Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 January 19

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January 19

Golf Balls

Can anyone tell me where I could buy glass-centered golf balls (used or new)?--Pufferfish4 (talk) 00:37, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

as in the glass is in the ball instead of the ball going through the glass window? google should be your friend, but I'm having no luck with it. Julia Rossi (talk) 09:11, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

No, I mean golf balls with a glass center instead of a rubber one. I think they stopped making them thirty years ago but I'm hoping someone might still be selling them.--Pufferfish4 (talk) 23:28, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

You were clear, but the results were elusive. This patent 5743815[1] for a glass encased transponder within a golf ball for identification is dated 1998. Perhaps eBay? Julia Rossi (talk) 09:04, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

No - I checked ebay. These things are not mentioned anywhere - I'm beginning to doubt the reality of them. Conventional golf balls have a densely-wound rubber core around a fluid filled center. Building one with a glass center would change the properties of the ball dramatically - and it's hard to believe that such a thing would even be legal. Of course, 30 years ago the rules of the game may have been less specific about the nature of the ball - and people might well have experimented with all sorts of alternatives. But I can find no mention of them anywhere on the web...and golfers talk about the kinds of balls they use A LOT online - so it's exceedingly surprising to find no mention of them at all. Sadly, I'm pretty sure you're out of luck. SteveBaker (talk) 14:40, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I found one Sunday and I used it. I liked the feel of it, but it rolled into some bushes and I lost it. I know it was glass centered because it said so on the side.--Pufferfish4 (talk) 04:09, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Have you tried posting at a golf forum, or a wanted notice at eBay? With luck you could revive an oldie but a goodie. Julia Rossi (talk) 09:21, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Gas import/export

Accord to Natural gas by country, Russia produces 656,200 million m³ of gas, consumes 610,000, exports 237,200 and imports 58,300. According to my calculator, that involves 132,700 million cubic metres of natural gas appearing out of thin air. What's going on? All the numbers are apparently from 2007 and all are from the same source (CIA World Factbook). I could understand a discrepancy of a few percent, but this is 19% more gas being consumed and exported than is being produced or imported, it makes no sense! --Tango (talk) 03:30, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Those figures do indicate a much larger consumption than should be available. Maybe they're tapping into already processed reserves? Those would have to be some incredibly huge reserves, though. Three other nations in that list have unusual numbers: Iraq, Syria and Tunisia. The first two I can understand, but what's up with Tunisia? Another case of tapping reserves? This report doesn't answer the question of where the excess is coming from, but it does make for some interesting reading about the predicted, and now actual, serious gas shortfall in Russia (more demand than supply). 152.16.59.190 (talk) 09:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Just because those numbers are listed in the same source doesn't mean that that source got them from the same place, using the same assumptions. In the case of Russia, they have some disputed regions which the Russians might consider Russia but others do not, and whether those areas are included or excluded could cause you to get different numbers. StuRat (talk) 14:17, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Knights and peers who die before gazettal

There have been cases where a person was awarded an honour such as a peerage or a knighthood, but died before the award was formally gazetted.

There are numerous cases with knighthoods. Two that come to mind are Henry Cotton and William Throsby Bridges.

• In accordance with protocol, Cotton was approached privately beforehand to indicate his acceptance/rejection of a knighthood, and he accepted. Before the 1988 New Years Honours list was published, however, he died. His award was officially dated to his date of death, to prevent the knighthood being awarded posthumously, which never happens.
• General Bridges was seriously wounded at Gallipoli in May 1915. George V was made aware that he would die very soon, and on 17 May he awarded him a knighthood. On 18 May, Bridges died. The knighthood was not officially gazetted until 22 May. We still refer to him as "Sir William Bridges", however, because the intent was apparent prior to his death, even if the normal protocol could not be gone through due to the circumstances.

Contrast this with Sir John Forrest. He was advised that he was to be elevated to the peerage, and he immediately started signing his name "Forrest" as if it were a done deal, but before the peerage could be officially created by letters patent, he died. Consequently, we make quite a to-do in his article (to which I have been as much a party as anyone else) about why it's not appropriate to refer to him as "Lord Forrest".

