Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Peer review/Slayer

Slayer

This article is on the thrash metal band. I wish to bring this article up to FA standards and would like any input on the subject. As far as i can tell, its well referenced and layed out. I think the weakness is some of the wording and would like some help with that, thanks!. M3tal H3ad 12:07, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Underneath-it-All

Well written, interesting article! The image in the infobox should be a free use image as that seems to be the trend now with featured articles. I've also noticed from looking at other featured articles on musicians that the chart peaks are written out. For example instead of #2 it's written number two. It just might be a stylistic thing though. Good luck with the article. -- Underneath-it-All 15:52, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at other band FAs and chart peaks were written as you suggested, changed it in this. I also can't seem to find a decent picture of them with one of those CC licenses (best picture is under 'Christ illusion' section, Thanks for tips. M3tal H3ad 11:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just added a new picture under a CC license. It's not great but it will have to do for the article to get FA. M3tal H3ad 13:08, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good. Good luck with the article! Underneath-it-All 04:24, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Seegoon

I've given it a quick look, and here are the things I've noticed:

It's common these days in band articles to add a flag icon to the infobox before the text in "origin". In this case, it'd be {{flagicon|USA}}, producing .
"Reign in Blood", which has been labeled "the heaviest album of all time"" - needs citation.
Another stylistic thing I've seen becoming prevalent in band articles is including years in parentheses at the end of each section heading in "History". For instance, maybe amending "Early days" to "Early days (1982-1983)", or "Early days: 1982-1983". This is a matter of taste, but personally I think it helps the audience establish context more clearly.
I think WP:MUSIC asks that you put "(see 19xx in music)" after the more important years in the existence of a band. For instance, I'd put "(see 1982 in music)" after "In 1982", at the start of "Early days".
""Aggressive Perfector",(sample (help·info)) [3]" - there's a space between the closing bracket and the reference.
You have "Haunting North America" in quotation marks, but 1984 Combat Tour in italics. I don't know which is the preferred style, but I think you should decide on one.
I don't feel that the second paragraph of Hell Awaits flows particularly well. The sentences seem unrelated and choppy, but it shouldn't take too long to rectify.
"Although the album received virtually no radio airplay, Reign in Blood" - you have an audio sample here. If the sample is of a song, it should be in "quotation marks", not italics.
"Lombardo later said: "I wasn't making any money. I figured if we were gonna be doing this professionally, on a major label, I wanted my rent and utilities paid."" - needs citation.
"As a result, 1988's South of Heaven received criticism from longtime fans, although the album was Slayer's most commercially successful release at the time." - I'm not sure that this needs citation, but I'm sure it could do with it if you're ever winging for GA or FA.
"Judgement Night" - I think movies go in italics. I might be wrong, so check the WP:MOS or something.
Paragraph titles for "Undisputed Attitude", "Diabolus in Musica", "God Hates Us All" and "Christ Illusion" need to be made italic. Also, the sections on the first two albums I just mentioned are very short, and surely the lawsuit is a massive part of the bands' history, and could be expanded.
"The release date was delayed, as Wal-Mart would not carry the album with the original nailed bible cover art." - this must be quite easy to find reference material for, and needs citation.
"pushed the release back to 9/11" - "9/11" is very American, so could do with changing to "September 11" for simplification for an international readership.
""Best Metal Performance" on January 8, 2002, the award was won by Tool." - this doesn't flow very well. Consider changing to something like "2002; the award eventually went to Tool, for "song title"", or something similar.
With ""Tattoo the Planet"", you've again reverted to putting tour names in quotation marks - you need to check the whole article and come up with a standard.
"Dates had to be canceled or postponed due to flight restrictions. The bands decided to withdraw or postpone dates." - this doesn't flow very well. It could easily be improved by deleting the full stop and "The", and replacing with ", and some". Meh I'm not explaining myself very well.
"Slayer toured playing Reign in Blood entirety throughout the fall of 2003, under the tour banner "Still Reigning". Their playing of the final song "Raining Blood" culminated with the band being drenched in a rain of fake blood." For one, you need to italicise Reign in Blood, and secondly, I'd advise you rewrite this completely. The standard of prose at this stage in the article has fallen dramatically since the beginning.
In the last sentence of that same paragraph, there's a "with" with a capital W.
"During 2002 to 2004" - change to "From 2002 to 2004". In fact, consider rewriting that entire paragraph. Don't consider, actually. Just DO. It's crap.
"The anticipated album Christ Illusion was to be released on June 6, 2006. Due to recording difficulties, the date was pushed back." - I'd rewrite this too. My take: "The highly anticipated album Christ Illusion was originally set to be released on June 6, 2006, but due to recording difficulties, the date was pushed back."
"Cult was also released on the bands website on June 6, 2006 at 6:06am." - "Cult" should be in quotation marks, not italics.
"Christ Illusion improved on their previous highest charting album Divine Intervention, which debuted at #8." - this prose isn't as good as it could be. I'd change it to "Christ Illusion's performance in the charts improved upon that of the their previous highest charting album, Divine Intervention, which debuted at #8."
"Slayer fans are referred to as the Slaytanic Wehrmacht,[51] which refers to the armed forces of the Nazi-Germany." - who refers to them like this? It might say so in the reference, but I sure as hell don't want to bother reading through another article to find out. Also, I don't think "Nazi-Germany" needs a hyphen.
"...death and Satan among other things. Tom stated they..." It seems weird for the article to be on a first name basis with him.
"...depicts Christ himself..." - "himself" makes the writer sound Christian. This is supposed to be neutral, I'd remove it.

