Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 April 19

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

April 19

Can cough syrup be considered as food?

Strictly technically speaking, can cough syrup (the kind sweetened with sugar) be considered as a food item since it contains sugar and hence, carbohydrates? Acceptable (talk) 00:49, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I suppose, if you really wanted to. Some also contain alcohol, another source of calories. However, it would be well into the junk food category, due to the lack of vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients. StuRat (talk) 00:53, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Strictly technically speaking: no. Items that contain FDA-regulated medications are classified according to the most restricted agent they contain. Many (perhaps even most) medication formulations contain sugar (carbohydrate) of some kind (e.g. binders), yet they are not considered food items. -- Scray (talk) 01:18, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

But those are FDA classification rules, which don't necessarily agree with the normal definition of a food, and certainly don't apply in other nations. StuRat (talk) 01:29, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Exactly - the FDA has no jurisdiction outside the USA. From a nutritional point of view, it could be seen as 'food', in that it contains calories, as StuRat says. Hardly a balanced diet though. Then again, I once knew someone who consumed nothing but Cadbury creme eggs and Pils lager for the best part of a week - the human metabolism is surprisingly adaptable... AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:33, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

But who said anything about consuming nothing but cough syrup? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 09:31, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

From a casual point of view, anything with caloric content can be considered food. FDA and similar organizations in other countries provide stricter, more technical definitions that vary regionally. -- Scray (talk) 02:37, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Heck, even some items with minimal caloric content are considered food. Celery comes to mind. Googlemeister (talk) 15:41, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

The real question is what context you would want to consider it as anything. In some contexts it can be considered "food." In some it cannot. In some it can be considered "something that will leave a big stain on the rug." In others that is not a useful distinction. There are many properties of cough syrup. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:57, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

To the dictionary! Merriam Webster's first definition of food is "material consisting essentially of protein, carbohydrate, and fat used in the body of an organism to sustain growth, repair, and vital processes and to furnish energy; also : such food together with supplementary substances (as minerals, vitamins, and condiments)"[1] This definition is based on composition and physiology. Most of this does not apply to cough syrup.

Some definitions are based on why you consume something, which could make cough syrup food if you ate it as food. The first entry from the Random House Dictionary at Dictionary.com defines food as "any nourishing substance that is eaten, drunk, or otherwise taken into the body to sustain life, provide energy, promote growth, etc."[2] Therefore if you take cough syrup for energy, then you are using it for food. (However the bit about "sustain life" is a bit vague - if you shoved a gun up your backside to later use it to defend yourself, that would be taking something into your body to sustain your life.) --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:54, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

The question is ill-defined. Just because something contains caloric substances doesn't make that thing a "food". My cupboard contains sugar, but I don't consider my cupboard as a food item (despite the high amounts of fibre it would contain...). Matt Deres (talk) 13:29, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

You just haven't been hungry enough... ;-) But seriously, what we define as "food" can vary quite a bit depending on how desperate we are. I don't define rats as food, but plop me in a post-apocalyptic scenario and I might change my mind. --Mr.98 (talk) 15:42, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Stewed rat ? :-) StuRat (talk) 19:33, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Not sure where the OP is coming from with this question, but I do know that you can buy medicine/vitamins with U.S. Government issued Foodstamps. Of course, you can also buy paper products and household cleaning supplies, and those are obviously not considered food. Quinn ^CLOUDY 19:06, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Cough syrup probably counts as food about as much as soda does. Neither one provides much nutrition, but they do provide calories. StuRat (talk) 19:35, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Cab fare between SFO and UC Berkley

I need to know the cab fare between SFO and UC Berkley, in both directions, with any customary tip included. The trip from SFO to UC Berkley will be on a Sunday afternoon. The return trip will be on weekday morning (before the rush hour?). What's the morning rush hour in the area during the week? Thanks in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.185.178.48 (talk) 05:11, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I hope you've considered using BART, which has a station in the airport and one a few blocks from UCB. —Tamfang (talk) 05:28, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