Why do we allow knighthoods to creep in under the wire (the wire being the formal establishment of the title) in these sorts of circumstances, but not peerages? Is it simply a difference between a gazettal (applies to knighthoods) and the creation of letters patent (applies to peerages)? -- JackofOz (talk) 03:34, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I think it's the fact that to hold a peerage you have to be presented to the Lord Chancellor in the House of Lords and have two supporters: peerages have to be claimed in person to prevent fraud. Whereas knighthoods are deemed to have been awarded on acceptance, not on collection of the award. IMBW - it's been 30 years since I studied the British Constitution! --TammyMoet (talk) 19:20, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, that makes good sense. I'm just thinking about the normal process. First, the person agrees to be given the peerage (or has made it previously known they'd welcome such an honour; or has asked for one). Then it's conferred by the monarch (this is the monarch agreeing that such a title be created). Then it's announced publicly, usually in some Honours List. Then the title is formally created by letters patent signed by the monarch under the Great Seal, and associated behind-the-scenes red tape. Then the person turns up at the House of Lords and is accepted as a new peer and can take their seat and participate in proceedings if they wish (the majority don't). The red tape must obviously precede this step (there'd be no point in turning up at the House of Lords, only to be told "Sorry, sir, we have no record of any Barony of ... so please go away"). If Forrest had died after the letters patent had been signed, he would have been Lord Forrest at his death, despite never having had the opportunity to appear in London in person to claim the title. So, he must have died before the letters patent were signed - which was something entirely out of his control. I'd have thought these red-tape matters would normally be attended to very promptly after the public announcement, just in case the newly-announced peer died (as Forrest did). He was advised in February 1918 that the King had conferred the peerage, and he didn't die till September. In the intervening 7 months, he was madly signing his name "Forrest", on the perfectly reasonable basis that he had been a peer since February, which, retrospectively, he would have been if only the letters patent had been signed. It seems there must have been some delay at the palace and the letters patent were never done, so bye-bye "Lord Forrest". -- JackofOz (talk) 23:08, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Spanish trip

I am travelling to Madrid, Spain in a couple of days and I would like to know what things I can see there. I have already been to Barcelona: is Madrid a better place to see (i.e does it have more sights)? Where would be the best places to eat or roam around? I know that there is a tourist bus which roams around the city: is it any good? If so, does it go to every interesting places or does it miss out on some? I am not too worried about going to some parts not solely intended for tourists (i.e don't translate everything to French or English) because I can speak Spanish fluently. So do you recommend any such places (note that I have never been to Madrid before). Thanks to everyone for your help! --PST 08:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Any thing I get excited about is in Bilbao and Catalonia, such as work by Anonio Gaudi. No doubt someone will be by soon to excite you in the Madrid direction. Interestingly it is in the apparently geographical centre of the country. Julia Rossi (talk) 09:07, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know Madrid well, but if you have time, you could take the AVE to Toledo (half hour ride). It's one of those places you'll never forget. ---Sluzzelin talk 10:20, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

DO take a ride on the Red open-topped Double-Decker Bus before doing anything else - for several reasons - 1. whether you speak Spanish or not each seat is provided with a new pair of earphones and a multi-lingual audio-guide and YES you will be able to see the most important and scenic buildings and places of interest. 2. Your ticket lasts for 24 hours so you can go in the afternoon and again in the morning for 1 price and also, you can get on and off as many times as you wish within that 24 hour period, and 3. The buses themselves are built here in Scotland so you will be helping the Scottish economy which is being badly damaged by the US Mortgage and Banking disasters. 92.23.47.85 (talk) 12:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Thankyou everyone! I would like to know whether there are any particular places that I should see in particular. The bus mentioned above will probably take me to the important places (thanks!) but are there any small villages nearby that would be good to see? If so, how can I go there? User:Sluzzelin: what is the price to go from Madrid to Toledo? Thanks again! --PST 15:02, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

EUR 9.45 one way, according to renfe, EUR 15.15 for the round-trip (20% discount for round-trips). From what I could see online, the bus fare Madrid-Toledo costs less than half the train ride, but the estimated travel time is about twice to three times as long. (This information is from travel sites, I didn't find any official prices). ---Sluzzelin talk 15:20, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Have you looked at Madrid? ...y en Español [2]. (- also check out the links from there). Apart from the "must see" touristy sights, a lot depends on what you like. [3]. Por exemplo: I'm not into architecture and get bored 3 minutes into the first "magnificent" church; but I love window shopping and flea markets. (All of which can be found in Madrid.)--76.97.245.5 (talk) 05:32, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Soundproofing bathrooms

