Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2021 August 10
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August 10
[edit]The State of Oregon in comparison.
[edit]Only rarely did I (male, german, 60+) visit the United States, and if, then for a few days only. Therefore, I hardly can evaluate Governor Kate Brown's decision (to drop the requirement that high school students prove proficiency in reading, writing or math before graduation) for the state of Oregon, she presides. So I ask your opinion: Compared to the other 49 states, is Oregon considered a backward region? --87.147.185.220 (talk) 21:07, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
- According to [1], the signed bill suspends the graduation test, it does not remove any of the required class credits to graduate. The article quotes some people as saying the testing was not a good measure and was not fair to some groups of students. Whether this makes the state "backwards" or not is a matter of opinion, not suited for the RefDesks. RudolfRed (talk) 21:45, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
- I could ask about Baden-Wuertemberg's reputation and it would be fine wouldn't it? OP, the regions considered "backward" are the non-coastal, non-border states in the South. Oregon's reputation tends toward being a liberal enclave, with lots of lesbians and hippies and hipsters. The Interstate 5 corridor from Eugene to Portland is indeed pretty left-thinking, open-minded and trendy. But there's no hegemony; the numerous rural chuds don't hesitate to yell their side of the story. I think there was another protest/fight between them in Portland a couple days ago. Brown does not have a reputation for being anti-education or backward or anything like that. I think she could stand to be more left-wing, but I'm left-wing, and the governorship doesn't really function as a partisan office in Oregon anyway. Temerarius (talk) 22:47, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
- Portland has a reputation as a left-leaning city. Oregon has a history of pretty virulent ultra-right racist bullshit going back centuries. See [2] and [3]. That kind of politics does not disappear overnight. Among Oregon's five congressional districts, two lean heavily Democratic (the first and third, which cover the Portland metro area), two (the fourth and fifth) are pretty much toss-ups in any given election, and the other (the second) is heavily Republican. Until 1979, Republicans also usually controlled the Governor's office as well. Regarding the article, that the OP cites, it's a bullshit, shock-value article which does not accurately represent the situation. Students still need to demonstrate proficiency, they just don't need to take a specific test (the value of which in determining proficiency is highly suspect, which is why it was dropped). --Jayron32 10:55, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- I'd note that despite the OP's unfortunate language, there's nothing in the original question to suggest they were particularly interested in the politics of the region. Nor stuff like racism etc no matter if these may be a common part of being seen as "backwards". It seems more likely they were under the assumption that it was considered acceptable to graduate without a proficiency in reading, writing or math in Oregon and were wondering if this was normal in the US, or just that Oregon was for some reason unusual in this regard. Nil Einne (talk) 22:55, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- If one can generalize about the Willamette Valley, how divergent is Portland within it? —Tamfang (talk) 01:16, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Portland has a reputation as a left-leaning city. Oregon has a history of pretty virulent ultra-right racist bullshit going back centuries. See [2] and [3]. That kind of politics does not disappear overnight. Among Oregon's five congressional districts, two lean heavily Democratic (the first and third, which cover the Portland metro area), two (the fourth and fifth) are pretty much toss-ups in any given election, and the other (the second) is heavily Republican. Until 1979, Republicans also usually controlled the Governor's office as well. Regarding the article, that the OP cites, it's a bullshit, shock-value article which does not accurately represent the situation. Students still need to demonstrate proficiency, they just don't need to take a specific test (the value of which in determining proficiency is highly suspect, which is why it was dropped). --Jayron32 10:55, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- I could ask about Baden-Wuertemberg's reputation and it would be fine wouldn't it? OP, the regions considered "backward" are the non-coastal, non-border states in the South. Oregon's reputation tends toward being a liberal enclave, with lots of lesbians and hippies and hipsters. The Interstate 5 corridor from Eugene to Portland is indeed pretty left-thinking, open-minded and trendy. But there's no hegemony; the numerous rural chuds don't hesitate to yell their side of the story. I think there was another protest/fight between them in Portland a couple days ago. Brown does not have a reputation for being anti-education or backward or anything like that. I think she could stand to be more left-wing, but I'm left-wing, and the governorship doesn't really function as a partisan office in Oregon anyway. Temerarius (talk) 22:47, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
