Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 September 18

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September 18

Two homosexuals fondling each ohter

If straight men can get turned on by two lesbians fondling each other, why wouldn't the reverse be true?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiweek (talk • contribs)

I think lesbians would think it was funny if two straight men were fondling each other... KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 01:10, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Yep, my girlfriend would most definitely laugh her ass off, but she's bisexual. :p Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 01:12, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Who says it isn't? It depends on just how lesbianic they are so to speak. Just because a girl's a lesbian doesn't mean she is solidly lesbian; she can like dudes a little as well or just one dude. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 00:30, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I think I expressed myself poorly: just imagine a straight woman watching two homo men fondling, would that turn her on?, and just imagine a straight man watching two lesbians. In the latter case the man gets aroused. Wikiweek (talk) 00:35, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

It varies from person to person, some women do get turned on by watching two gay men engaging in sexual activity. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 00:37, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Maybe they exist, but this is not a surefire way for men in clubs to attract a female partner...Wikiweek (talk) 00:39, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Most women would think you're already covered for your date that night, mate. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 00:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

There is a huge fanbase of women for gay-themed TV and movies. Most of the gay male-on-male slash fiction is written by women. The Mark of the Beast (talk) 03:18, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Concur with the above Royor (talk) 10:46, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Male on male slash fiction? μηδείς (talk) 04:51, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

"21 day rule"

Does the state of Virginia still have a 21 day time limit for convicted murderers and other felons to appeal their convictions based on new evidence? Thankyou.Rich (talk) 02:19, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Apparently they did for a long time, but the state legislature overturned the rule (for felonies) in 2004; see this news report. Looie496 (talk) 18:40, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, that's an important lead, although it's not for sure.Rich (talk) 16:27, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

modernization

what is the meaning of modernization? what is the perfect definition for this?which topic should i cover to make a thesis on this topic? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.241.222.202 (talk) 06:13, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to Wikipedia. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know.

We have an article on modernization -- you can start by reading it. Looie496 (talk) 06:59, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

(WP:OR alert) IME, when politicians talk about modernisation, it usually means "changing things in a way that I approve of". AndrewWTaylor (talk) 20:57, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

science reserch

on which topic i can do my research? it should not be costly and tough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.241.222.202 (talk) 06:17, 18 September 2011 (UTC) it may be quantum mechanics or mathematical related topic

This is not the place to ask so open ended questions like this. If you're doing this for a school project then maybe you can ask your instructor for ideas. If you're at a level where you're studying quantum mechanics then you should be able to narrow down a topic area for yourself. If you do that perhaps people at the Science or Mathematics desk can give you ideas, but if you do ask them, please do not repost your previous question, as it's entirely too vague for anyone to give you useful advice. Shadowjams (talk) 06:40, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

We would need to know your grade level and interests to make a recommendation. StuRat (talk) 06:45, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Determining the winning pitcher.

I'm reading the Win–loss record (pitching) article and the rules behind it and am trying to figure out who the winning pitcher would be in a specific scenario. The Mets are playing at the Nationals. The Mets first nine batters are walked, and the Mets "starting" pitcher Alpha is actually replaced by a pinch runner after he walks. The Mets then have a different pitcher in each of the 9 innings that they pitch (Bravo through Juliet) and each throws three strikeouts (for a combined no-hitter :) ) and after the 9 walks the Mets also have their next 27 batters strike out. (Game ends 6-0 Mets) I *think* the way that I'm reading the rules, that since Bravo was the first of nine equal pitchers that Bravo would get the win, but if for example Bravo gave up a walk in the middle of the strikeouts, would Bravo still get the win, or would be considered less effective? If Echo actually went two innings, would that count as more effective? If bravo actually had some Balls thrown in the middle of his strikeouts where Golf actually had his three strikeouts on 9 pitches, would that be considerred equally effective or not?Naraht (talk) 07:17, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, the starting pitcher cannot get the win if he doesn't go five full innings. If he leaves with a lead that his team never relinquishes, but before recording fifteen outs, the official scorer decides to whom to award the win, but it cannot go to the starter. Most often it is awarded to the second pitcher, but that is not required. --Trovatore (talk) 07:45, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