This page suggests a fare of around $75 one-way (Berkley is between Oakland and Richmond). The BART fare is $8.65 one-way and, in heavy traffic, it's at least 15 mins quicker as well. Astronaut (talk) 11:34, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

When I was in the East Bay, we used BayPorter Express when we needed to shuttle between Berkeley and SFO and didn't want to take the BART (for whatever reason). It's $30-40 or so; a lot cheaper than a taxi for essentially the same service. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:46, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Having lived in the Bay Area (and studied at Berkeley), I second the recommendation of BART, even if cost is not a concern. The highways between Berkeley and SFO are the most congested in Northern California and can be subject to delays at almost any hour. Morning rush-hour traffic begins to get heavy between 6:30 and 7:00 in the morning. Sunday afternoons can also have serious traffic congestion, as people head home from weekend shopping trips or weekend homes. So, a taxi could be subject to unpredictable delays, whereas BART is usually pretty much on schedule. Marco polo (talk) 15:39, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

When I lived in Berkeley and Oakland two decades ago, before BART had a station near the airport, I'd take a SamTrans (San Mateo Transit) bus to the former Transbay Terminal (now being replaced) in downtown [extreme northeastern] San Francisco, and then BART or an AC Transit bus to my destination in the East Bay. But were you (for some reason) to do the equivalent today, I doubt very much that you'd save anything in fares, while it would take noticeably longer. On the other hand, you might see more of the Bay Area, and you could, if you chose, see a tiny piece of San Francisco between the two legs of your journey. (Unfortunately, downtown San Francisco, as opposed to her residential neighborhoods, is rather dead before dark on Sundays; Berkeley would be more interesting.) —— Shakescene (talk) 04:59, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

You also have to drag your luggage (lug your draggage?) a long block between Transbay and BART. —Tamfang (talk) 01:05, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

When the F-Berkeley and A-Oakland buses stopped at the Transbay Terminal on Mission Street (rather than on Market Street under which BART runs), that wasn't a problem; but I have no idea what's standing in for the Terminal now that the old one is being (or has been) demolished, nor where that temporary site sits, nor what kind of trans-Bay service AC Transit still offers. And I'm sure that the SamTrans bus stops at a few BART stations along the way. ¶ This may now all be as abstract and remote as when I came to the Bay Area during BART's construction in the mid-1960's and people recalled the old Key System trolleys — and before that, the ferries which used to carry those trolleys across an unbridged Bay. —— Shakescene (talk) 02:21, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Spring Break

When I was in high school I remember having Spring break end on Easter Sunday. Now, my kids have their Spring break a week earlier, plus they get a bonus day off (Good Friday). Is there any consensus among school districts as to which week the students get off? Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 06:49, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Because Easter this year is almost as late as it can be, education authorities in many countries have moved the spring break earlier. The situation is further complicated in the UK by the royal wedding holiday on April 29th. In general, in the UK, the Easter break always includes some days in the week following Easter, but there is no consensus between neighbouring authorities about the dates of school breaks, though occasionally neighbouring authorities will agree on common dates, and the general pattern, though fixed by tradition, is not mandatory, so some schools fix their own dates. Do school districts in the USA have varying dates, and do they insist that these apply to all schools in the district? Dbfirs 07:07, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

In Canada, the spring break typically gets placed at approximately the same time every year, though each school province (and to some extent each board of education) has some independence. It really has nothing to do with anything as Rube Goldberg-esque as when Easter happens to be observed. Matt Deres (talk) 13:34, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

