Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 June 30

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June 30

What businesses focuses on writing articles?

See above. Anyways, I'm thinking Copywriting is one. Any other ideas? --Lenticel ^(talk) 07:43, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Journalism is more about writing articles than copywriting is. Or you could be the gamekeeper, rather than the poacher and opt for Public relations, which can involve a certain amount of article writing. Many academics write articles, as do some clergymen.

In fact, many different careers will call on you to write articles, especially if you're successful, but I've given you options that will probably necessitate article writing from day one. --Dweller (talk) 08:24, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Technical writing may include it (e.g. producing white papers), although you more often write manuals, help files, and other documentation. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:08, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Writing press releases is another profession, as well as being a product and or service reviewer/critique. Unfortunately, writing articles for Wikipedia is not much of a profession. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheGrimme (talk • contribs) 13:24, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, if only Wikiwriting is a business ;).--Lenticel ^(talk) 02:23, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Analysts, consultants, law clerks, government employees in a wide number of capacities... the article or paper or whatever you want to call it is just a medium, one that a whole lot of professions use. --Mr.98 (talk) 16:04, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks guys :) --Lenticel ^(talk) 02:23, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

How many "downtowns" does New York City have in total?

I just came back home from my first trip ever to New York City. In order to get more familiar with the city, I've done some research about it before I went there, while I was there, and now after I came back from my trip. So far, every city that I've been to, both in the U.S and oversees, had only 1 downtown, but I know that there are cities like Washington D.C that don't have any. Apparently, there are cities like New York City that has more than 1 downtown. I learned that there is a downtown Brooklyn. I also learned that there is a downtown Manhattan just like there is a midtown Manhattan and an uptown Manhattan. I also learned that 3 of Queens's neiborhoods that used to be towns before New York City's consolidation (Long Island City, Flushing, and Jamaica) have areas known as "downtown." So in total, how many "downtowns" does New York City have in total? Willminator (talk) 16:22, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

I am unclear about what you are looking for. Do you want the list of all neighborhoods within the Five Boroughs that are known by the specific word "Downtown" or do you want a list of all parts of the city that serve the function of what a "Downtown" is supposed to be for a city? Also, regarding Washington, DC, it most certainly does have a Downtown, both offically and in local usage. Downtown (Washington, D.C.) not only exists on paper, but if you ask a local, they quickly and easily recognize it. --Jayron32 16:29, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Willminator, you may want to read the article on Downtown. It refers to the historical core of a city. Since NYC is a conglomeration of multiple towns it will have several historical cores. However NYC is rare in the fact that the five boroughs are officially a single city. My current city of Phoenix, Arizona while not officially conglomerated like NYC consists of many smaller towns like Chandler, Mesa and Scottsdale. These communities where once towns separated by farmland similar to the way towns like Brooklyn and Queens were. They have since grown together (to form the Metro Phoenix area), but each retains a historic downtown. --Daniel 17:22, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Metro Phoenix is not comparable as Mesa, Scottsdale, etc are separate cities from Phoenix and even if they were separated by farmland would still constitute Metro Phoenix. Rmhermen (talk) 18:05, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

_{Not sure what you mean. I was saying that the Phoenix Metro area is made up of smaller communities like Mesa and Chandler. --Daniel 20:25, 30 June 2011 (UTC)}