How can I soundproof the bathrooms in my house? I can't go the bathroom in the middle of the night without waking at least one member of my family. My family wont get a new house unfortunately so how can I deal with this issue of privacy? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 14:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, for starters, have you read our article, Soundproofing? --Tango (talk) 14:39, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Change your habit,the body usually breaks down and uses food for energy or disposes of food as in number two in about a twelve hour period,so,if you eat later in the evening,you will go to number two later the next morning,and not go in the have to flush the toilet and make the noise from flushing.Better than not flushing number one,so there is the smell for any other family member first thing when they use the toilet next morning.No need to spend unecessary money sound proofing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.86.15.15 (talk) 15:52, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

(ec) Soundproofing the entire bathroom is going a bit a far. The noisiest bathroom activity at night is usually flushing the toilet. Either don't flush the toilet until morning, or try to quieten the flush by fitting a quiet-fill device to the valve (usually a strip of plastic that dangles from the valve to the water so that the incoming water doesn't splash so much - your local hardware/DIY store should be able to help). Closing the lid on the toilet seat also reduces noise. However, it could be your toilet's design. Those toilets with the tank high up on the wall and a long chain you pull to flush are particularly noisy. In that case you could see about getting a new (quieter) toilet fitted.

There are other things you can do to reduce noise - eg. if you are male, aim for the sides of the pan when urinating. If you are showering in the middle of the night and singing, maybe you should consider some adjustment to your lifestyle - don't sing, shower earlier or when you get up in the morning.

If all else fails you could always get the rest of the family some earplugs :-)

Astronaut (talk) 14:45, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

We need to identify exactly what is causing the noise. For example, pipes can make noises, either due to rattling in the walls or air pressure, both of which can be fixed by a plumber. Also, if the noise is carried out of the bathroom by pipes, soundproofing the walls of the bathroom would be completely ineffective. Perhaps soundproofing the bedrooms would work better (and also protect from other noises). StuRat (talk) 14:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

It depends on what country you are from too. Plumbing systems in UK homes (for example) have a cold water storage tank in the attic. When you use cold water, that tank has to refill - which is noisy (especially if you are in the bedroom right below it). In the US, cold water for toilet flushing comes directly from the water main - so that doesn't happen. I suppose one thing you could do to cut the noise of flushing would be to fill up a bucket of water in the bathroom before everyone goes to bed. You could tip that directly into the toilet instead of flushing - and perhaps it would be quieter. However, in the end, if you've gotta go, you've gotta go and the rest of the family need to recognise that. SteveBaker (talk) 16:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Since your user talk located you in Melbourne, try the following: [4], [5], Sometimes a simple solution to dampening bathroom noise is installing a fabric shower curtain and drapes [6]. (The more folds and swags the better. Just install tension rods in front of existing shower doors.) Natural or artificial plants can also help "swallow" some of the noise [7]. A non-slip mat in your shower will reduce the noise from the water hitting the pan. [8] Good luck. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 06:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Minimalist bathrooms with hard surfaces everywhere are echo-chambers; soft furnishings will help absorb sound. Then there are ear plugs. Julia Rossi (talk) 09:08, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Your bathroom is too tidy, you need piles of dirty clothes in there to absorb all the noise. :-) StuRat (talk) 17:52, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

mutilation,shreding and dead pigs killed by their brothers. why? and friendly coment about peta

BEFOREHAND ok if your in peta stop reading now your not going to like what im going to say, better yet stay and think about what i say. dont question what i have to say, dont denie me of what i know, what i say here now is from first hand experience. i know that i spell abunch of words wrong but please look past that. i am 16 years old and the son of a farmer. we have a 400+ year old farm has been in the family for about 100 of the 400.

i have noticed in our young pigs (which went into our weaning pen and we never casterated them, then they got too big to. (about 100-150lbs, little more than a foot wide, 2.5 ft long).) have been nibiling on each other, first we thought it was because they were hungry/didnt get enough food, but soon after we start to realize that they were eating less and less. corn i mean.(we have a 2.5-3 ft tall 8-10 inches wide, feeders that hold about 15 galons. the corn we feed them is ground to practicly a powder, we also add in nutrience.) any ways we started to noticed that more tails were missing first it was only a select few and there were about 25 pigs in a 15-20' by 10-15' pen. then the lack of tails got more noticeable and comon. then they started to just eat each other and we cant understand why i would like to know your opinions and facts or if u can point me in the right direction to the answer.

