Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2016 March 5

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March 5

Average width of the Atlantic ocean

What's the average width of the Atlantic Ocean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anyways have a nice day (talk • contribs) 10:15, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't think there is a good way to define the "average width" of an irregular shape. However, Atlantic Ocean gives the area of the Atlantic as "about" 106,400,000 km² if adjacent seas are included, or 82,400,000 km² if they are not. We can consider the approximate centerline of the ocean as running from Iceland to 60°S latitude and somewhere around 20°W longitude. A "straight line" (great circle) path joining those points would be about 14,000 km long, while an S-shaped path more nearly following the centerline would be something like 17,000 km. It therefore seems reasonable to say that a rough estimate of the "average width" would be somewhere between 82,400,000/17,000 = 4,850 km (3,000 miles) and 106,400,000/14,000 = 7,600 km (4,700 miles). --69.159.61.172 (talk) 11:04, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

The total area (106,400,000 sq.km) divided by the vertical extent of the shape would give you the average width. The southern edge of the ocean is defined as being at 60 degrees south - the northern extent is at about 66 degrees north. One degree of latitude is 60 nautical miles, so the vertical extent of the Atlantic is 125x60 nm or 13,890 km. So the average width is 7,660 km...which is right at our previous respondent's lower estimate.

I'm not sure what use this number is though - the "width" is limited by international law at the bottom edges and is kinda arbitrary at the northern edges - so it's not like you're measuring anything "physical" at those extremes - and in the middle, you're hitting arbitrary fractal coastlines and generating all sorts of weird coincidences of inlets and outlets matching up or not. So the result is some mix of physical fact and human decisions. It doesn't seem that knowing the average width is much use to you. SteveBaker (talk) 17:16, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

You just set out one of the same calculation that I did, so it's not surprising you got the same answer. (But I'm not sure why you thought it was lower than the other number, based on a different and equally sensible calculation.) --69.159.61.172 (talk) 21:50, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

rubber boots

Chaps I am at my wits end looking for a pair of wellies to fit me... I am bigger than the average bear and struggling to find a pair of boots.

6'4"

Size 14 UK

EEE fitting

60 cm calfs

Can any of you help me out with shops or web links please? Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.51.253 (talk) 10:43, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I found Welly Warehouse - Wide Fitting Wellies which says... "We pride ourselves in offering wellies to fit everyone - and as yet we've never had to let anyone down! If you need wide fit wellies and can't see what you need, give us a call and we'll be happy to help". That sounds like a challenge to me :-) Alansplodge (talk) 11:39, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

NB: For non-Britons, we're talking about Wellington boots. Alansplodge (talk) 13:00, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

When I can't find footware wide enough for me, I often go up a size in length, which also means they are wider. I like having extra room for my toes, anyway. StuRat (talk) 17:19, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Wonder if Welly Warehouse has thought of opening a branch in British Columbia. At this time of year, the Bigfoots over there must have frozen tootsies and would surly welcome a purveyor of good British made over-sized Wellys. --Aspro (talk) 19:35, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I read the OP's post wrong. I thought he was asking for a pair of willies that would fit him, 6'4. KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (もしもし！) 22:23, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Uber UK

Can you become a uber driver or any other type of taxi driver with a license thats a year old? Hawaan12 (talk) 11:24, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Ask Uber and the appropriate taxi authorities, not us. --Viennese Waltz 11:34, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Uber - Drive seems to be a good starting point. Alansplodge (talk) 14:22, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Uber's website displays different information depending on where your IP address geolocates to. So it's going to be difficult for non-UK Wikipedians to answer your question by searching the Uber website. So, yeah - it would be a good idea to search it yourself. In the US, it says that you have to be over 21 years old, and: "All drivers in the US must provide their license and vehicle documentation before being able to drive with Uber. They’re also required to go through a pre-screening process that includes a review of their motor vehicle records and a search through criminal records at the county, state, and federal levels." - and I would imagine that any issue with only having been driving for a year would come up in that "pre-screening" process. Since signing up is fairly easy - the simplest thing to do is to go through the signup process, and then you'll know.

For regular taxi driving in the UK, there is a list of qualifications HERE - it says that in London, you need to have held a full UK or EU drivers license for 3 years and to be over 21 years old - but elsewhere in the UK, you only need 1 year, and to be over 18 years old. You also need to pass a criminal records check, a medical check, a geographical test and to complete a driving skills assessment. In London, that "Geographical Test" is notoriously hard - it's called The Knowledge and it takes nearly three years to learn enough to stand a chance of passing it! Hopefully, the test is much less stringent elsewhere - but it's a serious consideration.

