Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 April 22

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April 22

Women's stance

This bugs me but I was reading this article and noticed that Kimora Lee Simmons posed her legs in a certain fashion. I've also seen it in other places, such as the poster for the movie Mean Girls. Why do women do this? Is this common? --Blue387 (talk) 01:51, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I think the question you mean to ask is not, "Why do women do this?" but "Why do photographers request this pose?" It isn't something that would be a comfortable way to stand for an ordinary person. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 01:59, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Okey, so why do photographers do this? --Blue387 (talk) 02:06, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Because the photographers think it looks more attractive for the camera? I'm just taking a stab at a guess here, but that answer could easily apply to "Why do photographers use unreasonable amounts of Photoshop?" or "Why do modeling agencies require the models to look anorexic?". Obviously the advertisers think that it sells the product better, regardless of how ugly it looks. And no matter how many people complain, it won't matter as long as the product sells, which in most cases, it usually does. 24.189.90.68 (talk) 03:21, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

(Edit confict with above) It looks like they're essentially resting their weight on one foot and sticking the other one out sideways. I've been known to do that sometimes, just because, and it's not too bad (never in that type of showy, staged manner though). But I think it's relevant that they're in heels, that seems like the only way to get a bend in their knee (of the leg sticking out to the side) like that. FisherQueen's right that it certainly doesn't look terribly comfortable, but to my guy eyes, wearing heels in general (especially ones that high) doesn't look comfortable. I'm not sure that that pose looks a ton less comfortable than any other standing pose in heels. Buddy431 (talk) 03:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I think the reason is to show one leg in profile. Bus stop (talk) 03:26, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

How about product placement? --Blue387 (talk) 05:49, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

One of the basics of posing in drawing and photography is that angling the hips and shoulders creates a more dynamic "action line". The exaggerated pose Kimora's doing there has become such a cliche of fashion photography that it's become a standard "strike-a-pose" pose amongst young women. Also, check out Hip#Sexual_dimorphism_and_cultural_significance, and compare the painting and sculpture there to your examples. FiggyBee (talk) 04:05, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

That pose may be a cliche, but it's a lot more attractive and dynamic than just standing there at attention like you were posing for a group picture for a high school yearbook. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:44, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinking also that it's a posture that would cause the muscles in the leg to tense a bit, which might make the leg a bit more attractive- it's the same principle that makes high heels work. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 10:43, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Contrapposto combined with the ability to "show some leg". (I'd link to the article describing the erotic connotation of the female leg, but the article human leg is oddly silent on the issue, although there is a request (dated 2006) on the Talk Page for a section on it.) -- 174.24.208.192 (talk) 14:58, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for Contrapposto and S Curve, 208.192, I was looking for those articles for my answer. :) FiggyBee (talk) 15:45, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

The basic issue here seems to be one of confident, self-assured feminine sexuality. So... the question is resolved I take it. Vranak (talk)

Why do Americans hate the French? [and vice versa?]

Why do many Americans hate the French? - Vikramkr (talk) 04:49, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

The French have good food, good wine, and civilization. It's jealousy. DuncanHill (talk) 12:31, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

'Many Americans' don't hate the French. Can you give an example of Americans who hate the French? FiggyBee (talk) 04:56, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

There is an unflattering stereotype of the French which is used for comedic effect in American humor. They are often called "cheese eating surrender monkeys. Why? I have no idea. Dismas|^(talk) 05:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

The French and Americans both have highly individualistic societies, and two similar entities have a tendency to clash. Also, individuals filled with pride often spare with others who likewise feel self-important. Therefore, it is easy to dislike someone for this reason (especially when the feeling is mutual), and it likely is heightened when there is such an obvious difference as nationality.--William Saturn (talk) 05:26, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

There is an article on Anti-French sentiment in the United States - not to mention Cheese-eating surrender monkeys and, more seriously, France – United States relations. Ghmyrtle (talk) 05:57, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