(Soapbox portion removed. This isn't a forum to express random opinions or start debates.)

thank you for your time and replies —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mike sharpe16 (talk • contribs) 15:28, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

The wikipedia reference desk is not for "express[ing] what you believe". Stop wasting our time. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:37, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Don't overlook the fact that there is actually a question in there. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 15:45, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Have you considered asking a vet? --98.217.8.46 (talk) 16:16, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Cannibalism is a common response to the unnatural and stressful conditions of factory farms, which is why debeaking birds and tail docking or tooth clipping pigs is a common countermeasure. Your choices are basically to give the animals a less stressful environment or to start cutting troublesome parts off when they're piglets (here is a how-to). FYI, I've got a few pigs free-ranging on pasture, and I've never had this problem. --Sean 16:18, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm with Sean, if you keep them in uncommon conditions then they will do uncommon things. Just like human beings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.182.202 (talk) 16:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

It's never a good sign, (and somewhat insulting) when a question starts off by telling certain people not to read it. In any case, this seems like a request for veterinary advice. The ref-desk isn't supposed to answer that sort of question. APL (talk) 16:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Pigs are omnivorous, so a protein-deficient diet may result in cannibalism. Check with a vet for the protein requirements for your pigs, and see that they get at least that amount. StuRat (talk) 18:39, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

StuRat, are you speaking with any actual knowledge of pigs or are you just reasoning as you go along? Sometimes I find your answers to be worse than just saying nothing at all, as it is clear you just try to reason your way through things that actually could benefit from some specialized knowledge, but you portray everything as if you are quite certain about it. The only useful thing I see in the above comment is "check with a vet" which is really all anyone ought to say here, unless they have real experience with animal medicine. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 02:23, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Which part of my logic do you find questionable ?

1) Pigs, like all animals, require protein.

2) Any animal which is deficient in protein (or any nutrient) in it's diet will actively seek that nutrient, by having a stronger desire for it and therefore tendency to consume foods which provide it.

3) Pigs are omnivorous, which means they sometimes eat meat to get protein.

4) Omnivores sometimes resort to cannibalism.

5) Pigs, being omnivores, may also resort to cannibalism when their diet is deficient in protein.

I also disagree with your idea that people shouldn't reason through their problems. If the poster asks the vet if a protein-deficient diet may cause cannibalism in pigs, they will get their answer. If so, then this might help to solve the problem. If not, then it's no big loss, just the time it took to ask and answer the question. StuRat (talk) 04:14, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Also, since you insist on "expert sources", and reject reasoning, here is one which supports my claim: [9]. I hope that, in the future, you will put more faith in reason (and, specifically, in my ability to reason correctly). StuRat (talk) 04:31, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Stu, I think people come here seeking actual knowledge, not to observe the contest between editors to exhibit superior reasoning skills. Or SteveBaker, who does both and supplies links and references. It's nice that you produce a source, but you did that to defend your reasoning, where you could have just supplied the source in the first place to help the OP, rather than refute the one who questioned your derivation. Interesting too that you use the source to defend your impeccable logic but skip over the bit where it says "The causes ... are poorly understood ..." and just focus on the inevitability of cannibalism. That source refutes my suggestion below to put a tire in the pen but at least I've been there, done that, tried to keep the suckers alive and killed the ones who weren't going to make it. Stick to your areas of expertise, or bring the authoritative sources when you first post please. Franamax (talk) 09:56, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