SteveBaker (talk) 16:45, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Why don't London cabbies use the 3 years to get a college degree and make more money? If they don't want to then what keeps them from going to Manchester or something where it's probably easier? Doing the Knowledge pretty much guarantees that you spent 1/25th of your life supporting yourself by savings while you gain skills that are only good for making money in what is considered a kind of menial job (at least in the US). New York cabbies don't have a notorious knowledge test as far as I know and stereotypically some don't even know much about the geography. They all rely on GPS now, why can't Londoners? Or is this just a bureaucratic way to keep a glut of cabs from forming? New York City does that by auctioning the taxi licenses for insane prices. Before Uber the cab licenses cost $1.32 million though the drivers only have about $34,000/year to pay it with. The only way this could possibly work is to mortgage the medallions and rent the cabs out 24/7. The one-driver allowed licensees have to work for 15 years just to get their money back. And the license is just a metal badge riveted to the hood. It's literally worth its weight in diamonds (smallish low to medium gem quality). I don't know why it took $1.32 million to keep the number of cabs down, geez. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:15, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

College doesn't mean what you think it means in the UK. You mean university. Fgf10 (talk) 10:22, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Forgive me for forgetting about the UK calling it "going to uni". In the US, as you might know, "going to college" includes non-universities (definition: grade 13-14 or 13-16 only) and the colleges aren't as important (and have utilitarian names like "College of Arts" and "College of Sciences" instead of a 1600s chic motif like Trinity, Magdalene, Queen's, Christ.. which sound more like Princeton eating clubs). Also, Cornell College ("the other Cornell") is in Iowa and has nothing to do with Cornell University, Columbia College is the main college of the Columbia University but also several non-unis that have nothing to do with any of the others. America is weird. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:03, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Now you're conflating a couple of rather different things. Some standalone educational institutions call themselves "colleges" rather than "universities", and while the ones called "universities" are more likely to have certain attributes (e.g. a wide range of programs, graduate degrees, and research as a key component of faculty responsibilities), there is no clear set distinction between the two. Frequently an institution will change its name from "college" to "university" just because it sounds more prestigious, without making any real substantive change to its organization. And there is no upper limit to how serious a "college" can be (see for example Dartmouth College).

I did not know that. I always thought a university (at least in the US) had to give post-bachelors degrees. I also am starting to edit too sloppily and was going to write "colleges of universities aren't as important" but never got around to it. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:36, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, I don't actually know of an institution called "university" that doesn't award at least some token graduate degree. But if there is any formal requirement, I am not aware of it.

In any case, "going to college" is the normal term used by anyone attending a post-secondary institution in pursuit of an undergraduate degree, whether the institution is called "college", "university", "institute", or something else. "Going to university" is not unheard-of but sounds a bit off.

A student pursuing an academic graduate degree usually says "in grad school" rather than "in college". A student pursuing a professional degree usually doesn't call it "grad school", which to me strongly suggests academics; normally they'll say "med school" or "law school" or whatever it is. (I'm not sure what you call it if you're pursuing an academic degree in law, such as a Doctor of Juridical Science — these are pretty rare in any case.) --Trovatore (talk) 20:57, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

On the other hand, within an institution, usually one called a "university", there may be subunits called "colleges", generally but not always at an intermediate level between "departments" and the university as a whole (for example, the College of Engineering might comprise the departments of electrical, mechanical, civil, etc engineering). This use of "college" has little to do with the sort of college that is an institution on its own.

(The University of California, San Diego has subunits called "colleges" which are not based so strictly on subject matter. That might be seen as an intermediate case; compare the Claremont Colleges.) --Trovatore (talk) 20:18, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

In the UK, "going to college" means going to a non-university, usually technical or vocational, college, whereas "going to university" means going to a degree-awarding institution, usually called a university, and which may or may not have constituent colleges underneath them. There is a margin of confusion now with some professional colleges converting them into "universities" because they do, technically, award professional or vocational degrees, such as the University of Law (formerly College of Law), which does award the Bachelor of Laws, that has the standing of a bachelor's degree. I don't know whether it would sound odd to most people if a student at the University of Law studying for a professional Bachelor of Laws said that they were "going to university". --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:51, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

