Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013 November 7

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November 7

Is it acceptable to put meat sauces through a blender?

Hi all. Please help. I have what you might call a spousal dispute. I made this bolognese-type sauce, and it's not thickening up very well. Besides, the chunks of carrot and celery aren't falling apart like I hoped. Now, I'm thinking of putting the sauce through a blender (it's got ground beef in it), but there seem to be people, some of whom I live with, who think that nothing containing meat should ever be sent through a blender. Suggestions? Please address both the food-technical and the moral aspects of the question. This is an important matter. Mindy Dirt (talk) 02:33, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

You can thicken a sauce with cornstarch, flour, powdered potatoes, egg yolks or reducing it (cooking slowly, without boiling). Regarding meat in blenders: this article: [1] explains the dangers of it. 46.37.69.120 (talk) 02:42, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

I very much doubt that the original question relates to industrial meat blenders. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:45, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Indeed. And I don't want to add a thickener--I want a thicker sauce and smaller chunks. In the meantime I've used a masher to try and mash up the chunks of carrots but with very limited success. AndyTheGrump, do you have any thoughts on this matter? Is it OK to blend meat? (I read something today about pink slime--ew.) Mindy Dirt (talk) 02:52, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Honestly, just do it and see what happens. If it turns out well, then you've discovered something you didn't know before. If it doesn't, well, you've also discovered something you didn't know before. --Jayron32 03:23, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Jayron, it's done (see below). Mind you, I'm dealing with a family and if I mess this up there's trouble tomorrow, which is why I thought I'd ask for advice. Maybe I'm not as adventurous as you. Mindy Dirt (talk) 03:29, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

_{Please don't =) Acceptable (talk) 03:07, 7 November 2013 (UTC)}

I can't imagine how putting a sauce through a blender would make it thicker. Putting those vegetables through a blender by themselves and then adding them to the sauce might help. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:20, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Baseball Bugs, putting the sauce through a blender makes it thicker--elementary (the vegetables are in it). The sauce was already mixed and contained ground beef, so there's no taking out and putting back in. I think Acceptable said it best, and I can say that with confidence now, since I just took two cups full and blended them, and then mixed it back in. The sauce now has a perfect consistency. But the carrots and tomatoes, when blended, add a kind of pinkness, and the ground ground beef is kind of greyish. It does not look delicious, but it's done. I don't think I am going to do this again; it's kind of revolting. It feels wrong.

But Wikipedians, I am a bit disappointed that no one wanted to talk about the morality of it. Do you all not care about morals? Mindy Dirt (talk) 03:27, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

There is no morality. Cooking is science and art, not religion or law. If you want to learn how to cook, you need to try new things, be creative, and be willing to fail sometimes. Asking "is this cooking technique proper" is like asking "is this painting proper" Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and the meal's quality is in the pallate of the eater. --Jayron32 15:32, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Which one of the Ten Commandments is under attack? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:46, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

"Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk." (Exodus 23:19, Deuteronomy 14:21). See Kosher. And, of course, any vegetarian/vegan members of the family might obejct to the contamination of a utensil with meat for moral, as opposed to religious, reasons. Tevildo (talk) 02:08, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

I wonder how many Jewish and/or Vegan French chefs are out there. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:21, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Suggestions:

Obviously just get two blenders. A meat one and a dairy one (or a vegan one and a meat one). Rmhermen (talk) 02:22, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

1) Boil it without a lid, on the stove. This should have the dual desired effects of reducing it as the water evaporates, and softening up the veggies so they can then be mashed more effectively.

2) If you do decide to add a thickener, I suggest chia seeds, which are healthier than many of the other options. You do need to let them soak for 15 minutes to absorb the excess liquid.

You could combine these two suggestion and cook it down after adding chia seeds. StuRat (talk) 03:32, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

• What sort of meat are we talking about? Live trolls?