- The numerous organic farmers and cannabis growers of rural Oregon are probably more like the hippies than the Y'all Qaeda/Vanilla ISIS. A few of the pot growers are probably very right-wing though. A libertarian flavor of right-wing, not a pot is bad flavor. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:56, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- No. Its neighbor to the east, on the other hand ... Clarityfiend (talk) 05:53, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- All US states have state-imposed high-school graduation requirements, but the majority do not require a single exit exam. Of those that have an exit exam (a minority), most allow alternative ways of showing the required proficiency, such as scores on other tests, not all administered at the same time. People in more industrialized regions tend to think of rural areas as backward, but that is not based on some reasonable and objective criterion. --Lambiam 07:44, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- The Daily Mail is an unreliable source for news, there's a tier of British newspapers for different political flavors of the (rich/educated/bright/poseur), one or two middlebrow levels, and the Daily Mail is in the tier for the low IQ. At least one big lowbrow British paper has topless women photos, one page of the paper is just attractive breasts and misogynous text for no reason. I think they can even be 17 or 16 there, doing that in the US might get people imprisoned. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:03, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- A bit behind the times Sagittarian, The Sun stopped topless models in 2015, see Page 3, and the much smaller Daily Star in 2019. 16-18 year-old topless models were banned by law in 2003. Alansplodge (talk) 22:39, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- Did the physical paper version sometimes run stories on topless events as an excuse to show more nipples? I don't remember if it was on the website of the Sun or the Mail or a British tabloid magazine but I saw a story on a traditional African event with lots of photos of topless women. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:44, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Not as far as I know. I don't think the Daily Mail has ever shown topless females, they are quite a bit upmarket from the "red tops" and present prurient news stories with the air of a disapproving aunt. Most criticism of the Mail is over their anti-immigration rants. That said, nudity is generally more acceptable here than in the US, within certain limits, see Naked Attraction for example. In my early youth, National Geographic was the go-to publication for exposed ethnic bodies, it almost made a visit to the dentist's surgery tolerable. Alansplodge (talk) 09:58, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
- There's lower levels lol. I did find some "end of the world newspaper headline" jokes and the Mail headline was "World Ending due to Immigration", Financial Times was "Equity Markets in Turmoil as Expected Global Catastrophe Looms" and Star was "End of the World Tit Parade, Page 7!". (Guardian was "Women Suffer from World End" or something about racist meteor) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:49, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
- Not as far as I know. I don't think the Daily Mail has ever shown topless females, they are quite a bit upmarket from the "red tops" and present prurient news stories with the air of a disapproving aunt. Most criticism of the Mail is over their anti-immigration rants. That said, nudity is generally more acceptable here than in the US, within certain limits, see Naked Attraction for example. In my early youth, National Geographic was the go-to publication for exposed ethnic bodies, it almost made a visit to the dentist's surgery tolerable. Alansplodge (talk) 09:58, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
- Did the physical paper version sometimes run stories on topless events as an excuse to show more nipples? I don't remember if it was on the website of the Sun or the Mail or a British tabloid magazine but I saw a story on a traditional African event with lots of photos of topless women. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:44, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- A bit behind the times Sagittarian, The Sun stopped topless models in 2015, see Page 3, and the much smaller Daily Star in 2019. 16-18 year-old topless models were banned by law in 2003. Alansplodge (talk) 22:39, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- I might characterize Oregon as provincial. They have often done things the way they felt like doing them, and didn't much care what the rest of the country thought about it. Hence the famous border sign, "Welcome to Oregon. Go home." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:20, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- Like being the only state besides NJ to ban pumping your own gas and one of the 4 states that ban sales tax and one of the first to legalize recreational cannabis and prescribing and filling fatal prescriptions to patients dying of painful diseases. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:56, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- Like I said. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:24, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- Like being the only state besides NJ to ban pumping your own gas and one of the 4 states that ban sales tax and one of the first to legalize recreational cannabis and prescribing and filling fatal prescriptions to patients dying of painful diseases. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:56, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
- Not to be confused with State of Origin. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:04, 11 August 2021 (UTC)