A list of all parts of the city that serve the function of what a "Downtown" is supposed to be for a city is what I'm referring to here. On the Humanities section of Wikipedia's Reference Desk, I asked where downtown New York City was since I didn't see any signs or read anything about an official downtown. I read about [downtown Brooklyn] and [downtown Manhattan], and about how there was almost was a downtown Bronx, but did not happen. I wanted to know were was New York City's official downtown. I was told and explained that New York City has multiple centers. Are there 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, etc. of them in total? If a number can't be determined, why not? Willminator (talk) 19:02, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Officially, and in most common usage, there is no "Downtown" as a district of Manhattan, in Manhattan, "Downtown" is a direction, not a location. If I am at 125th street, and traveling to 100th street, I am going Downtown, even if I am not going to a district called Downtown. The area which some people call "Downtown Manhattan" is officially (insofar as any of this is "Official") is called Lower Manhattan, which is the most "Downtown" place you can go in Manhattan (technically, Battery Park is the most "Downtown" place you can go in Manhattan). Now, there is no officialness about what a "Downtown" is, unless a city has a designated neighborhood (or ward, or district, or whatever the local term is) which is called "Downtown", but generally such areas don't automatically have anything which makes them "special" in a legal sense from any other named neighborhood or ward or region. In some cities, there are designated official business districts, which are zoned as commercial centers; that is the municipal authority has decided to put all of the commercial interests in one area, and that area is a sort of "officially designated" downtown, if (and this is a big if) what you mean by a "Downtown" is the part of the city officially zoned for commercial development. The problem is, except for the smallest cities, this is not going to be one tightly clustered region. So you are back to the "Whatever is called Downtown is downtown" definition, regardless of whether this region is the oldest, largest, densest populated, or commercially zoned area of the city. Let's take one possible definition of a "Downtown" as being the oldest part of the city, where it was "founded", if you will. In New York, this would be the area below of Wall Street, which was literally the wall which formed the northern extent of the original settlement of New York. Maybe you want to define the "downtown" as being the place where most people go when they want to shop/go to the restaurant/go to a movie/get a haircut/etc. After all, that's what most people think of when they think of the "downtown" in a small city or town. They think of "Main Street" as being somewhat synonymous with "Downtown" at least in small towns. In New York, there will quite literally be hundreds of these commercial districts; each neighborhood of New York will have its own commercial center where local residents go, so in Flatbush, Brooklyn this might be one region, while in Alphabet City, Manhattan it might be a different area. Then you could define it as the richest commercial hub of the city. Is that the Financial District, Manhattan? There's really lots of ways you could define it for a place like New York City. If you want one good answer, try Lower_Manhattan#Defining_downtown. Except that's going to tell you roughly what I told you here, and I quote "Downtown in the context of Manhattan, and of New York City generally, has different meanings to different people," --Jayron32 19:54, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

By downtown I was referring to the central business district of a city, like downtown Tampa, which is the definition of downtown I'm familiar with because I live in Tampa, and I've been and am familiar with many cities that have downtowns with that definition. As you can tell, I'm an average town guy, though not a small town guy. New York City was my first big American city experience. Anyway, what you are saying is that in the case of New York City, the number of downtowns in that context are subjective, not objective, as in, "some in this city think that this is a central business center for this city, but others think it isn't?" I'm talking in the context of a non-New Yorker because as you said, "Downtown in the context...of New York City...has different meanings to different people," especially with those who live there or in the metropolitan area. Willminator (talk) 22:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

If you say "I am going to downtown New York" people would universally assume you were going to Lower Manhattan, i.e. Manhattan south of 14th Street (Manhattan), which amounts to what New York was prior to the Commissioners' Plan of 1811. If you are in New York (Manhattan and/or The Bronx) and say simply "I am going downtown" people would assume you were heading south, without having specified a specific destination or neighborhood. In the outer burroughs, they probably would assume that the unqualified "I am going downtown" would imply Lower Manhattan as the "Downtown = southbound" doesn't generally apply there, IIRC. There is a Downtown Brooklyn, but I am not certain that, if you were in Brooklyn and said "I am going downtown" people would think you were going there or to Lower Manhattan. --Jayron32 00:12, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

I feel bad asking again because I don't want to be a burden to you or anyone here. Please forgive me. I don't like to bother people with a lot of questions. Anyway, I understand about the whole Manhattan direction thing, but by downtown, I'm referring to the central business district of a city. Ok, so they may or may not refer to central business district in NYC as a downtown, but on the first sentence of the article about Downtown Brooklyn, it says that it "is the third largest central business district in New York City (following Midtown Manhattan and Lower Manhattan)." That goes in line with what I'm asking about because from what I understand, there is at least more than one "central business district" in New York City that would be considered a "downtown" if it was in another city. I assume from the first sentence of the article on downtown Brooklyn that there are probably at least more than 3 "central business districts" in New York City. I was asking about how many of them are in total in the City, but on a previous answer above, you said that there is lots of ways to define it, and I assume you mean that a number of "central business districts" (in reference to the definition of "downtown for any average town) can't be determined in NYC and that people have different opinions about that number. Did I understand you correctly on that or not? That's all I want to know. By the way, in most cities outside of New York City, when you say that you're going downtown, the people of that town will think that you're going to the central business district of that town, except in Orlando, Florida because they might also think that you're going to Downtown Disney, which is not a "central business district" of Orlando. When I say I'm going to downtown Tampa, people there think that I'm going to the central business district of Tampa. Willminator (talk) 02:04, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