So starter goes 4 2/3 and no one else goes more than an inning and someone other than the starter has to get it?Naraht (talk) 15:25, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Scorer's judgment, yes; and it can't go to the starter, except in the All-Star Game, in which conventionally no one pitches more than a couple of innings. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:14, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

More information at section 10.17 of the official rules.[1] "If two or more relief pitchers were similarly effective, the official scorer should give the presumption to the earlier pitcher as the winning pitcher." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:17, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I read 10.17, and my questions still stand, is "similarly effective" as much of a judgement call as an error?Naraht (talk) 15:25, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

It is very much a judgment call, not a mathematical thing. In your scenario, Bravo is considered a relief pitcher, thus eligible for the win. He would not get the win if either a) he was ineffective in a brief outing - defined as less than an inning, or b) one of his successors was clearly more effective. In my experience it's very rare for official scorers to invoke the second clause, and it's in situations different than your scenario. First, all of your nine pitchers are considered equally effective as they all pitched one full inning without giving up a run (whether they allowed a walk or a hit or anything else is immaterial). Even if one of your pitchers were to go two or more innings, I doubt the official scorer would give him the win. An interesting example is that of the longest save in major league history. On September 3, 2002 [2], Aaron Myette started a game for the Texas Rangers against the Baltimore Orioles and was ejected while facing the first batter in the bottom of the 1st. Todd Van Poppel relieved him and pitched two hitless and scoreless innings, during which the Rangers took the lead, then Joaquin Benoit took over and pitched the last seven innings (incidentally allowing the Orioles' only hit of the game in the 9th inning). Benoit was clearly more effective than Van Poppel, but Van Poppel still got the win because he was the first relief pitcher and pitched effectively for at least an inning. Another interesting case is this game from April 7, 1979 between the Milwaukee Brewers and New York Yankees. Brewers starter Bill Travers left after 4 1/3 innings with a 4-2 lead, thus being ineligible for the win. Jim Slaton replaced him, got out of the 5th inning, then loaded the bases with one out in the 6th. Bob McClure replaced him and got out of the jam, then three more pitchers finished the game (Bill Castro, Jerry Augustine and Reggie Cleveland). The Brewers never relinquished the lead. In this case, the official scorer decided that Slaton had been less effective than McClure and credited the win to the latter. That is really a judgment call; Castro, who succeeded McClure and pitched two innings giving up only one run could also have been an appropriate choice to be the winner. If a similar game were to be played today, Slaton would likely get the win, but in this case the official scorer used his discretion. It's very rare that such a choice among two or more pitchers is possible though; in 999 out of 1000 games, it's very clear who's to be credited with the win (and the loss is charged automatically to the pitcher responsible for the winning run, so there's never any choice there). --Xuxl (talk) 11:50, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

beach ball and lemonade

If I were to half fill for example a beach ball with some fizzy drink, then shake it up, what would happen? 148.197.81.179 (talk) 14:02, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

You acquire a lemonade-flavored automatically inflatable spherical recreational object. -- Obsidi♠n Soul 14:37, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I'd think that shaking it would cause some of the carbonation to come out of solution and increase the gas volume. This would then increase the pressure. Whether that increase in pressure would make it explode or merely force it back into solution, I can't say, as there are too many variables, like the thickness of the plastic. BTW, most lemonade isn't "fizzy". StuRat (talk) 16:50, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps you should go to a different shop if your lemonade is always flat. Generally anything with -ade on the end is fizzy. I guess I'll just have to try it out for myself, then... 148.197.81.179 (talk) 16:52, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Not in the US. Lemonade is often homemade, either from actual lemons (gasp) or that horrid powder. In either case, no carbonation is added. And even if you feel the need to overpay for your lemonade by buying it already prepared, it's still normally uncarbonated here. Minute Maid lemonade, for example. Incidentally, this may be one of the few cases where the US version is healthier, as the combo of sugar and acidity in carbonated beverages is far worse on the teeth. StuRat (talk) 17:29, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

We don't make our lemonade fizzy, nor from real lemons but from calamondin. -- Obsidi♠n Soul 17:38, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

After spending some months in Australia where the lemonade does indeed fizz, I now have to add Sprite to my lemonade as I can no longer drink flat lemonade. Googlemeister (talk) 15:17, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