In the U.S. there is a wide variance in Sping Break practices. For colleges and universities, spring break is generally in the first few weeks of March, as it usually falls at the exact midpoint of the spring semester; students typically take midterm exams during the week prior. For public school systems, the practice varies widely from state to state. In the New England states, there are typically two spring-semester breaks, a "February Break" and an "April Break", the April break in New England typically falls much later than typical public school Spring Breaks in other areas; also as New England schools tend to start later and run later in the year (typically Early September - Late June as opposed to August-May for most other parts of the country). Other states or areas may closely follow the college practice, by having Spring Break in march. In some areas, particularly the South, Public school spring break usually coincides with Holy Week (the week before easter) and in the years before strict school/religion seperation the two were synonymous; "Easter Break" was the week immediately before or after Easter in exactly the same way that "Christmas Break" was the week around Christmas and New Years. As courts began to more strictly enforce seperation of religion from schools, the high school spring holiday became more divorced from Easter; and as such tends to fall in the same week in april regardless of when easter occurs. In years when it does not easily coincide with Easter, some school systems will still have a day off for Good Friday, sometimes disguised as an "Optional Teacher Workday" or something like that. --Jayron32 17:27, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Like Jayron, my schools also had two breaks, in February and April. In Alberta, we have reading week in February, and most (though not all) schools get the entire week off. The Monday (which coincides with Presidents' Day in the US) is "Family Day," a stat holiday that I believe was invented for the sole purpose of another long weekend between New Year's and Easter. Thursday and Friday are Teachers' Convention, so the kids get those days off. Therefore, most schools also gave the kids the Tuesday and Wednesday off, because there's no point in a 2-day school week.

I don't know about public schools' Easter breaks, but I was in the Catholic school system, where we always got Good Friday off and then the week following Easter. NEVER the week before, even when Easter was late in the year. This probably has something to do with the fact that we had Holy Thursday mass at school, and therefore had to be at school that week... Cherry Red Toenails (talk) 18:10, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Also note that in many areas, the breaks are staggered in order to allow masses of students from different schools a fighting chance at getting out of town. If every college in the Boston area, for example, had the same schedule, the airport would simply shut down from the excess traffic. Note also that graduations are staggered for the same reason. Any of the major schools can fill up all the hotel rooms on its own just with parents of graduates. By the way, "Good Frday" is a legal holiday in some places. Collect (talk) 17:41, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure about what level of education the OP refers to, but here in Britain there is much effort to ensure neighbouring areas have the same holidays at secondary level (11–16, up to 18 to a great extent as well); this is about getting childcare or holiday from work to care for your children. This isn't the case really though with university level. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 18:04, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Everyone having the same holidays makes getting childcare and time off work more difficult, not easier. I think the reason for trying to make holidays the same is so that siblings in different schools are off at the same time so the whole family can go on holiday together. --Tango (talk) 18:16, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

In addition to what was said above about New England schools, the breaks in the various school districts of the same state will often not coincide with neighboring districts. So, it's possible for two friends who go to different schools in the same state to not have the same week off. Dismas|^(talk) 21:36, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

As a teacher in Australia, currently on holidays, I've been reading this discussion with interest. I'm in the second week of a two and a bit week break that concludes with Easter, ANZAC Day next Monday, then one more day. But, being in the southern hemisphere, there's no way we are going to call this a Spring Break. It's Autumn here. (And it's not Fall either!) HiLo48 (talk) 00:19, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Spring break here in Canada falls earlier now than it did before World War II, if my mother remembered correctly. She said that her spring break fell in April, which allowed kids to help out during planting. (One wonders whether this was the original intent, at least on the Prairies.) By the time I was in school in the 70s it fell in mid-March, which is of course far too early for anything but shovelling snow. It's still in mid-March here in Manitoba. --NellieBly (talk) 18:17, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

In my day it was connected with what the Catholics call Holy Week, and the fact that Easter is a springtime holiday would have played into using that week for planting. Now they often have it at about mid-semester, which takes it away from anything religious, and is also pretty much useless unless you have plans to go to Florida. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:26, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Help ID island