(undent) Yes there are at least 3 CBDs for New York, no it isn't very clear how to define "CBD" such that one could accurately count them. This is, in large part, because New York doesn't "work like" other cities. Please bear with me because this is going to get long, but it needs to be explained because I am not sure this makes sense unless you understand more background.

• The political geography in the Northeast in general is quite different from the rest of the U.S. (New England, in particular, is organized VERY differently than other parts of the country) and the sort of urban patterns which work in 95% of the rest of the country don't really apply to the Northeast in particular, and especially New York City.
• In most places, cities grow from a central core, and organicly grow "outward" as they gobble up unincorporated areas around them in a process known as "annexation" (see Municipal annexation in the United States). In most places (probably Tampa as well, though I don't know for certain) it works like this: There's a city founded somewhere. It consists of a small area, usually a few square miles, where businesses and business owners are located. The area outside of that few square miles consists of undeveloped hinterland: farms, forests, stuff like that, and is generally quite undeveloped. Usually, the city itself is "incorporated" as a "municipal corporation", in that the State government grants it certain powers, and a defined territory over which those powers apply, usually the square mile or so that defines the city at its time of incorporation. The area outside of the city limits is usually an unincorporated area, meaning it isn't part of any city. It is just land, which may receive rudimentary services from the county and/or the state, but generally there isn't a high-enough population density in these areas to justify having all of the services that a city does, which is why they are just "unincorporated". Over time, as more people move into the city, the city begins to annex the unincorporated areas around it, growing by annexing an area, settling people there, annexing another area, settling more people there, and so on. Because the process of annexation occured usually during the automobile era, these annexed areas are almost always suburban in character. Rather then setting up individual CBDs in each annexed area, the city is able to concentrate its CBD in one area, which is almost always that original "urban core", since people could drive to get there, it could do this concentration. This results in a city that slowly "grows" like an ameoba. The original core of the city, the part that existed when the city was founded, is almost always what people call the "Downtown" of the city, and is usually where that CBD is located.
• Why did I go through that long explanation? Because the Northeastern U.S. doesn't work that way. Most of the Northeast was fully incorporated by the early 1800's; that is nearly all of the land in the Northeast had been carved up into small municipal corporations such that there was no hinterland around the city, i.e. there's no unincorporated land which the city can annex and settle people in, like happens in most of the country. Instead, there's just a whole lot of little cities all over the place. This was also all done before the automobile, so the idea of having lots of tiny little cities and towns with their own little tiny downtown areas made a lot more sense for those times. Often (though not always) the predominant city in an area is allowed to annex existing cities; but this creates a very different sort of political geography than what I noted above; those existing cities all have their own downtowns, their own residential areas, their own local culture and geography, so the annexed city can't be "molded" into how the annexing city would need it to be without razing it and starting over. So you get these weird situations where there isn't an easy to define CBD, or there are multiple CBDs. Both Boston and New York follow this model, which is very unfamiliar to most of the country.
• This is why you, being from Tampa, which follows the first model I gave, have a hard time making it "work" in your head, because you are expecting the "CBD in the middle, ring of suburbs stretching outward from that" model. All we can say (which is all we've been trying to say all along) is that that model doesn't apply in any meaningful way to New York City, so you can't make it fit. When you ask "What is the CBD of New York" or "What are all of the CBDs of New York" or "How many are there", its not an easily answerable question because the question is based on a model of urban development which completely and totally doesn't apply to New York City in any meaningful way. The idea of CBD is really based on a city built for the automobile, a city with a car culture. It may not surprise you to know that New York City has the lowest rate of automobile ownership in the entire U.S., much less than half of the people in New York own a car, because New York City isn't organized for cars. So the development patterns that are needed to make a city work for cars also don't apply to New York City.

