Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2018 November 14
| Miscellaneous desk | ||
|---|---|---|
| < November 13 | << Oct | November | Dec >> | November 15 > |
| Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives |
|---|
| The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
November 14
[edit]Popular perceptions of NHS doctors
[edit]There appears to be an opinion in many European countries, and in the UK, that doctors in the UK are less capable than doctor in most of continental Europe. Is there any particular explanation for this? Is it, in some sense, true? If so, why?--Leon (talk) 13:46, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
- UK based, I've not encountered that. In fact, quite the opposite, there's enormous admiration for our doctors. There's a widespread perception that the NHS underperforms due to lack of money and/or inefficiency, so for example, the UK lags behind leading nations in things like cancer survival league tables. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:06, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
- Maybe World Health Organization ranking of health systems in 2000 can provide some insights. EniaNey (talk) 15:05, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
- With full respect to you and the WHO, no league table would be able to unpick perceptions of doctors nor whether said perceptions are fair or not. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:52, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
- I'd at least like to see some references to support the assertion that the OP states. Having worked in the UK NHS for much of my life in a clinical and managerial position I have yet to see any evidence either way that doctors in the UK are any better or worse than doctors in the continental health services. How would that be measured? Richard Avery (talk) 10:48, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
- I do not claim to have, and my assertion is that there is such a perception, not that it is true. I queried a surgeon at a London hospital whom I know personally, and he agreed that it is a common perception, but does not believe that it is well founded, and does not claim to know its origin.--Leon (talk) 13:34, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, but even THAT is an assertion without evidence. You've put a claim on the table (that UK doctors are perceived as inferior) and then assumed that we all accepted that as true, and THEN asked us to explain why it is true. That's a plurium interrogationum error (I.E. the "When did you stop beating your wife" problem), which is what Richard Avery is objecting to: We can't answer the second, included question until the first question is answered. First we need to answer "are UK doctors perceived as inferior" before we can answer why they are; obviously if the first question comes back with "They aren't", it obviates the second question as nonsensical (that is, if you never beat your wife, you can't have ever stopped!). SO, back to the point: You've made an assertion based on two people: you, and one other person you asked. I'm not sure that's evidence enough for us to move forward on the assertion as acceptable. Instead, please provide us with more substantial evidence than "Me and my friend agree on it". DO you have the results of an opinion poll or other similar reliable broad-based research so we can move forward from the assertion, and focus on your main question. --Jayron32 18:54, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
- I suppose this and this is some evidence. I will not lie, I have read nothing that could be called a "reliable" source concerning this opinion, let alone why it might be widespread.--Leon (talk) 22:26, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, but even THAT is an assertion without evidence. You've put a claim on the table (that UK doctors are perceived as inferior) and then assumed that we all accepted that as true, and THEN asked us to explain why it is true. That's a plurium interrogationum error (I.E. the "When did you stop beating your wife" problem), which is what Richard Avery is objecting to: We can't answer the second, included question until the first question is answered. First we need to answer "are UK doctors perceived as inferior" before we can answer why they are; obviously if the first question comes back with "They aren't", it obviates the second question as nonsensical (that is, if you never beat your wife, you can't have ever stopped!). SO, back to the point: You've made an assertion based on two people: you, and one other person you asked. I'm not sure that's evidence enough for us to move forward on the assertion as acceptable. Instead, please provide us with more substantial evidence than "Me and my friend agree on it". DO you have the results of an opinion poll or other similar reliable broad-based research so we can move forward from the assertion, and focus on your main question. --Jayron32 18:54, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
- I do not claim to have, and my assertion is that there is such a perception, not that it is true. I queried a surgeon at a London hospital whom I know personally, and he agreed that it is a common perception, but does not believe that it is well founded, and does not claim to know its origin.--Leon (talk) 13:34, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
- I'd at least like to see some references to support the assertion that the OP states. Having worked in the UK NHS for much of my life in a clinical and managerial position I have yet to see any evidence either way that doctors in the UK are any better or worse than doctors in the continental health services. How would that be measured? Richard Avery (talk) 10:48, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
- With full respect to you and the WHO, no league table would be able to unpick perceptions of doctors nor whether said perceptions are fair or not. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:52, 14 November 2018 (UTC)