OK I said I had a quick look... in the end this took a fair while. However, some of what I've written might be complete nonsense or confusing. If you have trouble, just reply here or on my talk page. All in all, I hope some of this has been useful for you; a good band article is a rare thing on Wikipedia and needs all the TLC it can be afforded. Good luck with it. Seegoon 21:03, 25 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I've dealt with most of the problems(i hope), but there is still some choppy sentences. I still need to expand Diabolus, can't find any more information during that period . I also need a reference for South of heaven most successful album.

* "Reign in Blood", which has been labeled "the heaviest album of all time"" - needs citation. With this i have it referenced under the Reigning Blood section, is that ok or do i add one to the lead?

Once again thanks for all your help! :) M3tal H3ad 10:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm... I'm not sure about that. I'd read WP:CITE as a starting point, or ask a veteran Wikipedian. Besides that, I think the article looks a lot tidier now. It flows better too, and bears striking similarities with some GA and FA music articles. If you come unstuck in the future, just hit up my talk page and I'll do what I can. Seegoon 11:10, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

PS - "While opening for Bitch at the Woodstock Club in Los Angeles, Slayer were spotted by Brian Slagel, a former music journalist who had recently founded Metal Blade Records. Slagel convinced the band to record an original song "Aggressive Perfector",(sample (help·info))[3] for his upcoming Metal Massacre III compilation, released in July 1983. The song created underground buzz, and the band signed a recording contract with Metal Blade." - you say Metal Blade twice here, which is probably unnecessary, and both mentions are wikilinked, which is also extraneous. You're only really required to link the first mention of something. Besides that, the second wikilink is to the wrong article. Seegoon 11:13, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Done. I think the weak section of the article is God hates us All and Christ illusion, lots of choppy sentences. I've done my best to try remove but it still needs work, if you could take another look i would greatly appreciate it. Also if you want any pointers to get Isis to GA status i will gladly help. M3tal H3ad 13:10, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Resetting the indent...

I know what you mean about those sections, they feel a little bit like information has been tacked on, one thing after another, as opposed to it all being written at once. With that in mind, here's my take on how it could be improved: "After delays regarding remixing and artwork,[28] including slip cover inserts being made to cover the original artwork after censorship issues, God Hates Us All was released on September 11, 2001. Promotional material announcing the album title and release date drew an unintended connection with the September 11 terrorist attacks. The title track "Disciple" received the band their first Grammy nomination, for "Best Metal Performance" on January 8, 2002; the award eventually went to Tool, for "Schism".[29] Drummer Bostaph left the band shortly after the album's release due to a chronic elbow injury, stating it would hinder his ability to play.[30] He was replaced by original drummer Dave Lombardo.[30]" I swear there was information about Walmart boycotting the cover in there before, too. You'll have to re-wikilink and re-reference, but I'm sure that wouldn't be too tough. As for the second paragraph: "The 2001 European tour Tattoo the Planet was jeopardized by the September 11 attacks. The tour was originally set to feature Pantera, Static X, Biohazard and Vision of Disorder, but dates had to be canceled or postponed due to flight restrictions, and some bands decided to withdraw, leaving only Slayer and Static X remaining for the European leg of the tour.[31] Pantera, Vision of disorder and Biohazard were replaced by Cradle of Filth and other bands dependant upon location; among those bands were Amorphis, In Flames, Moonspell, Children of Bodom and Necrodeath." I hope that's a little better, I can look at more later. As for Isis - just read through and if any of it sounds like shit, tell me! I know it's at 80% of its potential at best, it just needs a fresh set of eyes. Seegoon 16:53, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Changed a lot of wording, the second paragraph of Christ illusion is the only choppy section left (i hope). M3tal H3ad 09:40, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think WP:MUSIC asks that you put "(see 19xx in music)" after the more important years in the existence of a band. For instance, I'd put "(see 1982 in music)" after "In 1982", at the start of "Early days". Please don't put parenthetical (see whatevers) into the text - just link to the year in music. Nice ref work :-) Sandy (Talk) 00:34, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can't believe I'm correcting Sandy here of all Wikipedians, but sorry. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Music/MUSTARD/Internal_linking guideline two states (in full) "Do not use piped links to years in music (e.g., do not write: The Beatles Please Please Me came out in 1963). Instead, sparingly use parentheses after years mentioned in the article, such as The Beatles released Please Please Me in 1963 (see 1963 in music). In discography charts or other specialized forms, it is acceptable to use non-piped links to the 'year in music' articles. Generally avoid linking non-dated chronological items, such as "1988", "1920s" and "20th century"." There ya have it! Seegoon 17:15, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yannsimarou

