Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2023 September 17
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September 17
[edit]Tall facades in saloons of the wild west
[edit]There often seem to be tall board structures (facing the street) in saloons. The roof is a gable roof but the appearance of any roof is hidden from the street behind the raised façade that often bears the name of the place or has a small window in it. See: [1] or [2] What is that structure called? Does it have a distinct name in architecture? --176.72.99.43 (talk) 19:13, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- Western false front architecture calls this "a vertical facade with a square top, often hiding a gable roof". -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 19:25, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- One sees a similar idea at play in Regency buildings in Britain, where a pitched roof is hidden behind a façade. DuncanHill (talk) 19:41, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- Such parapets, in British architecture, are mostly a creature of the building acts that came in following the Great Fire of London (the Mischiefs by Fire Act 1707, and then the Building Act 1774). The Great Fire had propagated so readily because many buildings (following a medieval pattern) had extensive wooden fronts, wooden roofs, and projected over the roadway. The various acts reduced the amount of wood in the facade and roof and outlawed the overhanging. The fire parapets were stone walls which surrounded roofs that could burn. During the Great Fire, roofs of burning buildings had detached and slid down, falling several metres outward into the roadway. This prevented the road from being an adequate firebreak, and the property opposite caught light. The masonry fire parapet was intended to "catch" the sliding roof, preventing it from chucking itself across the road. Like most utilitarian architectural features, it became an architectural ornament in its own right. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 20:06, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Finlay McWalter: I don't want to detract from this topic, but does your comment explain why author Iain M. Banks is obsessed with parapets in the Culture series? As an American reader, it really sticks out to me. In other words, as a Scottish author, does it make sense that parapets would play such a large role in his architectural descriptions? Prior to reading his works, I can't recall any American author using them in fictional world building. Viriditas (talk) 20:53, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- I wasn't conscious of that, so I don't know at all. Maybe he just liked the word; some words just have nice mouthfeel. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 22:01, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Finlay McWalter: I don't want to detract from this topic, but does your comment explain why author Iain M. Banks is obsessed with parapets in the Culture series? As an American reader, it really sticks out to me. In other words, as a Scottish author, does it make sense that parapets would play such a large role in his architectural descriptions? Prior to reading his works, I can't recall any American author using them in fictional world building. Viriditas (talk) 20:53, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
- Such parapets, in British architecture, are mostly a creature of the building acts that came in following the Great Fire of London (the Mischiefs by Fire Act 1707, and then the Building Act 1774). The Great Fire had propagated so readily because many buildings (following a medieval pattern) had extensive wooden fronts, wooden roofs, and projected over the roadway. The various acts reduced the amount of wood in the facade and roof and outlawed the overhanging. The fire parapets were stone walls which surrounded roofs that could burn. During the Great Fire, roofs of burning buildings had detached and slid down, falling several metres outward into the roadway. This prevented the road from being an adequate firebreak, and the property opposite caught light. The masonry fire parapet was intended to "catch" the sliding roof, preventing it from chucking itself across the road. Like most utilitarian architectural features, it became an architectural ornament in its own right. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 20:06, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- The second link is clearly leading to swan neck pediment (pediment), although the relationship with gables in text might appear paradoxical (I don't believe paradoxes are in any way foreign to the theme with pediments: "For symmetric designs, it provides a center point and is often used to add grandness to entrances.") Take a look at Main Street, USA, for where grandness comes to appear to be in need of being reduced (after it's been decided it did. ) --Askedonty (talk) 20:23, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- I note that the first item in the list of definitions of Western false front architecture is 'the front façade of the building "rises to form a parapet (upper wall) which hides most or nearly all of the roof"'. In passing, note that the parapets seen in stone vaulted churches are not just for display. They load the walls at the point that the roof thrusts outwards and bring the resultant vector within the masonry. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:25, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, that's how it goes with text. There is de:Bekrönung, but if one follows the links in it, it leads to gable again, the one that's a facade ornament. But as well, considering the Oregon Greenhorn town picture in Western false front architecture, possibly excluding maybe two houses also comprising a front facade canopy, the square-topped wooden facades can hardly be suspected of being usefull as bearing-wall structures. Maybe the first facade canopy leftside might be giving a bit of strength somehow? no, it's rather falling forward-. --Askedonty (talk) 21:35, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- I note that the first item in the list of definitions of Western false front architecture is 'the front façade of the building "rises to form a parapet (upper wall) which hides most or nearly all of the roof"'. In passing, note that the parapets seen in stone vaulted churches are not just for display. They load the walls at the point that the roof thrusts outwards and bring the resultant vector within the masonry. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:25, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- The second link is clearly leading to swan neck pediment (pediment), although the relationship with gables in text might appear paradoxical (I don't believe paradoxes are in any way foreign to the theme with pediments: "For symmetric designs, it provides a center point and is often used to add grandness to entrances.") Take a look at Main Street, USA, for where grandness comes to appear to be in need of being reduced (after it's been decided it did. ) --Askedonty (talk) 20:23, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- I scanned multiple resources and the consensus is simple. This was a trend among gold-rush era construction. Buildings were built very quickly as merchants followed the boomtown spread. They wanted to get customers for their services, so they wanted to have an impressive looking building. Adding a facade to the commercial building had the effect of making it look like a long-standing business rather than a building that was quickly thrown together over the past couple weeks. Once you passed through the door, the interior was usually far less impressive. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 18:26, 18 September 2023 (UTC)