The <cheese eating surrender monkeys> insult is derived from the fact that France surrendered in 1940 rather than have their country ravaged with hundreds of thousands of lives lost. What would any other country have done ? Britain escaped through Dunkirk, a massive defeat that is hailed in Britain as a victory. So how do Britain and France in 1940, faced with the might of Nazi Germany, differ ? One had a Channel to cross. The other didn't,Froggie34 (talk) 07:23, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I thought the stereotype was built up from the beliefs that the French love their cheese (which they do, in fairness), that France has a terrible military history (hence the 'French Military Victories' joke) and that they are meant to be very hairy. Cheese, Surrender, Monkeys. 130.88.162.46 (talk) 08:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

France has "a terrible military history"? It has dominated western Europe for about as long as nation states exist. It took all of Europe 20 years to put down Napoleon. The French bore the brunt of WWI (and won), and the US would still bow to Westminster 5 times a day if it hadn't been for Lafayette and the Comte de Grasse. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 08:27, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

130.88 is referring to this page. It is the first result on a google search for "French Military Victories", so if you go to google.com and type "French Military Victories", then "I Feel Lucky" it will take you to this page. I think it is a bit of an exaggeration to say France dominated Western Europe, with the exception of the Napoleonic era, France has suffered a series of pretty rough military defeats (Franco Prussian, WWI, WWII, Indochina and Algeria). TastyCakes (talk) 00:53, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

The Americans are Johnnies-come-lately at pretending to dislike the French. The English have been doing it for centuries. Actually, we grudgingly admire and copy each other, but don't tell anyone. Alansplodge (talk) 08:35, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Monty Python bit about "a man with a tape recorder up his nose", which plays the French national anthem. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:44, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

The UK comedy show "Yes, Minister" has information on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wltv12Hx9Bo --Phil Holmes (talk) 08:53, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

The "cheese eating surrender monkeys" quote comes, I believe, from a Simpsons character with a dodgey Scottish accent. There is a monkey / French connection in the UK, because in the Napoleonic Wars, a French ship sank on the coast at Hartlepool. The only survivor was the ship's pet monkey, whom the local inhabitants allegedly mistook for a Frenchman; the unfortunate beast was put on trial and hanged as a spy. The joke is more on the inhabitants of Hartlepool, who have suffered the nickname of Monkey hangers ever since. Alansplodge (talk) 09:35, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

This is also the reason behind the Hartlepool United mascot, H'Angus the monkey, who, incidentally, is now the mayor. TastyCakes (talk) 01:02, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

France has a tendency to be a difficult ally of the U.S. On the one hand, yes, they helped us out during the Revolutionary War, we helped them out during World War II (and World War I, and Vietnam), and we share a fairly common culture that has deep ties and links. On the other hand, France, unlike the United Kingdom, feels fine to spurn American interests if they do not align with French interests (see the article linked to by Ghmyrtyle for a long discussion of some of these instances). Put another way, the French are fiercely and proudly independent, politically and culturally, and that does not really jibe with the US idea of being the world's policeman and primary provider of culture and civilization. The French do not think that being bailed out of a war (or two) makes them need to endlessly cow-tow to an idea of US supremacy. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:06, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

They're probably also a bit annoyed that English has fairly much displaced French as the "international" language. Then there's the cultural difference, which someone once described to me as, "The only thing the French know how to organize is a party." Also, this quote, allegedly from Mark Twain, as per Hal Holbrook's one-man show about Twain, in reference to some sort of outrageous behavior: "That is un-English! It is un-American! It is French!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→

The French have set values and strived for them. Americans have not been able to compete in this game. Americans are resentful of the French for this. This has traditionally applied to food and art. Bus stop (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

This illustration[1] not too long after 9/11 satirizes the American attitude toward the French. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:32, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

There is an element of class hatred involved. As in most societies, lower and middle-class Americans resent upper-class Americans. Since the upper-class Americans are often associated with the French, from drinking French wine, eating at French restaurants, going to Paris, buying French art, perfume and fashions, etc., much of this resentment transfers to the French. StuRat (talk) 12:40, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