I love to review articles about bands! I'm sorry if I repeat what the other reviewers have suggested, but I do not have the time to read their remarks in detail. This is my review:

"Slayer is often credited as one of the "Big Four" thrash metal bands, along with Megadeth, Metallica, and Anthrax." Citation please!
"Reign in Blood, which has been labeled "the heaviest album of all time". I read the discussion above. If you cite this assertion later, you do not have to repeat the citing in the lead. Otherwise, you have to cite this assertion in the lead.
Try not to have stubby paragraphs as in "Early days (1982-1983)".
I have the impression "label" (used very often in the article) usually has a negative meaning (label somebody as a criminal). But again I'm not sure!
"Slayer returned to the studio to record their fourth studio album. To contrast the speed of Reign in Blood, the band consciously decided to slow down new material, incorporating melodic singing, rather than screaming." What do you mean, when you say that they "slowed down new material". The slowing down was the incorporation of melodic singing?
""pounding speed of Reign in Blood". Who is quoted here? Steve?
Try to have at least one citation in each paragraph.
"1994 saw the release of Divine Intervention. The new record, Slayer's first with new drummer Paul Bostaph." I think the syntax is a bit problematic here. Two choppy sentence one after the other. I would suggest an overall sopy-editing by an external native English user.
"God Hates Us All was released on September 11, 2001. The release date was delayed several times, due to remixing and artwork concerns.[28] Slip cover inserts were made to cover the original artwork, delaying the albums release till September 11. Promotional material announcing the album title and release date drew an unintended connection with the September 11 terrorist attacks. The title track "Disciple" received the band their first Grammy nomination, for "Best Metal Performance" on January 8, 2002; the award went to Tool, for "Schism".[29] Bostaph left the band shortly after the release of the album due to a chronic elbow injury, stating it would hinder his ability to play.[30] He was replaced by original drummer Dave Lombardo.[30]" This paragraph is another example of the problematic article flow. Too short sentences, not well-connected together, and with seamless passings from one issue to another (from terrorist attacks to Grammy, from Grammy to Bostaph's leaving).
Minor: alphabetize categories at the end of the article.--Yannismarou 18:25, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

thanks,

What word would i use instead of 'labeled', called doesn't sound formal.

Characterized as, regarded as; personally, I also prefer called than labeled. But I cannot give you the best kind of advice here, since I am not a native English speaker. I just don't feel comfortmble with 'labeled' (don't take my opinion for definitely correct!). I remember that User:Tutmosis had recently written a nice FA about a musician K-os, and seems familiar with music terminology. You could advise him or even read the article to take some ideas.--Yannismarou 10:38, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That quote is taken from Steve so do i mention that?

Not necessarily, if you put a citation where the quote ends.--Yannismarou 10:38, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

When mentioning slowing down material should i put slowed down the tempo?

It sounds better to me, but again per my answer in your first question.--Yannismarou 10:38, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'll add that citation later thanks for the pointers. M3tal H3ad 03:16, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Done, done and done. Thanks M3tal H3ad 11:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just fixed the Grammy and terrorist paragraph by moving the mention of terrorist attacks to the tour which was jeopardized by it. M3tal H3ad 11:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]