I'm trying to identify an unnamed island on an old map from about 60 years ago. It's a very small island in the Southern Ocean southeast of the South Sandwich Islands and just outside the Weddell Sea. The approximate coordinates are 63°44′S 11°56′W. I tried GeoHack, but the links either require javascript (which I don't have) or they break my crappy 19.2K dialup connection before they finish loading. Could somebody with a high-speed connection take a look at the coordinates and tell me what's there please? Thanks. - Hydroxonium (T•C•V) 12:20, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I tried it but nothing was there, the maps did not get that detailed. Are you sure your coords are correct? You may have to use a pay mapping site to see what is there. Heiro 12:36, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

This is probably the atlas you want, but I can't find anything there either. See also our List of Antarctic and subantarctic islands.--Shantavira|^{feed me}

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not positive of the coordinates as I estimated them using a ruler. It's southeast of 60°00′S 15°00′W, which are the logitude and latitude lines marked on the map I have. So I could be off by a few degrees but it shouldn't be very much. Thanks. - Hydroxonium (T•C•V) 13:27, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Can't see anything there. About how far from 60 S, 15 W? And how sure are you of the South-East direction from that point? Astronaut (talk) 14:02, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

...but Bouvet Island is northwest of 60 S, 15 E if that's any help. Astronaut (talk) 14:08, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

There's nothing there. Many older maps do include sightings of icebergs marked as phantom islands, but the co-ordinates you mention were well-known to be deep sea - it was pretty much on the route of James Clark Ross' 1843 expedition, and the Scottish National Antarctic Expedition. This map indicates that the Scottish expedition took a sounding at approximately that location - could that be what the map is showing? Warofdreams talk 15:11, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I think you might be right. The map is about 60 years old and the "island" is unmarked (it's just a little circle). The "island" is about half way between 60°S and the Antarctic Circle (66°33'S), which would be 63°S. And it's about half way between Montagu Island (26°23'W) and Bouvet Island (3°24′E), which would be about 12°W. That would be 63°00′S 12°00′W, which is very close to the 68°34′S 12°49′W sounding in your link. So you are probably right. Thanks for the help everybody. - Hydroxonium (T•C•V) 15:23, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

It's not the sounding mentioned in the text, which is about 5° south of the point in which you are interested, but rather the one marked on the map at around 62°00′S 12°00′W. Warofdreams talk 15:51, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

It could be a "copyright trap", see Fictitious_entry#Maps. Mapmakers would sometimes include deliberately fake information, usually of an insignificant nature, to catch people copying their maps. Such a small, insignificant island in the middle of nowhere may have been something similar. --Jayron32 17:19, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Yep, the traps are fun to find. I recently found one about "Tupelo Honey" in a topo-map of Northern MS. (Needless to say, there's not really a community named Honey near Tupelo, MS.) But anyway, in this case, based on the age of the map, I think you are most likely looking at a phantom island, or a printing flaw. I've got a pay service with one of the better mapping programs, and I don't see anything there, unless your coords are way off. Quinn ^CLOUDY 18:55, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I think we're all neglecting the obvious conclusion: this must be Fantasy Island --Ludwigs2 19:26, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I've always wondered about that name. What kind of twisted weirdo has fantasies about Tattoo ? :-) StuRat (talk) 23:07, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I'd imagine that his girlfriend did, in a completely wholesome way. Best if you strike that line out of politeness. I'll add that a colleague of mine used to teach an undergrad course on human sexuality, and would bring in guest speakers who had some really outré sexual proclivities. A few of us would take them out for a late lunch after class, which had two results for me: (i) I no longer lose my appetite no matter what anyone says, and (ii) I'm now happy to accept someone's sexuality as normal so long as the object of their amorous desires is both human and alive. --Ludwigs2 07:41, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

There are degrees of weirdness. But you definitely should avoid shaking hands with the ones who do it with dead sheep. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:01, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

^{I'm into sadism, necrophilia and bestiality. Am I flogging a dead horse?}

^{. . .}

^{I'll get me coat. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.111 (talk) 23:28, 21 April 2011 (UTC)}