What you added below is "original research", with no supporting expert source, which is banned under our guidelines: Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Guidelines#Guidelines_for_responding_to_questions. I personally have no problem with OR, however, or logic, or providing expert sources. Any way that the poster can get a good answer is fine with me (and, frankly, I can't understand why others complain about correct answers that come from a source other than experts). And, since my answer agrees with the expert source, and your tire answer does not, that seems to say that my logic provides a more accurate answer than your OR. Yes, the source does say "The causes ... are poorly understood ...", but then goes ahead to list possible causes, including a lack or protein in the diet. And, when the experts don't fully understand something, that's when things like OR and solving problems with logic have the potential to be the most beneficial. What's the alternative, should we say "the experts aren't sure, so we can't tell you anything, now go away" ? StuRat (talk) 14:25, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Temple Grandin's book Animals in Translation mentions the way pigs will bite other pigs, especially tails, when experiencing stress. She gets into some detail about how difficult it is to determine what exactly might be causing the stress. It might be some minor aspect of their environment that goes unnoticed by the people caring for them. She offers a variety of ideas on how to figure it out. Pfly (talk) 08:03, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

First of all, castrate the pigs. Call the vet to anesthetize them and get it done. Especially if there are females anywhere close, the males will fight and if the loser is injured, it will be killed and eaten. Unless you're raising a boar, castrate the males, otherwise you will only have one left anyway.

Hang a used tire in the pen about a foot off the floor so they have something else to chew on. Throw in some 2" dia. stones for them to chew on. Pigs need to root and chew, they're quite intelligent and they get bored hanging around a plain old pen. Our pigs would find a tiny crack in the floor or walls and turn it into a cavern.

Check with your local farm district on guidelines for space too, and go to the high side. Pigs love to be together, but they like having a bit of space to roam around too. You can tell when they have enough room when there is one spot where they all drop their dung, and another spot where they have straw to sleep on. (No straw left = bored pigs eating it 'cause there's nothing else to do) 10x15 is too small for 25 pigs, 15x20 is reasonable IMO. Mostly though, give them something interesting in their environment other than each others tails. Franamax (talk) 09:37, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with giving them interesting things to play with to avoid boredom, which can lead to destructive behavior. This is called "enriching their environment". Intelligent animals need variety, so toss something different into their pen periodically for them to play with (a paper bag (not plastic), a cardboard box, a fallen tree branch, etc.). Make sure you don't give them anything dangerous, of course, keeping in mind that they're likely to nibble on anything you give them. StuRat (talk) 14:45, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Forgot this before, but was reminded while ranting at StuRat - sorry Stu btw :)

No prob, Fran, but I hope I've convinced you that experts aren't the only source of knowledge; my logic and your OR are also good sources. StuRat (talk) 15:17, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Also I wouldn't advise feeding only supplemented corn ground that fine. Coarser grind, throw in some other higher protein grains, and I do hope you slop the feed with water so they can spend an hour rooting around. Stu is on track at least that you need to look at Total Digestible Nutrients and ensure that all categories are supplied. Corn with a nutrient supplement makes me suspicious. Your local feed mill can help you out or put you in touch with someone - in Canada, I would call Shur-Gain. Both of those can help you with the behaviour also. Franamax (talk) 10:14, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

While we've given some good advice on how to prevent pig cannibalism, you may also need some advice on how to stop it now that it has started. One approach is to coat the bitten areas with something "yucky" that pigs won't want to bite. Of course, this must not be harmful to the pig being treated, and will be in contact with open wounds. Here's a patent application for one such formula: [10]. However, again, ask your vet what they recommend for this purpose. StuRat (talk) 14:53, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Also, I gave an expert source previously on ways to prevent this behavior in pigs, but it may have gotten buried in a discussion about the way I solve questions with logic. So, here it is again: [11]. (Note that it comes up tiny on my browser, so I have to hit the button just above the text to increase the magnification a few times, you may have to do the same.) StuRat (talk) 15:01, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Desi documentaries

Is there any documentaries dealing with the South Asian community(Bangladeshi, Indian, Pakistani and Sri Lankan) in Toronto and and the word "Desi"? Many South Asian youths don't like using the word "Desi", but they use the brown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.204.75.80 (talk) 16:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Have your read our article Desi? It seems to cover this stuff rather comprehensively. SteveBaker (talk) 03:27, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I wanna fly away!

Well, actually float. I've had a silly, albeit half-serious idea in my head for a few weeks. I've heard of the tale of the man who tied dozens of huge balloons to his lawn chair, intending to float harmlessly in the air for a short while, but accidentally soared up some ridiculous height into the air, and all sorts of unintended consequences abounded. I thought that (in moderation), this could have been a good idea. My version would entail a helium tank and normal, run-of-the-mill, balloons, like those you would see at a party. One would simply keep tying helium-filled balloons to their body until they fundamentally weighed less. An assistant would probably have to be present, to prevent the floatee from floating off.

