Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Kender/Sources

Sources that may be useful for Kender.

Provide full citation information, along with selected useful quotes from the source. Please avoid quotes of excessive length, both for the ease of other participants and out of respect for our references intellectual property.

Add each new source to a new section.

"All About the Kender", Dragon

It's a primary source, but here's one: "All About the Kender". Moore, Roger E.; "Dragon #101", Dragonlance new race: the Kender.

A friend pointed that one out to me, I think from an online index. If someone out there has the Dragon CD ROM archive set, you should have access to this source; I currently don't. BOZ (talk) 13:49, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition", Pyramid

"The half-orc is the only "new" race, although it's really just a throwback to 1st Edition, but halflings have also been changed a bit, making them less like hobbits and more like Kender from Dragonlance. I don't know why this change had to be made, but I preferred the hobbit clones."

Mowery, Kevin (August 18, 2000). "Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition". Pyramid. Steve Jackson Games.

It's a minor mention, but might be useful in a comparison section looking at Hobbits, Halflings and Kender - Bilby (talk) 23:54, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The quote is not really about Kender per se; its more about the preferences of one person (Mowery). I would class this as trivial. --Gavin Collins (talk) 02:04, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed - it certainly doesn't speak to notability. But it is published in an RS, so it might be of value anyway. - Bilby (talk) 03:13, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Indeed; doesn't speak to notability, but still a source for reception, just not for Kender per se; I think it would be good, thinking about it, to include a section comparing Kender with other "halflings", with sourced analysis such as this. SamBC(talk) 12:47, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Dragonlance: Fifth Age", Pyramid

"... and the Kender of Kendermore have known something formerly thought impossible — fear."

"... but the Fifth Age has changed many races, including the new Thinker Gnomes, whose creations actually work, and Afflicted Kender, who are more somber and cautious than their kin."

Grau, Matthew D (January 1, 1997). "Dragonlance: Fifth Age". Pyramid. Steve Jackson Games.

Possible additional information for the claim "Kender don't feel fear" and a reference to Afflicted Kender for the "Types of Kender" section. - Bilby (talk) 23:54, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Halflings: The Race Who Shouldn't Have Been", Gamegrene

"The only Halfling-like race that truly deserves to be recognized for its particular contribution to world politics is the Kender, the kleptomaniacs of Dragonlance. If all Halflings were like that, I would have no problem whatsoever. The Kender represent a truly unique group of beings with powers very unlike their fellow demi-humans. They operate on different levels and have very different attitudes towards life, making them exciting and wonderful as NPCs and player characters. However, the Halflings are not Kender, though the Kender may be classified as Halflings."

Sir Darius (September 8, 2003). "Halflings: The Race Who Shouldn't Have Been". Gamegrene. Retrieved 2008-05-24.

Nice quote, but I'm not sure about whether it is reliable. The about section suggests that it may be, and they have paid some of their writers, which is a good sign, but I'm still undecided on this. - Bilby (talk) 23:54, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can't say I agree; self-published sources are not reliable. Citing an author who writes under a nom de plume is a mock citation in my view.--Gavin Collins (talk) 02:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not convinced either. I'm not sure of the status of the site, as the payments to contributers suggest that it may not be self published, but I tossed it in here just in case it was of value. nom de plumes certainly bother me, too. - Bilby (talk) 03:12, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's certainly a far cry from an ideal source, but it's certainly at least near to meeting RS; it's not self-published, there's editorial control and everything. The pseudonym is rather a red herring; many writers over the years have written under pen names. The only thing distinguishing this is that the pen name doesn't look like it could every be anyone's real name. That makes some difference, but certainly not a decisive one. Gamegrene is certainly not a run-of-the-mill fansite, it does appear to be a basically commercial operation. SamBC(talk) 12:56, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Primary Sources - Games

According to one of my D&D creature indexes, the following game supplements are likely to be good for sourcing information in the article (although are not likely to be the only good primary sources):

Time of the Dragon [Rulebook of Taladas] (1989)
Dragonlance Adventures (1987)
Monstrous Compendium Dragonlance Appendix (MC4) (1990)
Complete Book of Gnomes and Halflings (PHBR9) (1993)
Dungeon #86 (May 2001)
Dragonlance Campaign Setting (2003)
Races of Ansalon (2007)

I don't currenly have access to any of these, although I could probably dig out about half of them over the weekend if needed. BOZ (talk) 14:47, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Primary Sources - Novels

The Annotated Chronicles (Weis, Margaret & Hickman, Tracy; Wizards of the Coast, 2002 [1])
The Annotated Legends (Weis, Margaret & Hickman, Tracy; Wizards of the Coast, 2003 [2])

You can actually search these sources online if you have an account there. The books can be searched by key word, and it appears that the entire text can be looked at in this way. --Gavin Collins (talk) 15:01, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- Unfortunately, you have to both have an account on amazon.com (rather than amazon.co.uk or another country's version) and have actually bought things on amazon.com. At least, it won't let me look at search results and so on. There doesn't appear to be a search-inside for this book on amazon.co.uk. This doesn't make it an invalid source in any way; just clarifying the restrictions on viewing it online. SamBC(talk) 15:16, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I recomend you register anyway, as these books are about the only reliable primary source outside the games and novels, since they contain bothe the text of the novels but also real-world annotations and commentary from the creators of the Kender. However, I can look up stuff if you ask me or else you can put questions to the authors Hickman and Weiss at their personal web forum Dragonhearth.--Gavin Collins (talk) 15:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've got a copy of The Annotated Chronicles on order, so I should be able to help with that some time next week. - Bilby (talk) 23:16, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]