I used to have similar problems with poltical geography, but from the other direction. I come from New England, which is organized on the New England town model. Everywhere is part of a municipal corporation, so the concept of "unincorporated areas" was just weird, I couldn't wrap my head around it. I also couldn't wrap my head around why cities in other parts of the country got so darned big in terms of land area, or how cities could just "annex" areas which formerly weren't part of anywhere. I get it now, after living in the South for the past 10 years, but it takes some getting used to when you move from an area which is built on one kind of political geography to one which is organized completely differently. --Jayron32 03:05, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you --Jayron32. I appreciate your great help to me, a non-New Englander. :) I do still have problems wrapping my head about the whole multiple downtowns, boroughs, and consolidation stuff as a person who is a non-New Englander and a non-New Yorker who grew up most of his life in Florida and still lives in Florida. I'm still doing my own research on all this stuff, and I probably may have to ask more questions in the future here on Wikipedia's Reference Desk. I will probably return to New York City next summer and maybe by then I'll have a better understanding of the city, its functions, and its history. Willminator (talk) 16:41, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Praise

Hi

You don't make it easy to send an email praising you so I ended up here!

Forget youtube twitter my space et al my first port of call is always Wikipedia if I ever need any information.

A simply brilliant site and the second best thing since the invention of the web of course.

Utterly fantastic.I use your site most days and you have never failed me with stuff I wanted to know.

Regards Nick Wilmore

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.98.248 (talk) 22:14, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

If you have a question here, ask, but other than that, I'm glad you like this site. Willminator (talk) 22:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Hello! Thanks for your kind message. If you wanted to thank Wikipedia's creator, you can drop him a line at User talk:Jimbo Wales. But the best kind of thanks would be for you to get involved - come and help us. There must be loads of subjects you can edit about, from your hobbies, to your home town, to your favourite academic subject or sport. You don't need an account to edit Wikipedia, but if you want one, they're free, take about 2 minutes to create and help us to communicate with you. Cheers, --Dweller (talk) 11:14, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia's creator, you can drop him a line at User talk:Jimbo Wales! Goodness, not even GodKing or Founder, but Creator! Choose your weapons and stand back to back... 86.164.27.124 (talk) 13:47, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Jimbo's exact status in Wikipedia's foundation is the subject of <ahem> some controversy. For a brief summary, see History of Wikipedia#Formulation of the concept, the following subsection and Larry Sanger#Origins of Wikipedia. But only if you're bored. --Dweller (talk) 16:10, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Reminds me of I am the Lord God, King and Creator of the Universe* (* terms and conditions apply). -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 21:56, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Bathtub repair

I have a tub that's in good shape generally, but right under the tap, where the water sometimes drips, it's worn almost down to the metal. So, how do I repair that spot ? Some type of epoxy resin ? This is a built-in tub, not one of those free-standing, claw-foot tubs designed to stub your toes and give bugs and mice a nice place to hide. (The house was built in the 1920's, and the tub is probably original, so it's good it held up this long.) StuRat (talk) 23:06, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

You can buy small bottles of bathtub enamel repair paint at a nearby home repair store. The ones I remember (from my time working at one) that they at least sometimes come in bottles that remind me of correction fluid. There should be instructions on how to apply it on the package or bottle. Wabbott9 Tell me about it.... 01:59, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Somehow just "paint" doesn't sound like it would be strong enough to last. What kind of paint is it ? Latex ? StuRat (talk) 05:15, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

No, latex wouldn't last long. I haven't used enamel repair paint, but it is harder than normal epoxy. Dbfirs 07:41, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