If it isn't fizzy, surely it is then just lemon juice? Anything else ending in ~ade is fizzy, be in cherryade, strawberryade or orangeade. That is how you tell when you look at different drinks in the shop. 148.197.80.214 (talk) 19:39, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

In the US, it is just lemon juice, sugar and water (or whatever is in that powder stuff if you drink that swill). Same with the other ades as far as I know, though I have not heard of anything other then lemonade and limeade here. Googlemeister (talk) 19:46, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

In the US, other non-fizzy beverages containing fruit juice are likely to be called "drinks", as in "orange drink", or "cocktails", especially if containing a blend of fruit juices. An exception is in the black community, where drinks containing almost no real juice are still called "juice" (a black comedian does a skit on this). Fizzy beverages are called "soda" or "pop", as in "orange soda" or "redpop". StuRat (talk) 20:22, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

In my part of Canada, just to really confuse everyone, a lemonade is flat (lemon juice, water and sugar), soda means soda water only, and drinks like Pepsi and 7-UP are called either pop or soft drinks. I think the Brits call 7-Up lemonade, don't they? And if you order a milkshake in Australia, make sure you ask for one "American style" or you just get milk, and no ice cream. Bielle (talk) 21:03, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Don't know about "American style". I've ordered many thousands of milkshakes in my time, and they've always contained ice cream (as well as milk and flavouring). Maybe it's a Melbourne thing? Or a Bondi tourist trap?!! Charge extra for ice cream! 121.44.69.187 (talk) 00:18, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, 7up and Sprite are quite similar to traditional British (and I suppose Australian) lemonade, the leading UK brand being R. White's Lemonade who had one of the most famous British advertising campaigns ever. It contains "Lemon Juice from Concentrate (2%)" but I've never tried putting it in a beach ball. Perhaps we should refer this question to the poster above who asks "on which topic i can do my research? it should not be costly and tough". Alansplodge (talk) 23:45, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Regarding the Milkshake: You may be thinking of New England and not Australia; in New England, a milkshake has no icecream. If you want ice cream in your milkshake in New England you would order a "Frappe" or a "Cabinet" (in Rhode Island). --Jayron32 00:59, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Must-do in New York?

Next week, I will be in New York City for 5 days. I try to plan in advance what I'm going to do, but I'm having a bit of trouble deciding this time around! I intend to go to the Metropolitan Museum, Guggenheim Museum, World Trade Center Memorial, and on the Staten Island ferry. What other iconic things to do/see/buy/eat is New York especially known for? I'm also interested in things to do at night, as my guidebook seems to concentrate mostly on bars/clubs. --Kateshortforbob _talk 14:03, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

You can get going the other way! Just kidding! :p Well, let's see, I always do this with tourists who come in to Penn Station (I travel back and forth between DC and NYC a lot, so I get to chat with many of the nice ones), you should axe the Staten Island Ferry as it takes you to a crummy and unimportant part of the City.

You should visit the Empire State Building probably, but it's always crowded with tourists. The Museum of Natural History is an absolute must. We also have many smaller museums you would probably like, but it depends on your tastes. We have our gorgeous artificially created Central Park (you can't tell it's artificial unless you find the water valves). You can also walk around my 'hood of the Upper Eastside, which is the best part of town. Go to St. Bart's Church and the massive Cathedral of St. John the Divine as well.

Oh yeah, only go in Yellow cabs. None of that black limo crap, and the rickshaws are expensive. Also be wary of people approaching you with any sort of offer, the usual, they're usual trying to get all your money, etc. Be wary of Italians in SUVs looking for "EWR" as well, I fell for that scam once (A VERY PRICEY SCAM, Damn my bleeding heart!), and I'm a native. ;-;

Another piece of advice. PLEASE be polite and friendly, even when dealing with assholes. The majority of rude people in New York are tourists who have heard about how rude New Yorkers are and feel they need to be rude in return, thus helping to perpetuate the stereotype further (a vicious cycle I tell ya!). Many New Yorkers are quite friendly (outside of Midtown, but I hate Midtown). Anything else you'd like to know? :p Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 14:16, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I recommend the Frick Collection; near the Metropolitan Museum but more cosy, and you won't be frustrated by being unable to see everything in a single visit. Deor (talk) 15:43, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Err, I don't know if I'd call the Frick Collection close to the Met (half a mile, but a nice short walk), but both are in the Upper Eastside. It's a wonderful place to visit though, last of the Upper Eastside mansions, with a very nice collection. They currently have a special collection on display; I think it is a collection of Turkish pieces that were owned by Marie Antoinette. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 15:52, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