Have you thought about searing the ground meat in a small amount of hot oil to give it a better colour and increasing the flavour before adding it to the vegetables, the Maillard reaction is essential to many dishes. Most ground meat (or 'minced meat' as we say in the UK) is going to look unappetizing if it is only boiled. Richard Avery (talk) 08:15, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

• A few comments for use in the future. First, if you blend meat what you get no longer comes across as meat, it is basically broth. Second, the simplest way to thicken something like this is just to keep boiling it until enough water evaporates. If you don't have time and don't want to use a thickener, a simpler way is to add some white rice -- it takes 15 minutes and it's amazing how much water a little bit of rice will absorb. Third, if you want carrots or potatoes to break down, avoid sauteing them before adding them -- they break down much more quickly if added raw. Looie496 (talk) 17:59, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Ah ha! That means if I want my spuds and carrots to still have their form and not be dissolved into the general slop, I should saute them first. Good tip. Thanks, Looie. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 18:29, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

You also need to use the right varieties. One common mistake (at leats in America; not sure what varieties are availible in the antipodes) is to use the wrong variety for the wrong application. Waxier potatoes like like "red potatoes" are suitible for soups and stews and will "stand up" to very long cooking times. I make a 12-14 hour beef stew and use red potatoes and they hold the firmness just fine. Other varieties like Russets will fall apart after 30-40 minutes of cooking; they're better designed for applications like mashed, baked, or fried potatoes. Make sure you use stewing potatoes and not baking potatoes and they won't disintegrate. Carrots are, well, carrots and I'm not sure I even know of "varieties" with different cooking characteristics, but choosing the correct potato for the correct application is key. --Jayron32 01:57, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes, thanks, I'm aware that different varieties have different uses, but I tend to sort of ignore that when I'm cooking ... and then I wonder what went wrong. Perverseness and stupidity are international characteristics. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 07:16, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

How to re-shape old, leather dress shoes

I have some old leather men's dress shoes that look like the show in this photo [[2]].

I am trying to restore them to a proper, taut shape. How should I go about doing this? Is it safe to soak them in water, and then insert a shoe tree, and leave next to a heater to dry?

Or is it safe to iron the leather with low heat with the shoe tree inside?

Thanks,

Acceptable (talk) 03:06, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

What condition is the leather in? Is it old and cracked? Or does it seem salvageable? Is it possible that some oil made for leather products would help soften it sufficiently to enable reshaping it? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:17, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't dry it next to a heater. Slow is best. Perhaps you can try stuffing them with wet newspaper to mold them into shape. I don't think you want to soak the leather. Mindy Dirt (talk) 03:30, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Well, "soaking" is OK, as long as it's soaked in oil, not water. Then fill it with a shoe form ([3]) or newspapers until it dries out. It may drip oil during this time, so put a plastic bag under it. Also keep away from pets or babies that might lick the oil. StuRat (talk) 03:38, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

But honestly, looking at the pic, those don't look so bad. They look like a comfy old pair of shoes. I'd just use some shoe polish to even up the color. I'd much rather wear those than a brand new pair which hurts my feet. StuRat (talk) 03:44, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

The surface condition of the leather is actually pretty good. If anything, I am pretty competent in polishing the shoes and can take care of the surface. But I've just had no experience in shaping leather shoes and getting the wrinkles/creases out. Acceptable (talk) 03:56, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

It may not be possible to take the wrinkles and creases out, as that is permanent "damage" to the leather. What you can do is stretch them, if they're too small for your feet. If you don't need to do that, then just polish them up and use them as casual shoes. But think of it like a person: Is a middle-aged person with a few wrinkles ugly, or do they have more character ? StuRat (talk) 04:01, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

You can soften the leather without damaging it with neat's foot oil ,saddlesoap or a product called flexalan. Once the leather is soft,stuff the shoes with newspaper to the shape required .Most oil will just weaken leather.You may have to repeat a few times and even wear the shoes to get them to bend to your foot's shape.All these methods will enrich the leather and help restore it.Hotclaws (talk) 19:08, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

What companies are competitors of Asda?