That might be a carryover from a millennium ago, when the Norman French ruled England, and spoke French of course, while the peasants spoke some version of English. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:45, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I think there's an element of puritanism involved. Puritanism was a major influence in American society, while the French seem happily free from its influence. Americans have the uneasy feeling that the French are enjoying themselves. DuncanHill (talk) 12:42, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Part of the culture clash. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:45, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

And then there's the French reputation for not bathing any more often than absolutely necessary. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:48, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

The tricky part here is the encompassing term "The French". I happen to admire France (the country) because it's mostly very beautiful, it has great culture, it has good food, fantastic wines, superb high speed trains, cheap cost-of-living coupled with high standards-of-living - and has gone a long way to fixing their contribution to to greenhouse gas emissions. There is much to love. I also like individual french people (I'm married to one!) and I've never met an individual French person whom I have not hit it off with. My problem is with medium-to-large sized groups of French people - who somehow manage to be obnoxious, arrogant and generally awful to deal with. My wife comes from a gigantic family (she has 13 brothers & sisters a dozen in-laws and maybe 50 nieces & nephews, etc) - and I like every one of her relatives. But when they get together in a big group...urgh! I can't explain why that is. SteveBaker (talk) 14:45, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

It is truly amazing how much crap can be spouted when (not you Steve!) (presumed)xenophobia rears its head. I thought 'Americans' hated everybody. This of course is a personal viewpoint - as was the OP's question. The corollary of course is that many, many nations dislike 'Americans'. And all this started from a line from the Simpsons spoken by a Scotsman. But hey, lets continue and see if we can work this whole thing up to an international incident. I doubt that will happen though because the French (whoever that refers to)really don't give a flying f,f,f,..fig about 'Americans' (whoever that refers to). Stereotype doesn't get close, but hang on, wasn't France the first country to recognise American Independance?? there's gratitude for you!! Richard Avery (talk) 17:56, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

1. They don't, not really.
2. If there is any basis to this perception, it's because the French are regarded as snooty, arrogant, and aloof. It's kind of the bane of the stereotypical flag-waving beer-guzzling patriot. They don't want to live in a world where anyone would regard them as crass and depraved. Vranak (talk)

For a contrary point of view, there's the line (attributed to Thomas Gold Appleton by Oliver Wendell Holmes) "Good Americans, when they die, go to Paris." I'm hoping that this may turn out to be correct. Deor (talk) 19:45, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I think it is only natural that there should be animosity between the Americans and the French. The Americans let the air out of the French hot air balloon. And the French are proof that there is such a thing as "quality," Freedom Fries notwithstanding. Bus stop (talk) 19:53, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

To which Oscar Wilde quipped: ... and when bad Americans die, they go to ... America. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 21:52, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I believe this arose because the French would not join in with other European countries in invading Iraq - or was it Kuwait? I also have the impression that Americans see Europeans as being culturally superior (better food, dress sense, architecture, etc), and due to cognitive dissonance this becomes dislike. 78.149.175.91 (talk) 19:58, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Beware of generalizations. I have seen many a French restaurant in America, but the number of British restaurants is rather small. There's just not that much of a market for kidney pie. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:39, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

"The <cheese eating surrender monkeys> insult is derived from the fact that France surrendered in 1940 rather than have their country ravaged with hundreds of thousands of lives lost. What would any other country have done?" Poland didn't surrender. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:45, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Reminds me of a quip about the Israel 6-day war in 1967 or so: "As soon as France heard there was a war somewhere, they surrendered." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:58, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Maybe Poland should have surrendered. France certainly came out better in the end. Maybe Poland was also used to being fucked over by their neighbours no matter what they did. Adam Bishop (talk) 00:38, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Poland did surrender, and quite quickly after the German/Russian invasion began, the same as France/Belgium/Holland. Their cavalry fought bravely, but they lacked a modern air force and armored forces and tried to defend a very wide front against better equipped forces. Edison (talk) 05:44, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Not according to our articles, History of Poland (1939–1945) and Polish government-in-exile. Polish forces retreated to Romania and Hungry, and set up a government in exile in France. When France surrendered, the Polish government relocated to London. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:41, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I think that had more to do with geographical proximity to the USSR than anything. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:11, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Before the invasion of Iraq, while the US was trying to get the UN Security Council support for another resolution, I heard more than one American express the view that the French refusal to support the US, demonstrated a "lack of gratitude" considering the USA "had to come and save your asses in WWII". Astronaut (talk) 01:02, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

