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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Promoted AustralianRupert (talk) 08:21, 6 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

HMS Courageous (50)

[edit]
Nominator(s): Sturmvogel 66 (talk)
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I am nominating this article for A-Class review because I think it's ready. One of the only two ships in history to have served as a battleship or battlecruiser in combat and then to be fully converted into an aircraft carrier. Have no fear, you'll have the opportunity to read about the other in a month or so. Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 06:26, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • I'll take this article next unless you want me to swing by Hood, SV. You want me to give reasons for stuff or just launch a frontal assault? I'd prefer cruisers (no quotes) to "large light cruisers" (with quotes); putting quotes in the first sentence is just a little confusing because they could mean several different things. That's a great phrase, but we can take time to explain what it means in the first section. - Dank (push to talk) 01:28, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The details on the structural damage (see HMS Courageous (50)#First World War) may or may not be more than most of you guys want to know. In general, the issue of what makes an interesting ship article, what you guys want to see more or less of, is a call that shouldn't be made by a copyeditor, so comments are welcome. - Dank (push to talk) 16:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Btw, would someone be willing to run through this article and future articles at A-class (I think we've covered the ones up to now) and link the terms that most readers aren't likely to know? If you spot a term but don't know a good link, either let us know or red-link it. I've already run through this article deleting second links to the same article ... if the article might get to FAC some day, please don't add links that we already have anywhere in the text (but once in the infoboxes and once in the text is fine). - Dank (push to talk) 22:11, 19 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Actually ... what we really need, and I'll do it later if no one else gets to it, is run through the 30 FAs and A-class articles before this one and see what we linked to (we've been pretty careful) and make a list so that people will know what to link and where to link to. I don't see any reason this couldn't be automated into a tab that links every term in an article that appears in that list, and also checks to make sure we don't link twice. We don't need this for A-class, but most of these articles can and do go on to FAC. - Dank (push to talk) 14:53, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • When the time of day is mentioned in one of these articles, we usually provide, and I recommend, a note telling us whether it's Greenwich time or CET, since British sources will generally give give one and German sources will give the other. - Dank (push to talk) 17:53, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Although Google searches are kind of an amateurish way to gauge English usage, my Google search is showing Captain Lieutenant (sometimes hyphenated) as much more common than Kapitänleutnant in English sources, so I went with the section link Captain Lieutenant. Feel free to revert. - Dank (push to talk) 21:30, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is "Rear Admiral" hyphenated in British English? - Dank (push to talk) 21:50, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first paragraph under Conversion gave the recommissioning date as May 1928 per Burt. I removed this since the date was given as February a few paragraphs later, but feel free to re-insert, explain or swap it for the other date. - Dank (push to talk) 01:19, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd like to put a "the" in front of 800 Squadron; is that doable? "She carried 800 Squadron" is going to be misread by some. - Dank (push to talk) 03:05, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support, per usual disclaimer. I would appreciate it if someone would check my copyediting. - Dank (push to talk) 18:14, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support for A-class, but with a few comments/questions for improvement:

  • Trials damage: exact cause is uncertain. probably needs a citation; I think its a contestible claim.
    • Done.
  • In mid-1917 Courageous received a dozen torpedo tubes in pairs:... might need a bit of rewording to clarify, something like received six paired torpedo tube sets:...?
    • Reworded, but I'm not sure that's it's much of an improvement. See what you think.
  • The 1st Cruiser Squadron was ordered to attempt to intercept the German ships, but they proved to be faster than hoped and the British ships were unsuccessful. This comes across as a bit wordy...maybe The 1st Cruiser Squadron were ordered to intercept, but were unsuccessful as the German cruisers were faster than expected.?
    • Done.
  • Is there any recorded use of the Struter and Camel embarked at the start of 1918?
    • No, probably because there weren't any significant actions during the year.
  • "Conversion": For context, can you specify when Furious was converted, and how Courageous' design was improved?
    • Is it now clearer?
  • For what purpose did the ship carry 34,500 gallons of petrol?
    • Added
  • "Air Group": Do you know which squadrons were embarked during between 1928 and 1933? During what time period were 810, 820, and 821 Squadrons embarked? I assume that 811 Squadron was aboard for the duration after embarking in early 1939, but when was 801 Squadron replaced by 822 Squadron?
    • The air units were flights before '33. I can dig up which ones were assigned to the ship, but I'm fairly certain that they were swapped back and forth quite a bit.
  • "Sinking" I don't think the linked article is the best way to describe the WWII RN hunter-killer groups. Instead, you could probably adapt some of the content (particulary the second-half of the first paragraph) from HMS Ark Royal (91)#With the hunter-killer groups.
    • Found a better link.
  • Can you specify the number of survivors?
    • Nothing I have lists their numbers.
  • Are their any memorials regarding the loss of the carrier?
    • Beats me, I haven't heard of any.

There may be more to come. Hope this all helps. -- saberwyn 21:42, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Round 2:

  • Was the ship originally a battlecruiser (class article), a light battlecruiser (infobox), a cruiser (lead), or a large light cruiser (previous lead)? Would it be worth footnoting the first occurence in the lead, with what various sources describe her as?
    • I'm not exactly sure how the RN handled this sort of stuff, but I'm fairly certain that she was initially designated as a large light cruiser because of the limitation on the size of new construction laid down by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in 1915. Afterwards, I have no idea. Fisher did refer to her as a light battlecruiser on occasion, but he tended to be a bit loose in his language.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 22:07, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "30% larger airgroup" claim should be copied into the body and cited.
  • Can you provide a conversion for the 1916 construction cost? -- saberwyn 21:24, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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