Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2018 January 29
| Miscellaneous desk | ||
|---|---|---|
| < January 28 | << Dec | January | Feb >> | Current desk > |
| Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives |
|---|
| The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
January 29
[edit]High School Diploma
[edit]I'm doing high school through Penn Foster and I'll be completed with my entire high school by the time I'm 15. Would I be able to get a job if I'm underage but still have a high school diploma? 66.38.7.16 (talk) 08:15, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
- That would depend on what kind of job you're looking for, and what the rules might be in your jurisdiction. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:22, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
- This might be relevant if the OP lives in Kentucky, but it seems that you will have to continue schooling of some sort until 18 according to this law. Dbfirs 09:24, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
- No, according to this, posessors of a high school diploma are exempt from the compulsory schooling requirement; that is once you have your diploma you're done, even if you are under 18. If you are under 18 and don't have a diploma, you are required to attend school. But if he's already completed his high school diploma, he doesn't have to attend school anymore. Here are the work age requirements for Kentucky. It implies that students cannot work more than 18 hours if they are in school (actually, if "school is in session"), so that's a bit confusing. From here, I think we need to stop giving advice, as this is bordering on legal advice, and instead refer the student to a guidance counselor or other local expert in work laws. --Jayron32 17:15, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
- Hmm... that link seems to disagree with the Kentucky Senate Bill 97 that comes into effect this year. The advice below seems appropriate when the law seem unclear. Dbfirs 22:30, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
Without wanting to push this over the legal advice edge, assuming you mean the 2013 version of Kentuck Senate Bill 97 [1] which seems the only relevant one [2] I don't see a conflict. The summary explicitly says "except as provided in KRS 159.030" and KRS 159.030 is what Jayron32 linked to. If you look at the text, it also requires the exemptions in KRS 159.030 so the summary seems accurate.
Technically Jayron32's comment didn't make it clear it may not be automatic but instead something granted by the board of education or that the technical requirement is "graduate from an accredited or an approved four (4) year high school" rather than having a high school diploma, but reading the link provided by Jayron32 should clarify that [3].
Note that the page you linked earlier https://education.ky.gov/school/Pages/CompAttend.aspx doesn't seem to be working for me at the moment but assuming the Google cache is correct, it does seem to be referring to the bill from the 2013 session and perhaps more importantly mentions compulsory attendance to 18 but if you look to the right, it also includes a link to the KRS 159.030 statute of exemptions. It doesn't otherwise comment on whether there are any exemptions. Given the problems with the page I didn't check, but I wouldn't be surprised if the FAQ or something goes into more detail.
All this does however emphasise why you should speak to someone like the school guidance counselor about it.
- Hmm... that link seems to disagree with the Kentucky Senate Bill 97 that comes into effect this year. The advice below seems appropriate when the law seem unclear. Dbfirs 22:30, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
- No, according to this, posessors of a high school diploma are exempt from the compulsory schooling requirement; that is once you have your diploma you're done, even if you are under 18. If you are under 18 and don't have a diploma, you are required to attend school. But if he's already completed his high school diploma, he doesn't have to attend school anymore. Here are the work age requirements for Kentucky. It implies that students cannot work more than 18 hours if they are in school (actually, if "school is in session"), so that's a bit confusing. From here, I think we need to stop giving advice, as this is bordering on legal advice, and instead refer the student to a guidance counselor or other local expert in work laws. --Jayron32 17:15, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
- Go to your school guidance counselor and ask about the child labor laws and obtaining a work permit. I started working at 15 in NJ. The hours were limited as I was still attending school full time. Local law will vary, but that's part of what guidance counselors are for. μηδείς (talk) 17:18, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
- Just looking at the web site, it looks like Penn Foster should have people to help you with this. -Arch dude (talk) 18:24, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, people called guidance counselors. μηδείς (talk) 05:15, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
- Maybe, or maybe not. Penn Foster appears to be an online-only, for-profit system with multiple curricula leading to multiple degrees and/or certificates. Our OP cannot "go" there except online, and the right folks may be called something else. Furthermore with a complicated setup like that, folks from an entirely different branch of the school(?) may be better equipped to answer the OP's questions. -Arch dude (talk) 22:42, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
- Contact information for Penn Foster is located here. The OP, if they actually wanted to find someone who could help them (as opposed to asking Randos on the internet who know absolutely jack shit about this, but bullshit well) they would contact them there. --Jayron32 12:14, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
- Speaking outside the law, there's the issue that many companies have minimum age hiring policies. Many places, the company itself is not willing to take any responsibility for anyone under 16, even if the gov't doesn't care. Ian.thomson (talk) 23:00, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
- As the parent of a 15-year-old, I can definitely confirm that this is the case. Especially in the situation regarding chain companies like McDonald's or Old Navy, there's often some corporate policy that restricts hiring - you can usually find that information on their websites at or near the same place you can print off the job applications. Smaller, privately-owned, companies may also set their own standard, but it's obviously easier for them to be flexible if they want to. Matt Deres (talk) 15:15, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
- Though rare, some states have age discrimination laws that also ban youth discrimination. Such laws generally prohibit companies from having age-based policies excluding young workers which are more strict than required by law. Depending on the circumstances, it may be worth investigating the laws in your state. Generally, the process would involve filing a complaint with whichever organization oversees employment practices in your state. Dragons flight (talk) 16:31, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
- Laws dealing with minors are fantastically messy. See Minor (law). The issue is that human development is messy, and people do not develop at the same rate; nor do they magically become adults overnight. The law likes nice, hard, easy to enforce limits (over 16, or over 18, or over 21) where they can say "Here's the line you have to cross for this law to come into effect" Real human development doesn't work that way, which is why these laws get all kinds of problems. Are there 14-year olds who are emotionally, intellectually, and physically ready to work in the adult world? Probably. Are there 22-year olds who are absolutely not ready to do so? Also probably. But the law needs to draw lines somewhere, and it does. You'll find, however, that the laws often recognize this sort of gradual development with laws that are graduated by age (like the Kentucky work hours law I cited above, with different rules for different ages regarding hours restrictions). In the U.S., by and large, the law has basically decided that 21-year olds are fully adult for all purposes; while 15 year olds are usually not. For the in-between years, there are different laws at different points (driving, voting, compulsory school attendance). Pair this with the fact that, in the U.S., laws like this are passed by each individual state independent of all the others, and now you have 50 different state definitions of what a legal adult is, on TOP of any federal definitions. --Jayron32 17:36, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
- Though rare, some states have age discrimination laws that also ban youth discrimination. Such laws generally prohibit companies from having age-based policies excluding young workers which are more strict than required by law. Depending on the circumstances, it may be worth investigating the laws in your state. Generally, the process would involve filing a complaint with whichever organization oversees employment practices in your state. Dragons flight (talk) 16:31, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
- As the parent of a 15-year-old, I can definitely confirm that this is the case. Especially in the situation regarding chain companies like McDonald's or Old Navy, there's often some corporate policy that restricts hiring - you can usually find that information on their websites at or near the same place you can print off the job applications. Smaller, privately-owned, companies may also set their own standard, but it's obviously easier for them to be flexible if they want to. Matt Deres (talk) 15:15, 31 January 2018 (UTC)