There were people in the USA who thought that Hitler running Europe was the lesser of two evils, compared with Stalin potentially running Europe if Hitler were defeated. In other words, there was a fair amount of opposition to even lifting a finger to help Europe. Maybe the American isolationists were right? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:43, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Thomas Edison made only one commercial recording. It was called "Lest we forget" and was about World War 1, in which he highly praised the bravery of the French and other Europeans who gave many lives fighting the Germans and their allies before the U.S. even entered the war. In World War 2, the French failed to live up to commitments to Poland after the 1939 German invasion of Poland by failing to attack Germany promptly with at least air strikes against industrial areas near France. This torpitude surprised even the Germans. The speedy 1940 defeat of the British, French and Belgians was pretty appalling, with the Dunkirk evacuation being claimed as a "victory" but the British still doing a better job than the French in fighting the German invaders. The popular image of France in early WW2 is the famous movie/photo (which I recall from my high school history book) of the "Frenchman crying." (Apparently the man was overcome with passion watching military colors being expatriated to colonies in 1940 before the surrender. It was likely in a port city rather than Paris, as shown by the motion picture footage of colors embarking).They naively believed that the Maginot Line would stop a German attack, while the wily Germans attacked through Belgium as in the first World War. The Vichy France government then became enthusiastic collaborators with the Nazis. Post WW2, along with abusing their colonials in Algeria, and being defeated soundly in Vietnam in the 1950's while trying to reassert colonial domination, the French did not show much gravitas in maintaining world peace since World War 2 compared to many other countries. Their Korean War dead totalled 300 compared to 36,000 U.S. and 1100 U.K. The French did not strongly support NATO. They have a reputation in the U.S. of being abusive in general toward tourists, such as pretending not to be able to understand the attempts of foreigners to speak French, however fluent the foreigner may be. But they make wonderful wine and have fine culture. Students of U.S. history will always be grateful to France for the military assistance in the American Revolution, which might have ended differently otherwise. This led to Americans being proud to go to France in WW1, as in the saying "Lafayette, we are here." Edison (talk) 05:18, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Is not the Statue of Liberty a gift from the people of France? Did not America and Britan on D-day rescue France? And was not French troups in first to Paris to rescue Paris, while the other Allies remained behind, proving a point? Do you blame the French for not going to war over Iraq? After all they were proved right! Viva la France, Viva Libertie! Viva la Reason! The French do expect you to try to speak their language when you come to France and are appreciative when you try. Do remember that many of our fore-fathers lost their lives in the fields of France.

MacOfJesus (talk) 11:36, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I've never seen that weeping Parisen photo before, but I'm curious if Edison has some source for thinking the image description (the same as that held at the National Archives) is incorrect? Astronaut (talk) 12:20, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

The views expressed above are just the kind of thing that reinforce the French dislike of the US. For example, simply saying "The Vichy France government then became enthusiastic collaborators with the Nazis", ignores the contribution of the French Resistance who, without the support of a military-industrial complex, fought and died for four long years before the Normandy landings in 1944; and the contrast in Korean war dead looks dramatic, but while the US lost 7.6% of 480,000 troops deployed, the French lost 8.7% of 3421 troops deployed. Astronaut (talk) 12:20, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

So why did they only send 3421? Edison (talk) 00:34, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Maybe French military commitments elsewhere, but still wanting to demonstrate they supported the UN forces militarily as well as simply voting for UNSC Resolution 82 and Resolution 83? Astronaut (talk) 19:36, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

On why the French hate the Americans, one reason they dislike the British is for saving them. At least that's how it looks to someone in Britain. They're disappointed with having thousands of soldiers use their country to fight each other. - Jarry1250 ^{[Humorous? Discuss.]} 16:56, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the photo of the "weeping Frenchman", this came up here at least once before. There's a strong possibility that the the photo was staged, made for an American propaganda film. We were never able to get to the bottom of it. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:45, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

