Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2024 February 23

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February 23

Does a photon measure set its velocity as plus C, i.e. from the left to the right, or as minus C, i.e. from the right to the left?

Two observers looking at each other, see a photon move between them on their axis of right/left. Observer A sees the photon move at plus C, i.e. from the left to the right. So, observer B, who looks at observer A, must see the photon move at minus C, i.e. from the right to the left. But what about what the photon sees when measuring setting its velocity? Will the photon set its velocity as plus C, i.e. from the left to the right, or it will set its velocity as minus C, i.e. from the right to the left? HOTmag (talk) 01:18, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

A photon cannot measure its own velocity, not just because it is not a physicist, but mainly because it has no proper time. Any two events along a lightlike curve have $\Delta \tau =0$ and the photon cannot derive a speed from that. --Wrongfilter (talk) 07:05, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Thx.

I apologize, because I was probably wrong with choosing my words. Actually, instead of "measuring" I meant "setting". Anyway, please notice, that according to the principle of the constancy of the speed of light, the photon doesn't have to measure anything - e.g. its speed, because (even without being a physicist or a human being) the photon has already set its speed as carrying the absolute value of C, hasn't it? I assume you agree it has (without measuring anything), so the only question remaining is about whether the direction set by the photon is plus C - i.e. from the left to the right, or the other way around - i.e. minus C. I hope my question is clearer now. HOTmag (talk) 07:47, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

(ec) $\Delta \tau =0$ implies that there is no direction. The photon cannot say that it was first here, then there, or the other way round because it is here and there at the same time. --Wrongfilter (talk) 07:56, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

There is no physical concept of a particle "setting" its velocity. Velocity is a vector quantity; a description of the measure of a velocity requires a frame of reference. The velocity of a particle does not depend on the selected reference frame; it is only the description of its measure that does depend on it. Photons can do many things; selecting a reference frame for describing the measure of its velocity is not one of them.  --Lambiam 13:12, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

The entire Universe is split into the two half-universes occupied repectively by observers A and B. Any observer distinguishes "right" or "left" relative to a personal baseline such as the separation of their eyes. An observer can quantify the travel of a photon only after its arrival at a destination target is timed. Then if the source of the photon is known, occupants of A and B can agree about the photon's velocity C in vacuum but disagree about its left/right direction, however all are equally correct. On a later occasion an investigator may choose to walk the path of the long-gone photon; we do not need his opinion about right or left because the only path he follows is "straight ahead". Let's not complicate this with gravitational lensing or "conscious" photons. Philvoids (talk) 14:16, 23 February 2024 (UTC)