Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Richard Wagner

Richard Wagner

This nomination predates the introduction in April 2014 of article-specific subpages for nominations and has been created from the edit history of Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests.

This is the archived discussion of the TFAR nomination for the article below. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests). Please do not modify this page.

The result was: scheduled for Wikipedia:Today's featured article/May 22, 2013 by Bencherlite ^Talk 09:29, 13 May 2013‎ (UTC)[reply]

Richard Wagner (1813 – 1883) was a German composer, theatre director, polemicist, and conductor primarily known for his operas. His compositions, particularly those of his later period, are notable for their complex textures, rich harmonies and orchestration, and the elaborate use of leitmotifs—musical phrases associated with individual characters, places, ideas or plot elements. These innovations greatly influenced the development of classical music; his Tristan und Isolde is sometimes described as marking the start of modern music. Wagner revolutionised opera through his concept of synthesising the poetic, visual, musical and dramatic arts. He first realised these ideas in his four-opera cycle The Ring of the Nibelung. He had his own opera house built at Bayreuth, containing many novel design features, where his most important stage works continue to be performed in an annual festival run by his descendants. Until his final years, Wagner's life was characterised by political exile, turbulent love affairs, poverty and repeated flight from his creditors. Wagner's controversial writings on music, drama and politics have attracted extensive comment in recent decades, especially where they express antisemitic sentiments. The effect of his ideas can be traced in many of the arts throughout the 20th century; their influence spread beyond composition into conducting, philosophy, literature, the visual arts and theatre. (Full article...)

11 points, I think: Vital article (4), bicentenary of his birth on 22 May (6), 'requestor (me) is a significant contributor to the article, and has not previously had an article appear as Today's featured article'. Wagner's bicentenary is being celebrated round the world, this would be a fitting contribution by Wikipedia. Thanks.Smerus (talk) 14:12, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support no question.--Chimino (talk) 15:15, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Important composer, major anniversary. Definitely. Espresso Addict (talk) 20:17, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support obvious choice for mainpage. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:03, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments: all for him, of course, see the FA review. In the blurb, "Wagner transformed operatic thought through his concept of synthesising the poetic, visual, musical and dramatic arts." seems strong stuff for the uninitiated reader, - what is "operatic thought" supposed to mean? I suggest that "Bayreuth" gets mentioned, not only pipe-linked. I wonder we should end on "antisemitic sentiments", - it should be mentioned, but is it the last word on him? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:46, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I tried here before, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:49, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Gerda; the last two sentences could be swapped. Espresso Addict (talk) 01:33, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

OK I have swapped as you suggest.--Smerus (talk) 14:12, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:22, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Ties Nixon at 11.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:25, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support, certainly. Per Gerda's comment above, I think "...in the annual Bayreuth Festival" would be a reasonable link; even an uncultured oaf like myself has heard of it by name ;-) Andrew Gray (talk) 12:07, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree about Bayreuth, and will edit accordingly. The other points raised by Gerda were thrashed through in the FA review and I don't see the mileage in starting over on them.--Smerus (talk) 12:51, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The article is one thing, the blurb for the Main page, for unprepared people, another. I don't think "operatic thought" is a good term for them. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:12, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"operetic thought" is an inaccurate term actually, and is meaningless. What is meant is that Wagner changed how opera was viewed, seen or enjoyed. Opera is a performing art and is viewed rather than an intellectual pursuit that is thought about, and the phrase has to say that. Further the point being made is that Wagner marked a change in how opera was viewed and enjoyed making it more approachable to more people. That has to be clearly articulated in the article in clear language that appropriately references a performing art.(olive (talk) 16:31, 25 April 2013 (UTC))[reply]

Interesting that it is both 'meaningless', and yet all the same the 'point being made' is clear! OK, I propose (as above) 'enriched the potential of opera', and have edited the article similarly.--Smerus (talk) 17:07, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support TFA, but for the rewording, how about just simply "transformed opera" or "modernized opera" or "revolutionized opera" -- something simple and direct, "enriched the potential of opera...?" Hmm, that's a dependent clause, not answering the "for what" question. Montanabw^(talk) 17:16, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think 'transformed' will quite do, since not everyone took up his ideas - 'modernized', yes, but didn't all major opera composers do that in their day and in their way (Gluck, Mozart, Meyerbeer even, ......). 'Revolutionized' could be good, as it carries the idea that he really shook things up... what do others think?--Smerus (talk) 17:52, 25 April 2013 (UTC)think....[reply]

I believe the text is referring both to a change in the approachability to opera and to the critical thought on opera. If one word works for both, fine. I'm supposed to be on a self enforced break so I'll leave you all to it. (olive (talk) 18:31, 25 April 2013 (UTC))[reply]

Er....I wrote the text; and I certainly had in mind critical thought on opera, but also certainly not 'approachability'. Whilst Wagner himself thought that people en masse would rush to lap up his ideas, this proved far from the case; in fact ironically his biggest fans were exactly the elite whom, when he evolved his ideas in his socialist phase, he despised. But as there's no snappy way of getting all that into a couple of words, I still favour 'revolutionized'.........and will put that in the paragraph above, save that the article uses throughout the '...ised' spelling of such words. --Smerus (talk) 19:23, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support, this high quality vital article. — Cirt (talk) 17:54, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. - Nice work on an extemely important article. GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 00:06, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

thanks,Gabe!--Smerus (talk) 16:32, 27 April 2013 (UTC)--Smerus (talk) 16:32, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support as a no-brainer, quite honestly. Prioryman (talk) 13:56, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]