That last comment wasn't up to snuff. StuRat (talk) 00:23, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Missed US income tax deadline

So, I know it's sort of unbelievable but I spaced the tax filing deadline. I had my statement all prepared on Sunday. Was going to check a few things on Monday before filing and simply forgot. I'm ready to file now. Anyone know what missing the deadline by one day is going to cost me (I mean how the penalty is calculated)?--108.46.109.70 (talk) 18:17, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

What happens if you file your income tax one day late? anonymous6494 18:38, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

according to this page you get a 5% per month penalty on US federal taxes owed, so if you file now it will hurt, but not as bad as if you delay and delay. Penalties on state tax will obviously vary by state, but I've never known a state tax board to be nicer than the IRS (If you can avoid it, never get audited by your state). --Ludwigs2 19:22, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Keep in mind that "owed" means the net amount you owe. I.e. if you're due money back, ordinarily there's no penalty for being a day late. Which is not to say there are no consequences — there are things you can do on a timely return that you can't do on a late one, and sometimes they're things that can save you money in the long run. Also some people are under special restrictions to file on time (say, because they've requested an installment plan in the past). No warranty on any of this; this is just my personal, non-expert understanding. --Trovatore (talk) 00:18, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I added a more useful (sub)title, which assumes that this question concerns the USA. StuRat (talk) 19:26, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm curious about the verb "spaced" in the OP's question. Everything tells me it means "missed", but I've never seen "spaced" used that way before. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 19:51, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

It is presumably related to the term "spaced-out". --Tango (talk) 20:00, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

The more common usage would be "spaced on [the deadline]" or "spaced about [the deadline]". 128.118.84.113 (talk) 20:29, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Correct. It's an American slang term. Spaced (out), as Tango said, is what they meant. Dismas|^(talk) 21:28, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Anyone have a clear etymology here? I generally take it to mean that you're Major Tom and your mind is floating through space rather than being here on Earth. Or, it could be related to space cadet, which presumably comes from Heinlein's seminal young-adult novel of the same name, but I would tend to expect that term to have shown up later (no major figure in Space Cadet being particularly noted for mental disorientation, though the antagonists are weak of character). --Trovatore (talk) 02:34, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

No source but I always took it to be the Major Tom/drug reference. Dismas|^(talk) 02:38, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Someone whose "head is in the clouds" has lost touch with reality, presumably being "spacey" or "spaced out" implies an even greater disconnect. --Jayron32 02:45, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Etymonline traces spaced out to 1965, and "space" as verb to 1968, and spacy to 1971, and speculates that the connection between drugs and spaciness to be tied obliquely to Tom Corbett, Space Cadet, an American television program popular among the 1960's teenagers when they were 1950's preteens. --Jayron32 02:49, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Interesting — I never knew there was a Space Cadet other than Heinlein's. Per the article, the Tom Corbett one was "inspired" by Heinlein's version. Wonder how RAH felt about that. You can't copyright a title, per se, AFAIUI, but you can't generally appropriate someone else's fictional universe either. --Trovatore (talk) 02:55, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

The origin is probably from "spaced out", but the way I've used it is the common way it is used as slang. Not "spaced on" and definitely not "spaced about" (god that sounds bizarre), but just "spaced": "I spaced the deadline"; "I spaced where I left my keys"; Person 1 "Did you remember to bring my sandwich?" Person 2 "Sorry, I spaced it." I live in New York, and have always lived in New York. It is pretty common slang, at least upstate, i.e, north of New York City. In fact, I didn't even realize it was regional until seeing the reaction here which surprised me that in that I would have thought everyone would not be surprised by my use of the term. By the way, somewhat unrelated but Spaced happens to be one of my favorite shows ever.--108.46.109.70 (talk) 06:11, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