Would this be possible to pull off? Would "moon jumps" be possible? And if it could be done, how many balloons might it take to lift a 150 lb. / 70 kg. person?--The Ninth Bright Shiner 16:48, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, the guy you're thinking of was Larry Walters. I can't answer your other question except to say that you lowered your effective weight with a huge collection of balloons you'd probably be very vulnerable to wind. APL (talk) 16:55, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

A description of the most well known example of this is here. It requires a lot of balloons - weather balloons work better than party balloons, since they are much larger. According to Lighter than air, you would need about 70 cubic metres of helium to lift you - that's a lot! Obviously, a bit less is required if you just want to be light enough to jump really high - perhaps 50-60 cubic metres? --Tango (talk) 17:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

The fact that Larry needed a forged requisition to get those weather balloons implies that I (an ordinary citizen) wouldn't be able to easily purchase them. And 50-60 cubic meters of helium...what kind of cost would that be running?

And to take wind into account...I'd probably need a good length of rope anchored to something, doing this on a calm day, as well as a few assistants to pull back on the rope if need be.--The Ninth Bright Shiner 17:29, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Edmund Scientific Sells weather balloons. APL (talk) 03:07, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

There is a kind of "hot air balloon ride" often offered at county fairs and such, where it's anchored and the customers go up, stay a while, and straight back down to the same spot. I see no reason why you couldn't do the same with multiple helium-filled balloons. Windy days would be out, however, as noted above. Where you attach the balloons to your body can also be tricky, as pulling on your armpits and crotch gets to be uncomfortable in short order. If you want to float upright, you'd need to attach most balloons to your armpits. StuRat (talk) 18:29, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Just don't use as many balloons as this 2008 Darwin Award nominee. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:28, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

--cringes-- The thought of free-floating is a bit too scary for me, considering how that's gone for others; all of my envisioned escapades would still be tethered to the ground.--The Ninth Bright Shiner 19:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

The Mythbusters tried to reproduce Larry Walter's feat - they found that it took an astounding amount of helium to do it. Let's crunch the numbers to understand why:

This web site [12] sells helium for about 0.50p (UK money) per cubic foot in tanks you have to return when empty or more like 2.00 per cu.ft in disposable cylinders. So the 70 cubic meters you would need to get airborne would be about 2,500 cu.ft - which is going to set you back maybe 1300 UKpounds - about $1850 US. Now - recall that you're also going to need a few thousand balloons (they aren't really 1 cu.ft each). How long would it take you to fill (let's say) 4,000 balloons? One every 30 seconds? That's 33 hours straight - with no breaks. Nah - it's gonna take you three days to do it - 11 hours per day - one every 30 seconds. Your fingers are going to be red-raw from tying off all of those balloons! Ah - but there's a problem here. How long does a helium balloon stay inflated? Not for 3 days, that's for sure!

So, my conclusion is that you can NEVER get that many helium balloons in one place at one time without a LOT of people helping you. Perhaps you could find 100 people who'd be prepared to help you do this? OK - but you've still gotta find many thousands of dollars for an experience that can only last a day or so.

This is why Larry Walters used weather balloons - they are MUCH larger than party balloons - so you need a lot less of them and you stand a chance of getting them filled quickly enough. The Mythbusters found it was possible - but it took them a LOT longer and a LOT more helium than they estimated. Part of the reason for that is the elasticity of the ballons. If you inflate a balloon, the gas inside will be at considerably higher pressure than air pressure. This does two very bad things to one's estimations: Firstly, it takes more gas to get up to that pressure - so it takes TWO cubic feet of gas to inflate a 1 cubic foot balloon to (say) 2 atmospheres. Secondly, when you put gas into the balloon under pressure, it's denser than it would be at room temperature - and that means that the balloon weighs more and has less lift. So what you want is big, floppy not-very-elastic balloons.

In the end, the cost and inflation time is what kills you - and you spend all that money to do it just once!