To me, anything's that's in walking distance is "close". All things considered, the Frick is my favorite museum of all those I've visited in the USA and Europe, so I thought I'd mention it. Deor (talk) 16:51, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Well, in that case, I recommend walking from the UES down to the World Trade Center Site. That is a very fun walk (but bring some water or you'll get a bit tired). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 16:55, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I'll also note that The Cloisters is also among my favorites, but since it's somewhat specialized, I didn't think it suitable for mentioning to a first-time visitor to the area (unless he or she happens to be particularly interested in medieval art). Deor (talk) 16:51, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Oh my yes, a beautiful monastery. It's very far up on Manhattan Island though if I remember correctly, and ya more for a second visit. Though if the person wants to visit, what would be the best way for them to reach it? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 17:48, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Take the A Train (to 190th Street). Deor (talk) 18:05, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Aren't they harboring the Statue of Liberty somewhere in the vicinity ? Then you could visit the Museum of Modern Art to see how you could become a famous artist by spitting paint on a canvas, or go the the Empire State Building and see if they've fixed all the damage King Kong caused up there. Then broaden your mind on Broadway and your hips in one of the many over-priced, haughty restaurants.StuRat (talk) 16:45, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Oh yeah, forgot about that gift from France, but bring warm clothing (at least two lairs) if you do go to Liberty Island (and adjacent Ellis Island), things can get awfully cold, and it's been rather chilly up in the Northeast lately. MoMA is a very strange museum (though the Guggenheim is stranger; a whole office desk made from earwax is one of their pieces). Of course, if you're into Modern Art, the strangeness from least to greatest is like so in the major museums: Met Modern Art Collection, MoMA, Guggenheim. Oh yeah, and you have the Whitney which is moving somewhere, I forget where though. Oh, and be sure to get a meal at Benihana. It ain't kosher, but damn is it good. Ha, you think we'd fix that when we don't even fix our potholes? No, sir! Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 16:55, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

"Two lairs" ? A summer home and a winter home for a super-villain ? :-) StuRat (talk) 17:00, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

"The Two Liars" is a great Broadway theatre production that you won't want to miss. I could give a synopsis but I don't want to spoil the plot. Bus stop (talk) 17:18, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Oh whoops! Derp, I didn't even notice I'd mispelled that. xD Layers!!!! Wear two layers. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 17:48, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

You mention "the Metropolitan Museum, Guggenheim Museum". I would also add the art galleries in the Chelsea district. Note the hours tend to be Tuesday to Saturday. Here is a list. Another list. (Many such listings are available online.) These are mostly contemporary art galleries. You mention doing things at night. Gallery openings are fun. They tend to happen on Friday or Saturday nights. But you have to be wine and cheese tolerant. There are listings online, such as this, this, this, and this. Bus stop (talk) 16:58, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