The answer to Sagittarian's question is that being a London cabbie can be a very lucrative occupation for those willing to put in the hours and get themselves in the right place at the right time. Taxi fares in London are about double what you would be charged in a provincial town, but customers know that the system is safe, efficient and tightly regulated. Being a London cab driver is considered a respectable skilled trade rather than a menial job. There have been suggestions that "The Knowledge" could be replaced by GPS, but Londoners are proud of their black cabs and any move to deregulate the system might well be politically difficult. This article, London’s black cab drivers face squeeze describes the increased competition from Uber and other minicabs (taxis which you have to book by 'phone rather than hailing in the street) but cabbies guard their privileges jealously and are forever forecasting their own demise - it hasn't happened yet Alansplodge (talk) 15:36, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

You can also study for The Knowledge at any time you like, there are no tutorials to attend, there are no stringent acceptance criteria and you don't need to find £9,000 a year of tuition fees. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:37, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

And attending college/university and becoming a Black Cab driver are not mutually exclusive - it is not rare (although probably not common) for Black Cab drivers to have college/university qualifications as well. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 15:20, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Are there any visualization savants with photographic memories that drive every street in London exactly once and are done? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:03, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't think so. Memorising a map isn't the complete answer, as you can easily get lost with a map. You see the prospective cabbies driving around on mopeds with a clipboard on the handlebars, trying to match the map with the location. Have a look at this map of part of the City (which doesn't even name all of the streets) to see the scale of the problem. Alansplodge (talk) 20:28, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

There is more to it than "just" memorizing the map (as if that weren't a sufficiently daunting task). Cabbies are expected to know when and where the traffic will be heavy, where good sight-seeing can be done by tourists, to recommend restaurants, to plan an efficient route through the maze that is London. GPS can handle some of those things - but not all. Memorizing the "A-Z" (the most commonly used London street map) isn't enough - there are multiple additional 'layers' of information and skills that can't be obtained just from memorizing the map. That said, I've had many cab drivers have to reach for their trusty A-Z once they get outside of central London. SteveBaker (talk) 15:24, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Uber's website doesn't actually tell you what you need, unless you actually go through the application process. DuncanHill (talk) 10:36, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Jerzy Pajackowski Dydynski

This article says he died on 7 December 2005 not 6 December 2005 http://www.scotsman.com/news/obituaries/jerzy-pajaczkowski-1-1113526 Deaths in 2013 (talk) 19:15, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

The BBC says 6 december. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 19:22, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

As does the Daily Telegraph. Tevildo (talk) 19:28, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Are you sure? Deaths in 2013 (talk) 24:53, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

I want to sell my poo

Is there any feasible way to earn money from my own faeces either hypothetically or in reality. How about if I had some way I could sterilize it, bag it and pass it off as fertilizer. Or perhaps some way to extract whatever minerals that may be of some value. The human body is relatively inefficient so there must be something that could be isolated and put to good use (heavy metals, zinc etc) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.51.253 (talk) 20:51, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Another thought. Individuals that might derive some sort of fetish pleasure out of it. Scat? Maybe there's a market place for this as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.51.253 (talk) 20:54, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I suppose your second suggestion is a possibility, though I expect you will need to provide other services too. I have no experience in this field.

I remember the days when the contents of outside loos were spread on the land as fertiliser, but the value would be very small, especially when less unpleasant options are available. Horses are much less efficient in their digestion, hence the use of their excrement for roses. Why don't you try out your product to grow your own vegetables? Dbfirs 21:11, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I'd be more than happy to try that. Unfortunately, the question was whether I could make money out of this venture. So, I don't suppose you would like to try some of my produce. Thankfully I'm practically a vegan, if that helps.82.32.51.253 (talk) 21:20, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I wonder if you want to sell your poo before or after you grow up, 82.32.51.253. Most of us move on from this fascination at a very young age. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:33, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Your point is nonsensical. How can you be certain whether I'm in fact a fully grown adult, or still an adolescent? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.51.253 (talk) 21:52, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Some manufacturers technically do sell human feces for fertilizer. Milorganite is a brand of fertilizer made from sewage sludge from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. One of the criticisms of it, though, is the relatively high heavy metal content because sewage from manufacturing facilities is used as well. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 21:53, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Become a paid donor for fecal transplants. StuRat (talk) 22:19, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Why sell it, when you're giving it away for free. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:48, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