It starts to look like a VASTLY better deal to go for something like this [13] - a one-man hot-air balloon. Sure, it's HUGE - but compared to 4,000 party balloons?! You can fly it as often as you want for the cost of a tank of propane...maybe $10. They cost something like $15,000 and cost about $15 per flight. So compared to the cost of helium - the thing pays for itself after about half a dozen flights.

SteveBaker (talk) 00:28, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Would Hank Hill sell me one of those? Seems like the ultimate "propane accessory". --Trovatore (talk) 00:39, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

;_; My dream...crushed...but at least it's still possible with one of those one-man hot-air balloons. <whine> But $15,000...? </whine> Oh well...it seems like this will be another super-long-term goal for me. Thank you everyone!--The Ninth Bright Shiner 00:43, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

To be honest - it's worse than that. You really can't just climb into one of those things and fly. If you read the FAQ at the web site I linked to, you'll see that you need to be an experienced 'conventional' hot air balloon pilot before you can even think about a cloud hopper. So perhaps a reasonable shorter term goal would be to take some hot air balloon trips and consider getting lessons. SteveBaker (talk) 00:51, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

The previous analysis seemed to use common elastic party balloons, but there is a metallic type of balloon with better properties, it's far less permeable to helium, so holds it in far longer, and is less flexible, so it doesn't increase the pressure as much. Then there's always hydrogen-filled balloons. Yes, they can explode, but only with an ignition source. Assuming you would avoid flying on days with thunderstorms, this isn't very likely. If the balloons are black, you might also get enough of a lift from solar heating to be a significant portion of the total lift (though you'd need to leave some empty space in the balloons to allow for expansion under heating, or they might pop). StuRat (talk) 04:02, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't try cluster ballooning with hydrogen: one of the candidate ignition sources for the Hindenburg was static electricity, and cluster balloons rubbing against things could certainly build up a charge. --Carnildo (talk) 00:54, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I believe you need to rub two different materials together to build up a positive charge in one and a negative charge in the other. Balloons against your hair will do this, for example. StuRat (talk) 14:46, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Material #1: a balloon. Material #2: the rope connecting the next one up the line to your lawn chair. --Carnildo (talk) 23:43, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Of course we have an article on this topic: Cluster ballooning. Pfly (talk) 08:13, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

In 2008, this Brazilian thought it was a great idea at the time[14] until Priest floats off under party balloons. Julia Rossi (talk) 09:15, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Even with those metallic balloons, it still looks more economically viable (in the long, looong term) to get the cloudhopper. After getting enough money. After becoming an experienced hot air balloon pilot. After I take a hot air balloon ride for the first time. Meh. Thanks again, everyone!

I wonder why all the good dreams take so many years to fulfill. :-) --The Ninth Bright Shiner 20:18, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Monkey Menace

How do i get rid of monkeys that scale into my apartment and mess around with anything around, they tore my shirt to a hankerchief and my trousers are getting patchy everyday.The worst is, they even bit my neighbour hence i am a bit concerned now. Just dont want to hurt them but if i can ward them off as they are very agressive. anyone?Vikram79 (talk) 17:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Do they climb in through windows ? If so, I suggest some bars on the windows, perhaps with outward facing spikes. Make them something you can easily open but monkeys can't, and remember they're smart, but something with a latch on the inside (they can't reach from outside) might work. A big mean dog might work, too, as long as it doesn't do all the same things the monkeys do. Unfortunately, this carries the risk that you might find bloody monkey parts all over the apartment one day when you come home. Another idea is to leave a stereo playing sounds of common monkey predators, but they might be smart enough to figure that trick out. So, we're back to my original suggestion of physically blocking all the entrance routes. If monkeys are a problem in your area, I would imagine the sell "monkey bars" just for the purpose of keeping them out. StuRat (talk) 18:17, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Hardware cloth] (might have a different name in non-U.S. countries) or even Chicken wire set in a wood frame screwed to the window frame should keep them out nicely, at a lower cost than metal bars. Edison (talk) 20:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

A bigger, meaner monkey perhaps? TastyCakes (talk) 20:12, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

A specific answer would kind of depend on what type of monkey you are talking about. Baboons, for example, can be vicious. Where I used to live it was far more common to find bloody dog parts around, when a canine has the misfortune to mess with a troop of baboons. Rockpocket 00:17, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Airline tracking