That's if you want a more cultured nightlife. You can also just go to a club or bar and get drunk, but you're liable to end up dropping a lot of cash. I wouldn't recommend doing something in NYC that you can't already do at home. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 17:48, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Art gallery openings are not "cultured", by and large. They are unique social gatherings at which you look at the art but with peripheral vision you look at other people. You sip wine and you contemplate the meaning of "culture", but in the final analysis you realize that you and everybody else are not really there for the art but rather to look at one another. Contemporary art also tends not to have the aura of "culture" around it that older art may. One can go to a bar and/or pizza establishment if the wine and cheese regimen didn't function as anticipated. Bus stop (talk) 18:13, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Staten Island Ferry - for the ride, not the destnation, Grand Central - wonderful Beaux Arts building and a short walk to other notable buildings (no one ever notices the neat GE Building, do they?). Museaum of Natural History. Central Park. Little Italy for the .. um ... connected restaurants. Be sure to see the [3] Gurenberg Bible at the NYPL. And the Morgan Library at Mad Ave and 36th St. Lots more to do - and most is not expensive. Collect (talk) 17:19, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Circe Line could be as good as Staten Island Ferry, but I don't really know (need to do more touristy stuff). They have a Gutenberg Bible at the Public Library? That is definitely something to go see then! See Washington HaGada at the Met as well, it's very pretty. Oh yeah, one more note on the Empire State Building. Be sure to go on the SkyRide, it's very fun if it's the same as it was during my childhood. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 17:48, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Some less touristy and free ideas. When I lived there I often enjoyed strolling semi-randomly through the SoHo area, checking out the many small art galleries. Some I'd find boring, others so-so, but there was always a few that blew my mind. The big museums are great, but if you like art it is also fun to check out some brand new art by artists you've never heard of. There's a very strange sound art installation called the "Dream House" in Tribeca. Some people love it, some hate it. I love it and have hung out in there for hours, which can put your brain into a very odd state (and when you leave the whole world sounds different): [4] (they ask for a "donation" fee, if I recall). On a nice day it can be pleasant to walk across the Brooklyn Bridge. On the Brooklyn side, Brooklyn Heights is a nice neighborhood. The "Promenade" has great views of Manhattan. Empire – Fulton Ferry Park, just under the bridge, is nice too. Pfly (talk) 17:45, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Having been to NYC for 5 nights earlier in the year my top highlights of places we went includes the High Line (New York City) - a beautiful park that offers some amazing views of the city/streets amid a nice walk; Chelsea Market - there was a nice set of food shops to potter around and grab something for lunch; Walking down by the riverside in the morning by the Hudson river. ny156uk (talk) 21:42, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Here is another view of the High Line, from a recent issue of Scientific American magazine. Bus stop (talk) 22:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

No trip to NYC would be complete without a wonder through Central Park, one of my favorite places. Also be sure to stop by a deli and pick up a corned beef sandwich on rye. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:16, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Be sure to bring along your cardiologist (to the deli, not to Central Park). Bus stop (talk) 03:51, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

The cardiologist might like Central Park, where he can accompany you on a nice aerobic jog whilst escaping muggers. StuRat (talk) 04:26, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

On the delicatessen thing, there's nothing quite like Katz's Delicatessen on Houston Street.. It's very...traditional? Very Jewish. Rather strange, with turnstiles and tickets. (they call themselves a "true delicatessen") They have great, and sometimes odd food. From what I recall their prosciutto is...well probably some kind of sin. Perhaps best known outside NYC for a scene from When Harry Met Sally... (you know, the fake orgasm scene?) Once I asked for a bagel there and, being out, one of the wait staff ran across the street to get a fresh bagel from another deli. [5] Pfly (talk) 10:17, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

They sell ham and they're "very Jewish"? --Dweller (talk) 10:45, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Does keeping Kosher mean you can't serve ham to goyim ? StuRat (talk) 17:15, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I suppose I don't know whether Katz's is "Jewish" or not. That was one of the things I never quite understood when living in NYC—having come from a place with very little obvious Jewish traditions/culture/etc (suburban Buffalo, NY), I found the many varieties of Jewish culture and people in NYC rather confusing. There are so many different types. Isn't there an important differences between the orthodox black suit and hat wearing Jews who wear their hair with curly bits in front of their ears, vs. the orthodox black suit and hat wearings one who don't? Anyway, it was one of my Jewish friends who took me to Katz's and ordered the prosciutto. In fact, I can only think of a single Jewish friend I've ever known who kept kosher. Pfly (talk) 20:19, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

See Hasidic Judaism for "the orthodox black suit and hat wearing Jews who wear their hair with curly bits in front of their ears". The curly locks in front of the ears are called payot. Our article has lousy pictures, though, of old men with grey beards that blend in with the payot, making them hard to see, so here's a better one: [6]. StuRat (talk) 21:42, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Also, you asked about things to do at night, other than bars/clubs. There's always Broadway. We used to go to TKTS and get fairly cheap tickets for whatever was available—saw a really amazing revival of Kiss Me, Kate that way. And I don't even much like Broadway musicals. I think I've heard that getting decent and fairly cheap tickets via TKTS isn't quite as easy, or cheap as it was in the 90s though. Pfly (talk) 10:23, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you everyone, for all the excellent suggestions and tips! I'm taking copious notes, as there are loads of things I hadn't even thought of - I'll try to make it to as many of them as I can.--Kateshortforbob _talk 09:23, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Can student loans chase me around the world?