P.S. I think it's more common than you guys are making it out to be. Maybe it's not so regional.--108.46.109.70 (talk) 06:25, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure this is a loan word from California surfer lingo ("Gnarly, dude; I spaced!"), and is a reference to blankly staring off into space like a nimnul (which is a loan word from Orkian). In case anyone really cares... --Ludwigs2 07:17, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it is slang, and fairly widespread. What may vary by region is whether it takes a direct object. In defense of "spaced on", how about "I can't believe we spaced on the date!" -- Homer Simpson, e.g. here [3] To my ear, "spaced the date" would sound strange here. One way of looking at it is that "spaced out" does not take a direct object, so 'spaced' doesn't either. SemanticMantis (talk) 17:34, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

The OP says "The origin is probably from "spaced out", but the way I've used it is the common way it is used as slang." However, it's the same thing. To be "spaced out", or to have "spaced", in the shortened form, means to have forgotten to do something that should have been obvious to do, or to have gotten something wrong that seemed easy, or to have been absent-minded or not alert. "I spaced out on that" or "I spaced on that". Same thing. Very common term in my g-g-generation. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:57, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Most enlightening, thanks all. Very common it may be, Bugs, but only in your national neck of the world wide woods, apparently. I've never heard it down here. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 19:55, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Common in the US, yes. So they don't use the term "spaced out" in Australia? Or is it just "spaced" that they don't use this way? Although I like the evolution of that term to connect it with the space bar on the keyboard, which seems fitting. Meanwhile, with all this spacing-out here, I hope the OP has talked to the tax agencies by now. Every day counts. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:00, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh, 'spaced out' is well-known (and well-practised, I might add; half* of my clients seem permanently* to be in that state). 'Spaced' is used here to mean 'located in space', e.g. The trees are spaced two metres apart. (* Hyperbole, but not all that much in some cases.) -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 21:37, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Sure, that makes total sense, and is also used here. It's totally a matter of context. And it does appear that "spaced out on" has evolved into "spaced on" and then into just plain "spaced". The joys of English. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:25, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I grew up and lived in Mississippi for most of my life, and knew exactly what the OP was saying. "Spaced" = "Spaced out" = forgot/got distracted. Very common down here. Quinn ^CLOUDY 02:54, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Remove names from roster of names associated with "694th Radar Squadron"

I would like to remove my name which is listed multiple times due to my attempts to update the roster located at the following link:

http://www.radomes.org/cgi-bin/museum/acwshowroster.cgi?site=Pickstown+AFS,+SD

It will only allow me to "update" names, rather than to "delete" them.

By deleting my names it will permit me to CORRECTLY submit an entry.

Robert M. Sherman

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bsherm129 (talk • contribs) 19:43, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Robert, I have removed your telephone number and email address because making them public on the RD may lead to them being misused. Any response will be posted here. My apologies if i have overstepped the mark. Richard Avery (talk) 19:47, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

If you can't delete the extra copies, perhaps you can blank them out, or put in dashes, or all Z's, or something like that, to make it obvious it's not a name. You may need to contact the web site administrator to request an actual deletion. StuRat (talk) 19:48, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Help finding a poem by Ella Wheeler Wilcox

I read a book about 15 years ago where the author quoted a poem or saying by Ella Wheeler Wilcox. The poem had to do with " There is no....... a determined soul". That is how the poem began and ended. What was the entire poem? I believe it was only three lines. I believe the title of the book was Self-Directed Work TEams, but i'm not sure. I appreciate any help you might shed on this subject. regards, Mike Cacio mcacio@tycoint.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.203.160.100 (talk) 20:45, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

The three lines you remember are a quotation from Ella Wheeler Wilcox's poem "Will". --Antiquary (talk) 21:27, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Further clarification needed. Annoyingly, it seems from this bibliography that Wilcox wrote two poems called "Will". One dates from 1901 and begins "You will be what you will to be"; the other one (your one) dates from 1917. --Antiquary (talk) 21:37, 19 April 2011 (UTC)