For history of discussions about the context of the photo/newsreel, see [2]. For the actual footage, see [3] at 54 minutes and 40 seconds in. The "weeping Frenchman" photo was from a newsreel, which was pretty clearly filmed in France, not a Hollywood staging. It showed French troops in a port city apparently carrying their military standards down toward the ships waiting to carry them to overseas colonies. This may have been Marseilles in 1940 (or 1941?). The man wept, some in the crowd clapped. This fits with the "retiring the colors" scenario. Maybe the man was a veteran of WW1. If it were Nazis entering Paris, as is sometimes claimed, some of the "clappers' would have been waving Swastikas or giving Hitler salutes, and the carrying of the French military colors would have made less sense. The French resistance fighting Nazis does not mean that the Vichy government and the police system were not enthusiastic collaborators, [4] Petain's government embraced collaboration from 1940. The claims of French not to be able to understand a word from tourists speaking French is from persons who were fluent in French and visited there. (You have a recognizable accent, so I will roll my eyes and pretend I cannot understand what you are saying). [5]. In contrast, natives of Hispanic countries, China or Japan are said to be quite appreciative of efforts of visitors to speak their language. There may be some understandable resentment on the part of the French that English has displaced French to such an extent as an international language, with the decline of French colonialism and international military and political power. Edison (talk) 00:34, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Regarding French accents and culture, I'm under the impression that there is a great deal of condescension from French people regarding the Quebec accent, and perhaps the Quebecois in general, which I find quite sad... Or maybe this has been overblown? TastyCakes (talk) 01:32, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

As for the French waiter pretending not to understand foreigner's attempts at French, I quickly found that to be at least partly true if you started in English and only resorted to fratured French when they claimed they didn't speak English. However, if you don't ask "Parlez vous Anglais?" and instead try to start off with what you want to say in French, you get a much better response (and in perfect English too). Astronaut (talk) 20:01, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, I found that my pronunciation of "Bonjour!" was bad enough that they immediately started speaking English to me upon hearing it. I usually couldn't get as far as "Parlez vous Anglais?" -- Coneslayer (talk) 14:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Eurostar Not Working?

With the recent fun and games with people being stranded in France because Europe had a flying ban (due to the volcano in Iceland), I have wondered why people had to hitch rides (and spend thousands of £££) on Royal Navy warships just to get back to the UK. What happened to the Eurostar? --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 17:01, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Strict answer - I don't personally know. However, it normally runs fairly full, and so would not be able to provide enough extra capacity to carry all those stranded. Many were also stranded in countries that the Eurostar does not run to. --Phil Holmes (talk) 17:06, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I understand that people were all over the world at the time. I was specifically referring to people in France, and the many people who made the journey to the north coast - not only for the warships, but also for the failed attempt by a BBC reporter to evacuate people - likening it to the Dunkirk evacuations at the start of WW2 (completely inappropriate and over the top analogy, IMHO). I guess it may have been 'full', but would this not be an opportunity to put more services on, considering they had at least a week to organize this? Or maybe some people did get on the Eurostar, and the news agencies don't think those stories are interesting enough? --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 17:12, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I can't source any links at the moment but Eurostar has been running extra trains to help with the backlog of returning travellers. Of course you won't have read about it because it is not a really newsy story. To get some serious Brownie points you need to own a large cruise ship and go and pick up a few of the stragglers.[6] But, hey, it's history already!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.186.107 (talk) 17:40, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Dominic Burn from the Chris Moyles Show got back from Paris via the Eurostar, if you've been listening to it... Chevymontecarlo. 18:58, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

