicates past tense, hence "at the time" seems redundant. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:01, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
        Understood, have deleted the "At the time". Cheers, Zawed (talk) 01:03, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Legacy
  - "It is also recognised that the lethargic conduct of his brigade commander, James Hargest, in the early stages of the fighting on the island was a significant factor." -- I think this statement needs inline attribution; who exactly recognises it?
    - I have slightly rephrased this and added more refs to support this sentence. Zawed (talk) 10:27, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      - Okay, additional citations to support the statement is another way of allaying my concerns -- fair enough. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:01, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Structure and level of detail seem appropriate, though not sure it's vital to have the stolen VC episode as a separate section.

I have carried this over from other NZ VC articles so would prefer to maintain it. Zawed (talk) 10:27, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's a marginal concern for more -- no prob. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:01, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take Nikki's image review as read.
Sources all look prima facie reliable.

Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:34, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Ian Rose: Thanks for looking at this and no issues with your copyedits. I think I have addressed your concerns but would appreciate further comment on the VC being the highest award. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 10:27, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, one last thing in Early life that I forgot to mention first up: like middle name, I generally expect to see mother's name (incl. maiden name) in a comprehensive bio -- is it known? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:02, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, given names at least have been added. Don't have a maiden name unfortunately. Zawed (talk) 10:34, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No prob, you can only report what the sources supply -- happy to support, well done. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:57, 19 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:Maj_L_Andrew.jpg: source site states copyright is "unknown"

Have updated with author information and PD tag. This was one of my earlier uploads and I wasn't aware of some of the subtleties of the tags. Zawed (talk) 04:17, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This will also need a tag indicating status in US. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:30, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Zawed (talk) 01:53, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

File:Leslie_Andrew_VC_1927.jpg: is anything more known about this image's provenance? Nikkimaria (talk) 14:47, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It appears to be from a family album uploaded to Flickr. If it is going to present an issue, I would be happy to remove it. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 04:29, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I would do, unless more information can be found. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:30, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Removed, thanks for the image check. Zawed (talk) 01:51, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. Well done. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 22:02, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.