There's little point in transporting it, so use it, and your urine, on your own garden. (Urine is easy, wee in a plastic container and use it as a starter on your compost heap.) "Humanure" as it is known, is best used around fruit bushes and trees, as there is an increased chance of spreading pathogens if you use it on the radishes. I read an article by a Frenchman who made a composting toilet for two euros, one for the bucket and one for the seat, placing it in his shed and filling it with straw. It would be helpful to keep a box of dry earth next to the toilet so as to reduce the pong in the shed. There are more elaborate systems available on the market. Itsmejudith (talk) 00:03, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Night soil explains the health concerns. Matt Deres (talk) 01:10, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

The bottom line seems to be if there was a way of making money from processing human faeces someone would be doing it. Richard Avery (talk) 07:39, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

But someone is doing it, and Bill Gates approves. He knows a thing or two about making money. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 11:36, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

So how is Bill Gates making money here? This is just another vanity project. Essentially he is distilling water and this could work with anything wet. How much would Bill give the OP for, say, a weekly delivery, to address the original question. :-) Richard Avery (talk) 08:07, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

(Going back to normal size text because above posts are part of the serious answer to the question.) This project looks like a valuable one for developing countries where water is at a premium. It is standard practice for sewers, after some kind of treatment, to empty into rivers, and then for the river water to be abstracted and purified as drinking water. It happens on the Thames, for example. And then also for a long time sewage sludge has been collected and dried for sale in agriculture, the main drawback being possible chemical contamination rather than biological treatment. What I would say to the OP is that even if s/he does manage to make high quality compost, the product will be in competition with manure from the local horse riding stables. Check out their prices before you decide to go into business. Itsmejudith (talk) 12:42, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

If you were the first, this might have worked: Artist's Shit.--84.144.80.133 (talk) 14:48, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Going back awhile (185 165 years), there used to be money in dog poo, see The 'Pure' Finders. " from 8d. to 10d. per bucket, and sometimes 1s. and 1s. 2d. for it, according to its quality" ("d." signifies an old penny and "s." a shilling or 12 old pence; a conversion of 1s. 2d. equals about 6 new pence). Alansplodge (talk) 15:45, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps more conveniently, 1 shilling equals 5 new pence, on the nose. DuncanHill (talk) 16:16, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

So in other words times 25 for inflation, times 5 cause pounds used to be really expensive and buckets of shit used to sell for ~7.3 USD. Holy crap. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:42, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

That's about right. Taking into account inflation since 1850 1/2 in 1850 would be worth about $10 today ($9.96, if the various numbers are precisely accurate). Note, however, that 1/2 per bucket is only for _white_ dog poo, which hasn't been available in the UK since about 1985. Can you still get it in the States? Tevildo (talk) 18:10, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

The linked article sage that the average wage for "pure finders" was 7s. 6d. (37.5p) per week, so using your generous conversion and working seven days a week, $7.30 would be your daily wage. Not much of a living really. Alansplodge (talk) 18:21, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

What's so special about white dog poo? And I don't know why you searched for 1850 which is only 165 years ago. 185 years ago it seems to be $8.57. What was the standard bucket? Why not weight? Weight can't be cheated, besides sticking junk in the poo or something. Caveat emptor, mash the turds to expose any pebbles or nails before paying. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 18:51, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

London Labour and the London Poor, from which the article is taken, was published in 1851. According to the article, "The "dry limy-looking sort" fetches the highest price at some yards". And, they did cheat - "this is effected by means of mortar broken away from old walls, and mixed up with the whole mass". Tevildo (talk) 19:08, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Apologies, it should be 165 years; a slip of the keyboard. The dog poo was used in the leather industry, the link I provided has all the detail. Mayhew's book is highly recommended - more Dickensian than Dickens and a glimpse into another, disturbing world. I was particularly touched by the miserable street clown and the hot potato seller, who was annoyed that rich gents used to buy his biggest potatoes just to keep their hands warm and then throw them away. Penguin Classics has a very readable edition. Alansplodge (talk) 19:56, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Oh, and an Imperial bucket is equal to 4 Imperial gallons (18.18 litres). Alansplodge (talk) 20:15, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

This whole thread is a load of shit. Put it under yout Hat--31.109.183.147 (talk) 01:46, 11 March 2016 (UTC)