If you search Google News for "eurostar" you'll find a bunch of stories about increased Eurostar ridership and bookings. This Telegraph story says they've handled 50,000 more trips, with their demand pricing structure pushing the fairs up pretty high. This Eurostar press release says they're capping 30,000 seats at a fairly sensible price, and that they've run an extra 33 trains. Really they only have so many spare trains (and you can't run regular trains through the chunnel). Albion was something of a one-off: she was really there to collect British soldiers returning from Afghanistan - a field squadron of the RAF Regiment, 33 Medical Regiment (a field hospital unit), and elements of the Royal Anglian Regiment; that left a bunch of spaces on Albion, so I guess they decided to fill those with needy civvies (I believe they were selecting those who had an outstanding need to return, such as the elderly and people with kids) rather than sail with a third of the space free. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 19:15, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Ah, excellent, cheers. So all the news stories on TV with teary eyed Brits stranded in France, the Royal Navy coming along to save the day, and people lacking any sort of individual ingenuity or common sense to get on a train were just news-hype stories, then, and in fact, people were using their nuggets. Cheers! That's what I wanted to know. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 09:05, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I was stuck in Amsterdam, trying to get to a wedding in Edinburgh, and we'd hoped to get the train, but it was booked solid for several days. We took a bus that crossed at Calais on Friday instead. Calais was busy, but it didn't look like it was more than a one or two ferry wait for cars when we got on (we got the first ferry but I don't know if the bus had a booking or something). I think most people that could get themselves to a ferry landing in France, the Netherlands or Belgium could get back to Britain relatively quickly, but I think the Spanish ferries may have been more backed up... TastyCakes (talk) 01:44, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

internal links for article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasana_M._Sekou

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Sorry, you have reached the Wikipedia Reference Desk. We answer questions here. We don't do your work for you. You know, Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anybody, even you, can edit. Comet Tuttle (talk) 00:26, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Deodarant

What is in a deodarant can? What sorts of things can be found in them? I don't understand what the stuff is on the ingredients list, so if someone could simplify it it would be much appreciated. Chevymontecarlo. 19:03, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

A brief skim of the back of one here suggests that it's essentially broken down into propellants (gases which will expand and carry the rest as they leave the canister), dessicants and scent. 131.111.248.99 (talk) 19:29, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Aluminium chlorohydrate apparently blocks the pores to prevent perspiring in deoderants that include an antiperspirant. I don't know how many deoderants are combined with antiperspirants, though - and our article does not confirm this - so it's possible it's just some sort of urban legend. Vimescarrot (talk) 21:38, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

In the US, if it's labeled just as "deodorant", it doesn't contain any antiperspirant. StuRat (talk) 12:08, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article Deoderant. After a number of accidents the manufacturer of a stick deoderant withdrew its product that was labelled "Push up bottom before use". Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:05, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it could just possibly have something to do with getting rid of odor (or odour)? Hmm? Hence deodorant. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 21:31, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Sweets

Hi. I'm looking for sweets that can be identified by a two-letter (or, at a stretch, three-letter) combination. The idea is to have an obscure-seeming pair of letters, then I want the penny to drop and the reader says "Doh! Of course!". I would like "classic" sweets familiar to older folk if possible. So far I have JB and MM but I need others. Anyone? Robinh (talk) 19:59, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Is MM for marshmallow or for M&Ms? Googlemeister (talk) 20:12, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

