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The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Arthur Henry Cobby

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Promoted --Eurocopter (talk) 09:44, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator(s): Ian Rose (talk)
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Nominating this article on the highest-scoring ace in Australian service of either war. Currently B-Class, recently expanded and believe it now meets the A-Class criteria. I feel it might have the legs for FA as well, so any and all comments welcome in that regard too. Thanks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 16:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments - excellent article and a great read, just a few points: Support

  • "earning the Distinguished Flying Cross and two bars, both of which were awarded the same day, as well as the Distinguished Service Order." - this sentence is potentially misleading. I know that Cobby's Bars to his DFC were announced in the London Gazette on the same day, but they were for two seperate actions and this sentence implies that they could have be earned on the same day. Also, it seems to be grouping the DFC & Two Bars as two decorations, not three.
  • When did Cobby join the AFC?
  • "two of whom he shot down on 21 March.[6] Both Albatros D.Vs, these were his first confirmed victories." - this appears a little awkward to me, as the information is virtually cut in half. I would recommend taking the latter half of that first sentence and joining it with the second sentence.
  • For the final paragraph in the "World War I" section, I think it would be best if it was split at "By the end of his active service...". If this is done, perhaps consider moving all of the visual features done one paragraph each in this section as there is a sandwich between the first image and the infobox.
  • It is preferred that times be in the twenty-four hour varient.
  • Is the exact date known for his George Medal action?

Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 06:46, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments This is yet another great article, but I think that it needs a little bit more work. Some suggestions you might want to consider are:
    • Australian Flying Corps should probably be linked in the introduction
      • Well it just redirects to RAAF since there's no separate AFC article as yet - I have considered creating one but there are so many articles out there that refer to AFC that would need to be checked and linked if one was written that I've never bothered linking it thus far - however I don't have a particular issue doing that if you think so. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:04, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Do we know how Cobby managed to leave the bank?
I believe that Cobby spoke to the Governor of the Bank about the matter and threatened either to resign, or "jump under a train" if he wasn't permitted to join the AIF. That is at least what Cobby himself says on page 19 of his autobiography, High Adventure. I will include these details on the talk page if you would like. AustralianRupert (talk) 05:02, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Many tks, Rupert - have to admit I tend to steer away from using autobiographies directly, preferring to employ info and quotes filtered through third party bios. Also, were I to use this tidbit from High Adventure, I should probably go the whole hog with it, and I think the article is reasonably well detailed as is. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:20, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • The paragraphs in the World War I section are rather long
    • "This action earned Cobby a recommendation for a second bar to his DFC, noting..." who noted this? (was this in the citation, the recommendation or somewhere else?)
    • The article doesn't say why Cobby was relieved of his command in May 1945, and skirts over the problems 1TAF experienced under his leadership (such as the poor planning ahead of the landing at Tarakan) - I think that this needs to be expanded
      • Well the perceived lack of control over his command because of the "mutiny" was effectively it. I didn't state that explicitly because I had the quote from Barry soon after but I can probably rejig a little and also mention the Tarakan planning. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:04, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • I can add some material on Tarakan from Peter Stanley's excellent book on the battle (the poor planning of Cobby's headquarters, Bostock having to force him to reduce the RAAF landing force's bloated number of vehicles and Generals Moreshead and Berryman having a low opinion of Cobby). Everything in the book on Cobby is negative though, which is unfortunate but probably fair enough as it only covers the Battle of Tarakan, which was probably the lowest point in 1TAF's history. Nick-D (talk) 11:21, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • You mean An Australian Tragedy - yep, I've seen and used it elsewhere in connection with Jones/Bostock but would have to go to the library to get it again, so pls feel free to add a bit. However, I've expanded and rejigged slightly that last para anyway so can I suggest just a line or two as context, if necessary? I say that because the mutiny alone was what led Jones (with pressure from Bostock and Kenney and, yes, Morshead) to replace him; planning for Tarakan was never given as a reason. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:33, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • What did Cobby do between May 1945 and leaving the RAAF in 1946?
    • Is there any material which sums up Cobby's performance in World War II which you can draw on? (eg, was the Morotai Mutiny an unfitting way to end his military career, or was it reflective of difficulties he had as a senior commander?) Nick-D (talk) 08:24, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support all comments now addressed Nick-D (talk) 08:59, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Tks Nick, and tks for your additions from Stanley and the Oxford. I had considered using that quote about 'another victim' but felt it might open a can of worms in some reviewers' minds and require background of the Jones-Bostock feud, etc - however happy to leave it and see how it goes. Also re. tense, I agree the Oxford is a going concern but simply preferred to follow the same tense I'd employed for the quote from Stephens' book ('described') which is also still in print. Again, happy to leave as is... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:20, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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