Are passenger manifest public information or is that considered a violation of the Privacy Act? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Colodreamn (talk • contribs) 17:59, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

In what jurisdiction? Algebraist 19:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

And which Privacy act? Under U.S. laws, airlines are private organizations, and are free to set their own stipulations on selling you a ticket. One of those stipulations can be "the right to let the entire world know that you flew on a particular flight and sat in a particular seat." If you don't want the information public, you are fully allowed to NOT buy said ticket from that company. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 20:43, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I asked one time if a relative had made a flight (in the US) and was told that they couldn't give me the information, all they could tell me was if the flight they were scheduled on had left on time or not. AnyPerson (talk) 00:05, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't mean the law prevents it, they probably just have a policy against it. "There's no reason for it, sir, that's just our policy." StuRat (talk) 00:27, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

That also backs up my point. It is probably entirely up to the whim of the company as to how they handle that information. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:40, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

This makes me wonder if it may be a case of we have always done it that way. It looks from some of the things said that prior to 1997 US airlines may not have had manifests that matched the actual people on the aircraft. Canadian airlines tend not to provide information on aircraft passengers. Of course if you are polite, ask properly and can read between the lines then it's sometimes possible to get the information from an airline agent. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 07:26, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I supect they are worried about being sued. Also a companion may not be a spouse, and if the spouse finds out by reading the manifest, the airline will probably lose customers. Phil_burnstein (talk) 16:49, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

What is this song?

The snippet of tune after the opening theme...

A-Punk by Vampire Weekend — Matt Eason ^{(Talk &#149; Contribs)} 19:32, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

COPC

By certifying ourselves for COPC, how does it help? finally are there tools to learn it?thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.36.6 (talk) 19:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

You can try our article COPC Inc., but that acronym may also refer to Community Outreach Partnership Center, Community-Oriented Primary Care, Chemical of Potential Concern, Contaminant of Potential Concern, Customer Operation Performance Center, Constituent of Potential Concern, Code of Professional Conduct, Command Privilege Code or Central Order Processing Center. Can you please give us the context? --Thomprod (talk) 19:43, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Website?

Are there places I could go to on the internet that have lots of information of particular topics, providing statistcs, arguments and such like for all sides of disagreements.

Particularly I would be interested now in a site with lots of information about the cost to the environment of building 'environmentally friendly' new buildings, compared to the cost of improving the environmental friendliness of existing buildings, and the effectivnes of these two approaches, though I expect I will often need to find similar amounts of information on a lot of other topics. Possibly a site similar to this one, that gathers as much information as possible.

148.197.114.207 (talk) 19:55, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia IS a good place for that - but you have to pick where you go. Here on the RD, we're focussed on answering specific, short-term questions. So we don't gather a lot of information beyond what is strictly needed - and in a few days, it's archived and mostly forgotten. In 'article space', you might start contributing to articles related to this issue - but the related Talk: pages are NOT intended for discussion about the subject - they are about the content of the article only. But the "best fit" for your interests is to find Wikipedia 'Projects' that relate to your needs. A project typically consists of a dozen or two people interested in a particular general area of interest who collaborate on producing or improving a larger number of related articles. On the project's Talk: page - you can discuss the material that exists on the subject - pull in more stuff - discuss the relevance of it and fit what works into articles. You might start by looking at Wikipedia:List_of_WikiProjects. You might (for example) want to discuss this question on Wikipedia:WikiProject Civil engineering or Wikipedia:WikiProject Energy. There are literally hundreds of projects to choose from - and (if you REALLY want to) you could even start your own if you can find enough other editors to join in. Our sister projects WikiBooks, WikiSource and Wikiversity might also be attractive to you. SteveBaker (talk) 00:02, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

For statistics you can find a lot of info at [15]--76.97.245.5 (talk) 06:23, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

What is the music in this youtube video?

What is the music in this youtube video? It could be the music from SimCity 3000 according to one comment. The link is here. --Blue387 (talk) 21:24, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Highway Blues by Marc Seales on the album Speakin' Out. If you have Windows XP, it's included in Windows Media Player. --Crackthewhip775 (talk) 21:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow, thanks! --Blue387 (talk) 22:20, 19 January 2009 (UTC)