And is JB for jawbreakers or for jelly beans or for jelly babies? It might help if we knew whether your interest is in U.S. or U.K. nomenclature. Deor (talk) 20:19, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Cola Bottles? 131.111.248.99 (talk) 20:14, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Although I'm only familiar with American candy, I can think of Baby Ruth, Kit Kat, Pay Day, Oh Henry!, Almond Joy, Milky Way, 3 Musketeers, Hershey's Kisses and of course the good old Hershey bar (although that one technically doesn't have initials). Most come from the 1920s and 30s, with the Hershey bar (originating in 1900) being the oldest. You can tell I'm a chocolate fiend! =P Xenon54 / talk / 20:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Hello everybody. Thanks for these; it never occurred to me that there would be a UK/US difference; I'd prefer UK ceteris paribus. Also, it didn't occur to me that "MM" would be anything other than "M&M", or that "JB" would be anything other than "jelly baby". Thanks everyone. I really want three or four familiar, small, indivisble sweets of comparable value; I would say an M&M is swappable for a jelly baby. The reason I need these is that I'm writing a statistical paper about choice systems, and at one point I have a synthetic dataset and want a nice succinct legend on my graph. Robinh (talk) 21:11, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I love it. Choosing a methodology for a research project by "what will look nice in the legend of my graph"... LOL. Thanks for the chuckle. --Jayron32 00:30, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi Jayron. It's not quite as bad as it looks, honest! I noticed (just before submission) that one of my formulas generalizes very nicely to matrices. It's too nice to leave out, but OTOH it's too late to actually use the formula. So I made up a dataset ("synthetic") and have just included a very brief proof-of-concept of the new formula, buried in a footnote (hence the need for brevity). But I need a backstory to make the footnote remotely plausible. And the only backstory I could invent involved letting (my) children choose different sweets. It does seem odd, now you mention it. Maybe I ought to get out more. Robinh (talk) 07:32, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Howabout: LA = Liquorish Allsorts / PM = Polo Mints / FP = Fruit Pastills / CB = Cola Bottles / FS = Flying Saucers (do they still make those?) / CC = Cola Cubes / MH = Mint Humbugs / WO - Wurther's Originals Alansplodge (talk) 16:04, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, they still make FS. Kittybrewster ☎ 20:26, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Perfect! thank you all very much! Lots of options here! Best wishes, Robinh (talk) 20:03, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

PB&J —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.148.206.90 (talk) 23:32, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Racism in USMC

I am an Asian-American looking to enlist in the USMC right out of high school. Will I get hazed/bullied/shat on more than my white or black trainees because I am Asian? Essentially, is there a lot of racism towards Asians in the USMC? If so, will it be less in the Army? 128.253.97.15 (talk) 21:31, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

You might ask General Eric Shinseki. Woogee (talk) 21:37, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, Shinseki was in the Army. I would guess (this is based on movies and such) that a lot less hazing takes place in the Army than in the USMC. With harder training comes more bullying, I would guess. Then again, as I said, I don't know. I tend to recommend the Army because it's not as hard (except if you become a Ranger or something). Rimush (talk) 21:52, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

This (from 2005) shows that the USMC has the highest proportion of "white" members of any branch (although I don't know if they count hispanics as white). This shows suicide rates for different services, broken down by age, gender, and ethnicity - it suggests asians/pacific-islanders (it doesn't differentiate the two) have a comparatively high suicide rate in the USMC, but a comparatively low one in the USN. Informally (which means I don't have references beyond a guy I know) I believe recruits at San Diego (those recruited west of the Mississippi) skew demographically hispanic, those at Parris Island skew demographically african american; given that matches the rough racial distribution of the US, and as the distribution of asians seems similarly biased to the west, that would suggest that there would be a higher proportion of asian american recruits at San Diego. -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 22:52, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Honestly this probably isn't the best place to ask that sort of question. You might try seeking out some friends of friends who have been in the area you're considering. I would imagine that your personality has enormously more to do with anything than your race, but it's unfortunately still relevant in some cases, so find someone you trust, and go from there. But I doubt anyone here can truly assuage your concerns online. Shadowjams (talk) 09:11, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Asians (especially South Korean and Japanese) usually have higher suicide rates, even if not in the military. Rimush (talk) 09:21, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

That's due to the Japanese culture, which historically considers suicide an "honorable way out", while we in the US generally consider it "the coward's way out" and a "mortal sin". So, are the people in the US armed forces cultural Japanese or culturally American ? StuRat (talk) 12:04, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

It would be interesting to know. I would guess the US military would instill some American values in a person. Rimush (talk) 12:19, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I would be interested to know now. :-) StuRat (talk) 17:06, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Fixed. It was just a typo, y'know. Rimush (talk) 17:32, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

That's what I figured. StuRat (talk) 17:40, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

One other thing to consider is that there will be an extra helping of discrimination and racism aimed at any minority from a nation where we are currently at war (or who just happens to look like it, so Sikhs could be in trouble, for instance). StuRat (talk) 17:40, 23 April 2010 (UTC)