Why did I start taking Hindi this fall? It's so I can chase after the jobs that are being outsourced to India. Also, their cost of living seems rather reasonable anyway.

You see, I likely won't get to find a job within the 6 months after I graduate. I would have about $90,000 or so in loans, federal & private. I am even putting off graduation (hence not setting a firm date) just so I can use the federal refunds to pay the private loans off, as the federal loans won't mandate me to payback if my income's too low, and will only on a sliding scale at a ratio to my income.

(Therefore, if I leave the country, my income IN the country is effectively $0, so they likely will not ask me to anyway.)

But if they do, and/or if I still have private loans left, can said student loans still chase me around the world?

Or once I board a flight out of the country, will they not attempt to look for me overseas?

I don't plan to live permanently in the US at this juncture because the country's going to pot, with us too far in national debt, it's best to get out while I still can before there's an epic collapse of some sort. Besides, if the currency of my adopted country gets to appreciate greatly against the dollar due to hyperinflation thereof, it should be a breeze to pay off the loans at that point. --70.179.163.168 (talk) 20:06, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

That sounds like a bad idea from start to finish.

We can't give legal advice, but possible complications include still being liable for US taxes, (Presumably you're going to retain your US citizenship.) and the fact that immigration authorities in your target nation will want to know about your debt status. (Lying to them might be criminal.)

I strongly recommend talking to tax experts and emigration experts before taking any irreversible steps in that direction.

(Also, have you been to India?) APL (talk) 20:19, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

If you are anticipating massive economic collapse in the US, what are you predicting to to happen to your outsourced job? Keep in mind that in a global economy, massive collapse in the US would lead to global instability and likely a decreasing in living standards almost everywhere, India could experience catastrophic backsliding. --Daniel 21:29, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Has it ever occurred to you that your country's economy is collapsing because everyone is escaping their obligations like you are?

Here's a few things to ponder before you decide to set off:

1. Being poor is not a crime. Not having enough money to pay off your loans is not a crime. If you stay in the US without paying loans, you will never go to jail for that. Some very nasty people will send very strongly worded letters to you, but you're under no obligation to read those letters. Just think of them as free stationary. If you ever get a "normal" job, your creditor will sue for wage garnishments and they will take money directly out of your paychecks. But if you freelance for cash-only jobs then there's nothing they can do to you.

2. Having a bad credit is not the end of your life. Heck, most people start building their credit history 18 years too late and everyone seems to be doing fine. You can still open bank accounts, buy houses and cars, as long as you deal purely in cash. Your creditors cannot touch any of your material possessions.

If you still want to take off, then the easiest destination is probably Canada. For starters, getting in is 100% assured if you are an American citizen, as long as you don't have a criminal history (debt is not crime). After you get in you can apply for a work permit and then you can stay and work in Canada legally until one of the above expires. The Canadian credit system is completely unconnected to the American one, so you will appear completely debt-free to Canadian banks, who will then gladly give you credit cards and loans. Unfortunately if your American creditors somehow tracks you down then they can sue you in a Canadian court to ruin your Canadian credit, which puts you back in square one. Anonymous.translator (talk) 21:33, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Anon.Translator's advice here is getting close to legal advice, and besides that it is missing a very important part. Getting into Canada is trivial, but I'm pretty sure getting working papers is significantly harder. Without a green card you're just a tourist. APL (talk) 02:42, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

It's not quite that easy for a US citizen to move to and live in Canada (legally). See [7]. Even to just visit you are supposed to be able to prove you have a job, home, family, etc, "that will take you back to your country" if needed. You also need enough money to pay for your stay ([8]). Of course border security is lax compared to much of the world (though stricter now than back in the 1980s and 90s) and these requirements are not always checked. But I have known people who were turned away at the border because they did not have enough money and had no job. Pfly (talk) 01:13, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