I recently received an unsatisfactory product from Asda. I want to know what alternatives there are.Puntaalpo (talk) 10:00, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

I presume you're in the UK and you're talking about the Asda supermarket chain. If so, you probably don't need me to tell you what the alternatives are. There are other supermarkets (Tesco, Sainsburys, Waitrose etc.) and there are small independent shops. --Viennese Waltz 10:14, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

I've just moved to the country, and yes, I do need you to tell me what the alternatives are. Thanks for the information anyway!Puntaalpo (talk) 11:02, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Asda is one of the "big four" supermarket chains in the UK; the other three are Morrisons, Sainsbury and Tesco. But Asda sells a wide range of products, and your choice of alternative retail sources will depend on what exactly the product is. For household items, for example, you could try John Lewis Partnership; for clothes, there are clothing chains such as Matalan and Marks and Spencer; for electronic goods there is Argos or Maplin (and many more). Gandalf61 (talk) 10:24, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

One unsatisfactory product perhaps shouldn't be a cause to change supermarket chains. I suggest you take it back to the store (and take your receipt too as proof you bought it at Asda) and tell them how it was unsatisfactory - they will probably give you a refund if the product was faulty or damaged. You can also get refunds on (unworn) clothes you just decided you don't like. I will be harder to get a refund if it was a food product and you just didn't like the flavour. The Sale of Goods Act 1979 is the appropriate law that allows you to return stuff that wasn't satisfactory or fit for purpose - something that is sadly missing from the law in many other countries. Astronaut (talk) 13:01, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

African Colonisation

help on this question. Missinaries have been labeled as 'forerunners of African colonisation'. Do you agree to this assertion? give points supporting your answer whether yes or no — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.77.1.252 (talk) 13:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Do your own homework. Thanks ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 13:49, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

You could think about what "colonisation" means, maybe there are different types. In my day, you'd have got a better mark if you spelled "missinaries" correctly (it's "missionaries") but I have no idea what's in vogue with teachers these days. --Dweller (talk) 14:06, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

The answer also depends on what "forerunners" is supposed to mean. There are at least two ways in which the word can be used. Did the arrival of missionaries lead in some causal way to colonization? Or were they merely an earlier instance of contact between Europeans and Africans? If either is true, they might be considered forerunners, depending on what the person asking the question meant. I might ask the person who posed the question what they meant by "forerunners". Another issue is whether missionaries were a major force behind colonization or more incidental to it. If they were 20th on a prioritized list of 20 reasons why colonization occurred, should they be singled out for causing colonization, even though other reasons for colonization were much more important? The question is really so ambiguous that I wouldn't know how to answer it without quizzing whoever posed the question what the point of the question is. Marco polo (talk) 16:56, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Which part of Africa? There were 19th century "colonies" in parts of Africa that had missionaries in the Roman era. The Aksumite Empire was Christian in about 350 AD but the area was an Italian colony after 1889. Doubt you will find any connection between the missionaries and the colonizers. Rmhermen (talk) 17:33, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

It's not just Africa. It was happening in the Americas as well, and any other place the Church was able to get into and not get shot at. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:38, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

The following articles give some interesting information: Chronology of Western colonialism (particularly the papal bull: Aeterni regis), the Catholic Church and the Age of Discovery, and the idea that colonisation was a civilizing mission of benefit to "backwards peoples". Astronaut (talk) 18:56, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Teachers must love us (has there been more obvious homework questions posted?), and remember children no plagiarism, must be so hard to find senatorial staff now for speech material. ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 06:05, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Some politicians use Wikipedia as a research tool and do the reading themselves. Or at least take all the credit for having done so. Ironically, there will come a time when politicians and others will happily acknowledge WP as a source, but without the expectation of being laughed out of the room. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 18:49, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Backstage pass

I've been wondering about this for a few years and just now I think of asking here. How is that people gets backstage passes for concerts? I mean, you have to pay? They give it to you? They come with the ticket? Miss Bono ^{[hello, hello!]} 15:05, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Have you checked Backstage pass? Thanks ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 15:07, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Wao that was super duper fast, Jenova. We have an article on that!? (O_o). OMG! Miss Bono ^{[hello, hello!]} 15:09, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Yep, and the last few lines of the article pretty much answer your question i believe. Thanks ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 15:11, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Oh, thank you very much, Jenova. I guess I will never have one for any u2 show :P. Miss Bono ^{[hello, hello!]} 15:23, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Those bald kids must get them somehow...And they're always first in line at Disneyland too! Thanks ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 15:37, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Oh, my English doesn't get that far with jokes, who are the bald kids? Miss Bono ^{[hello, hello!]} 15:40, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