I had a bathtub professionally "reglazed" many years ago and it has held up well. The tub was over 50 years old, and had rust stains and deep chips in the porcelein. It was a real eyesore. The first step was to fix the dripping faucet, since the repair material would be removed fairly quickly by the constant impact of water drips. The repairman then removed the overflow plate cover. The deep chips were filled with Bondo, such as is used for car body repairs. He used a razor scraper to scrape off all deposits from the entire surface, sanded it with fine sandpaper to deglaze the surface, scrubbed it, and dried it with hot air. The caulking around the tub was removed. Kraft paper and masking tape were placed over the areas not to be painted. A vent fan was placed in the window, and he used a spray gun to apply 3 or 4 coats of a paint or solvent based coating similar to the tiny bottles they sell for touchup, letting each coat dry. After 24 hours, the drain cover was replaced and the tub was recaulked. It looked like new. After many years, only a couple of spots on the bottom of the tub pealed and revealed the original finish, and were easily touched up. The repairman said that his service was used a lot by property owners seeking to rent apartments, or homeowners wanting to sell a living unit. He guessed it would last 5 or 10 years depending on use and abuse. I've had friends who "reglazed" a tub on their own with fancy epoxy coatings, and they peeled off in strips within a year. The difference is likely the surface prep. It cost in the low hundreds of dollars many years ago, and was a small fraction of the cost of removing and replacing a built-in tub. If a bath is getting major remodeling, I would replace the tub. Getting this one out would have required replacing tile floor and walls. For your instance, the part to consider is getting the dripping tap absolutely fixed, then fill any deep dug-out area with Bondo, and paint over it several coats of the porcelein repair liquid from the home center. Edison (talk) 14:56, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Even the 5-10 years from a professional job is rather disappointing, since the original finish seems to have lasted around 90 years. I assume the reason for Bondo underneath and porcelain repair liquid on top is that the Bondo will bond to the tub better, and the liquid looks better and/or wears better ? StuRat (talk) 20:19, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

If you had a 1/4 inch pit, it would take forever to dry, and the gummy wad might get pulled out when you diligently scrubbed the tub. The original finish lasted 50 years because it is ceramic, and was fired at high temperature (for some tub finishes) in what amounts to a kiln. The repairman helpfully pointed out that if he heated my tub to 1200 degrees F, it would certainly burn down the house. Edison (talk) 01:30, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Despite the comments above, my guess is that it would be cheaper to replace the bath (and perhaps the whole bathroom) with new fittings. Fibreglass baths don't cost much. 92.29.127.122 (talk) 11:38, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

It can't possibly be cheaper now to tear out walls to do all that than to do a spot fix. Perhaps you mean it would be cheaper, per year, assuming the full replacement option last 20 times longer ? StuRat (talk) 20:22, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

If American baths are designed like British baths then it may be cheaper than re-surfacing the bath as described above, as the latter option is very labour-intensive, and does not last long. You could however just buy a small can of enamel paint (do not know what you'd call "enamel paint" in the US), sand down the area under the tap, then apply two or three coats of enamel paint. Even if both are white, you probably won't get an exact match.

Why would you need to "tear down walls" to replace a bath? Modern baths are designed to be shallow enough or slim enough to fit through doors. If the old bath is too large to go through doors then it is sawn into pieces.

In Britain it is customary to get no-obligation quotations from at least three plumbers or builders, and then make your choice. Don't you do that in the US?

Having a nice modern bathroom is going to increase the value of your houise, so you'd probably make a profit on it. 92.28.244.187 (talk) 18:09, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Only if we sold the house, which is not our intention. StuRat (talk) 04:35, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Month and date that Saks Fifth Avenue started selling the Boater diaper cover

I know that the year Saks Fifth Avenue started selling the Boater diaper cover was 1949, but what was the month and date? 98.234.170.202 (talk) 23:11, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

4 headed cabbage

through some freak of nature i have growing in my garden a 4 headed sugarloaf cabbage. has anyone ever had this happen before? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.208.32.19 (talk) 23:51, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes. Alansplodge (talk) 20:31, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

You could probably make more of them by pinching out the growing tip of a young cabbage plant. If you do this to flowers, for example, then they usually put up a few flower stalks rather than just one. 92.28.244.187 (talk) 18:19, 4 July 2011 (UTC)