You asked this question several months before. Is there any reason why you need to ask again? Nil Einne (talk) 01:25, 19 September 2011 (UTC)Does this mean your plan to run away to China to escape your student loan has been abandoned? (If so, I guess like your plan to join the Korean air force and those get rich quick schemes....) Bear in mind you probably do want to decide where you're planning to run away to because it may affect the chance of you getting caught. Also if you still have a tendency to make people form 'grudges', consider this is likely to increase the risk people will turn you in. In any case, as with others I would recommend you consult an expert on taxation and migration where you should reveal all such relevant information. And as with others, I would suggest if you haven't already visited India (e.g. to get braces), you may want to do so before proceeding with your scheme. For example, while washlets [9] and toilets with bidets may theoretically be more popular there and I suspect water for washing your lower region will be available in many cases, whether via a hose or a bucket, squat toilets are fairly common, sitting toilets may not always be available. Is a squat toilet okay if water is provided or do you demand a sitting one? Nil Einne (talk) 02:03, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I hate to state the obvious but the reason jobs are being outsourced to India is because the labor market there is flooded and you don't have to pay them much. It doesn't mean it's actually going to be any easier to get a job there, and whatever job you get is going to pay peanuts. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:20, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Also, if you have a disability which is making it difficult for you to find work in the US, don't expect it to be any better in India or China. In fact you should expect it to be far worse. Nil Einne (talk) 15:12, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Dah-dah-DAAH!

Hi, there is a fanfare that goes like Dah-Dah-DAAAH, pitch: mid-low-high, that is played at moments of suspense, revelation, etc., now often humorously as it has become a bit of a cliché. Can you picture the one I mean? Does anyone know where that music originally came from? I'd guess some old Hollywood film, but I'm really not sure... 86.179.4.130 (talk) 20:49, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Is it sad or happy? Fast or slow? Schyler (exquirere bonum ipsum) 21:16, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Guess the OP means this sound http://dundundun.net/ (click the words to hear). Nanonic (talk) 21:21, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

That's it! Unfortunately the site has no more information? So, anyone know where this comes from? 81.159.104.135 (talk) 01:44, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Those sorts of stings became prominent in public consciousness during the Vaudeville and silent movie eras, when pianists and organists would accompany such performances with all manner of musical flourishes. See Silent movie#Live music and sound 69.171.160.78 (talk) 04:19, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Sadly, the WP article Sting (musical phrase) is only a stub, and contains no useful information. APL (talk) 02:55, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm sure I first heard it on the radio in the 1950s (The Goon Show?) and it was certainly taken up by Monty Python. It also seems to be called a "scare chord", and Googling that or "dun dun dun" brings up a number of hits but not much clue to where it was first used.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:33, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

This is an interesting question. I searched a bit but couldn't find anything about that particular musical cliche. But in addition to Vaudeville and the silent movie era it seems a lot of these kind of musical stinger cliches became "codified" in early cartoons during the Golden Age of American animation. While googling I came across a lengthy scholarly paper on the use of similar musical cliches in the early Tom and Jerry cartoons. Not sure about the dun-dun-dun cliche though. Pfly (talk) 10:01, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

You will undoubtedly find the sting you speak of and other stings like it as part of Associated Production Music collections. I can't begin to tell you which composer in particular created it, however.--WaltCip (talk) 16:37, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

An old self-referential favorite is the 1961 comedy record "Stan Freberg Presents the United States of America Volume One: The Early Years A lookout on Columbus' ship yells "Land Ho!", and a dahDAHdahDAH sounds in minor triads. Someone asks "What's that?" and Columbus answers "French horns!". Heard at 6:15 in [10] This has been mentioned in "The danger of music: and other anti-utopian essays" by Richard Tarusk, in a discussion of whether opera characters are "aware" of the music surrounding them. Edison (talk) 19:34, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Chaldean Numerology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmancy According to all of the books on Chaldean Numerology that I have read, X has always been assigned the value 5. This text assigns it the value 6. Is this an error? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.176.203.185 (talk) 23:44, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I am not sure how reliable a source this is, but you may want to give it a read. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 01:16, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Also, the first link in the reference section at the bottom of the article has X as 6. So does the external link at the very bottom of the artcle. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 01:29, 19 September 2011 (UTC)