Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2023 April 9
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April 9
[edit]is evolution a example of survivoship bias?
[edit]is evolution a example of survivoship bias?2804:40A8:11F:7B00:7A8E:6A38:3CF6:D18C (talk) 14:20, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
- Presumably you're talking about Survivorship bias. How would natural selection qualify as "bias"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:27, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
- That's what the OP is asking! --Viennese Waltz 09:36, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- I'm asking the OP. Are you the OP? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:08, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- Sigh. You're missing the point, as usual. The point is, the question you asked the OP is just a reworded version of the question they are asking the desk. Therefore, your intervention is pointless. --Viennese Waltz 17:50, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- You're missing the point. To me, the OP's question is ambiguous, and I would like some clarification from the OP, not from self-styled mind-readers. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:50, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- Sigh. You're missing the point, as usual. The point is, the question you asked the OP is just a reworded version of the question they are asking the desk. Therefore, your intervention is pointless. --Viennese Waltz 17:50, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- I'm asking the OP. Are you the OP? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:08, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- That's what the OP is asking! --Viennese Waltz 09:36, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- The theory of biological Evolution acknowledges the advantage or "survivor bias" for individuals who despite environmental difficulties breed surviving progeny to maintain their heritable characteristics over successive generations in a population. That is not the same as Survivorship bias which is a faulty conclusion drawn from data that is subsequently shown to have been incomplete. Philvoids (talk) 11:51, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- Drawing conclusions about all species based on all surviving species would be a case of survivorship bias. Random person no 362478479 (talk) 17:23, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- I believe an example can make this clearer. A popular example of evolution from the Galápagos Islands is a bird with a long narrow beak that helps it get food, survive, and breed. Those without the long narrow beak have difficulty getting the same level of nutrition and do not breed as often. Therefore, the long beak trait is passed on more frequently. There is no survivorship bias because evolution is performing a study on the birds in any way. Evolution, in this case, is merely a survival of the fittest scenario in which birds that survive better breed more often. Now, separate from evolution, if a person were to examine only the birds who survived, ignoring all those did not, and make a judgement about their ability to survive, that would have survivorship bias because the birds that did not survive are ignored and conclusions of the research are biased. Without the study and conclusions, claiming "bias" requires a person to use two very different definitions of the word and then claim that the two definitions mean exactly the same thing. Evolutionary bias, in this case, means that a certain trait is expressed more often due to fitness to survive. Survivorship bias, in this case, means that the conclusions are being skewed due to incomplete data being examined. The two definitions of "bias" are not related to one another. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 19:44, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- A well reasoned answer 97. Thank you. The Beak of the Finch is worth reading for anyone who would like more details about the example the IP has used. MarnetteD|Talk 19:50, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- Fortunately, we have large quantities of non-surviving species to assess too. Iapetus (talk) 10:41, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
- I believe an example can make this clearer. A popular example of evolution from the Galápagos Islands is a bird with a long narrow beak that helps it get food, survive, and breed. Those without the long narrow beak have difficulty getting the same level of nutrition and do not breed as often. Therefore, the long beak trait is passed on more frequently. There is no survivorship bias because evolution is performing a study on the birds in any way. Evolution, in this case, is merely a survival of the fittest scenario in which birds that survive better breed more often. Now, separate from evolution, if a person were to examine only the birds who survived, ignoring all those did not, and make a judgement about their ability to survive, that would have survivorship bias because the birds that did not survive are ignored and conclusions of the research are biased. Without the study and conclusions, claiming "bias" requires a person to use two very different definitions of the word and then claim that the two definitions mean exactly the same thing. Evolutionary bias, in this case, means that a certain trait is expressed more often due to fitness to survive. Survivorship bias, in this case, means that the conclusions are being skewed due to incomplete data being examined. The two definitions of "bias" are not related to one another. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 19:44, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- Drawing conclusions about all species based on all surviving species would be a case of survivorship bias. Random person no 362478479 (talk) 17:23, 10 April 2023 (UTC)