See Make-A-Wish Foundation. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 15:57, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. Miss Bono ^{[hello, hello!]} 16:05, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) There's several levels of American cultural stuff you'd need to get before getting Jenova's joke. Those "bald kids" refers to children who have cancer and are receiving chemotherapy. Many such children get services from charities like the Make-A-Wish Foundation which gives terminally ill children the opportunity to have once-in-a-lifetime experiences like meeting famous celebrities and getting to go to expensive amusement parks. --Jayron32 16:05, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I get it now, Jayron. Thanks for the explanation. I saw a chapter of South Park where they talked about the "Make-A-Wish Fundation", but I didn't like it. Miss Bono ^{[hello, hello!]} 16:10, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

I watched about half an episode of South Park once, and decided that was about half an episode too much. But it is the case that any kind of satire or topical humor can easily be lost on non-native speakers or those not so familiar with a given country's pop culture. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:11, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

South Park can be excessively crude at times, but is also one of the few sitcoms that can actually make me laugh. For example, there was the episode where the elderly outvoted everyone else and took over the government, leading to removal of all restrictions and elderly drivers, resulting in them driving on lawns, into buildings, etc., until the kids got them to surrender control of the government by cutting off their access to the Old Country Buffet, where all the elderly eat. Compare this to an ad for another sitcom, featuring somebody saying "You can say that again !", followed by the other person repeating what was just said. Since they placed this in the promo, presumably this is as funny as that show ever gets. StuRat (talk) 19:12, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

I love South Park, and oddly I get most of the jokes (at least I spend the whole episode laughing out loud). My favourite character is Cartman. But I still haven't decided whether I liked the episode about Bono or not (O_0). Miss Bono ^{[hello, hello!]} 19:37, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

I had to walk out of Bigger, Longer, Uncut, for a break' I was laughing so hard I was turning blue and everything was getting all tingly like a whip-it. Just the mention of Taco-flavored keeses makes me giggle. South park has the benefit of its immediate topicality, with last month's famous first missed deadline. Sunny in Philly is just as crude and funny, but not as political. Evene before the Tea Party there were South Park conservatives.μηδείς (talk) 02:21, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

μηδείς so you like South Park. That's very interesting. Miss Bono ^{[hello, hello!]} 20:52, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

My favorite TV shows running since 2000 or abouts are South Park, Damages, Boston Legal, Farscape, Battlestar Galactica, Six Feet Under, House, Deadwood, Sunny in Philly, Chapelle's Show, and Breaking Bad. Monk, Justified, Nurse Jackie, Firefly, Dollhouseand True Blood are all good as well.

Reading some contributions here I do start to wonder if Cartman himself posts regularly! ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 06:01, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

honda Z car

the article mentions that the Z went to the "civic"... was it not the "CVCC?" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.162.41.10 (talk) 18:38, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Which article? List of Honda automobiles has no "CVCC". I also have no idea what you mean by "went to" - the Honda Z article doesn't use that phrase and only mentions the Honda Civic a couple of times. Astronaut (talk) 19:11, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

CVCC is a Honda engine technology, which according to that article was first used on the Honda N600, and subsequently on the Civic and other models. The Z used the same EA engine as the N600, so there is a connection there.-gadfium 20:16, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Showing my age - I thought you meant Z Cars. Alansplodge (talk) 08:58, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

It's a good thing he didn't ask about Thunderbirds, then. StuRat (talk) 09:29, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Or Stingrays or Supercars in general! SteveBaker (talk) 15:58, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Blimey! I'd forgotten Supercar. "The glamour of childish days is upon me, my manhood is cast down in the flood of remembrance..." Alansplodge (talk) 00:21, 9 November 2013 (UTC)