Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2009 August 3

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August 3

Munich street sign font

Could anyone identify the font in this sign? This image identifies it as aktuelle Antiqua, but of course that is rather vague. Thanks a lot. WilliamH (talk) 00:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

de:Benutzer:Chumwa seems to have passable English; perhaps he'll know? --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 00:57, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

WhatTheFont couldn't find an exact match, but got pretty close with Schillerplatz Bold. — QuantumEleven 08:13, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Pretty close. Totally useless info: I bicycled by Aberlestraße pretty regularly as a kid; my trumpet repair guy worked near there. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 16:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

It's hand-lettered. The second 'r' has a longer arc than the first, and the last 'e' has a shorter tail than the others. —Tamfang (talk) 21:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

TV.com's rankings

At TV.com I was checking a show and saw under Buzz that "ranks 1,441 out of the 18,265 shows on TV.com." Well, I wanted to find which show was ranked #1, so I checked the home page, and clicked "Full List." It showed Lost (TV Series) at the top of the list, but then on Lost's page it said Lost was #309. Well, then, which show was #1 and how do I find that out? --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 02:46, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

TV.com has forums. You are likely to get an answer to this question if you post it there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.172.19.20 (talk) 11:37, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Cell blocker/jammer -- possible?

In today's paper there are two separate stories about families whose recent summer camping experiences were seriously marred by the nonstop chatter of a man in the adjacent campsite; apparently he spent the entire weekend /shouting/ into his cell phone (because reception was less than 5-bars, I guess) to continue to direct things at his home office.

Got me to thinking, would it be possible to build a little black box that would block, jam, or just fill with static the frequencies that cell phones use, for a radius of, say, 50 meters. (Makes me think of the Cone of Silence, on a larger scale :-) .)

It wouldn't prevent Mr I'm-so-important-my-company-can't-get-along-without-me from talking at all, but it might move him far enough away that he would cease to be a constant annoyance.

Possible? Difficult? Maybe an off-the-shelf product already exists??

--DaHorsesMouth (talk) 03:07, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: I'm going to break about as many rules of decorum and whatever else here, and respond "in-line" to many of the replies. I've been gone for a couple of days, and this is the first time I've read the page since I posted the question. Further, I will be the first to admit that when I have seen other rants like this, I've said to myself "Jeez, he should just chill out" -- but now that the same thing has happened to me, I find it difficult to do so. Maybe for the purposes of this I should go by DaHorsesAss ... --DaHorsesMouth (talk) 02:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Assuming the guy isn't carrying a weapon of some kind, maybe everyone gathering around him to listen up close would give him a hint. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Did you read the first four words of the question? I read about this in the newpaper. It didn't happen to me. I'm not the one that needs the lecture. --DHA.

In the US, the FCC has ruled that cell phone jamming technologies are illegal (because they intentionally interfere with properly licensed and operated bandwidth). Similar rules exist in a variety of other countries. Dragons flight (talk) 04:56, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

This didn't happen to me, and I'm not the one that needs the lecture. All I wanted to know was whether or not the technology exists or not. --DHA.

Sounds like gathering around the guy is a good approach, then. He's basically disturbing the peace. But you don't need to call the cops. Just hang around him until he stops. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:07, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

It might be a good approach, but it didn't happen to me, and I didn't ask how to deal with it. All I wanted to know was whether or not the technology exists or not. --DHA.

It certainly is possible to make such a jammer, and indeed here is one you could make yourself, although as pointed out such a device would be illegal and quite difficult to make, even with the plans. TastyCakes (talk) 05:45, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you! --DaHorsesMouth (talk) 02:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

From what I gather, they block signals in grammar and high schools quite frequently. Dismas|^(talk) 05:46, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't know what country you are talking about - but that would certainly be illegal in the USA. One school in Iowa is considering doing it anyway [1] - but it's pretty obvious that it's not going to be allowed. SteveBaker (talk) 14:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

If they do it by constructing the building in such a way that it is a Faraday Cage, I doubt that would violate the law. Googlemeister (talk) 15:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

And assuming it's "illegal", and they stop him from using his cell... it's out in the woods, so what's he going to do? ... call a cop? ... using what? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:49, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Unless the OP was planning to chase the guy with the jammer (which sounds a rather risky thing to do), it seems eminently possible he could call someone about it. Whether that person would do anything is unclear. More to the point, many people may not be comfortable using an illegal device in an illegal manner. Particularly when it gives some idiot a thing over them. Nil Einne (talk) 19:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

NO, I was not planning to chase the guy with the jammer. This didn't happen to me -- I read it in the newspaper, and all I wanted to know was whether or not the technology exists or not. --DHA.

(outdent)Judging by your use of the vocabulary "cell phones" I am guessing that you are not in the UK, but this [2] site gives both general and specific advice on how to tackle it. I've had it enforced when neighbours insisted on having loud parties at 3am in Central London. The law has been applied in kinds of incidents, including neighbours having noisy sex (!) [3]. The first suggestion is

Tackle the Source

First, approach whoever is responsible for the noise. They will often not realise they are disturbing you. The majority of noise complaints are resolved informally, and you may well get a quicker result than if you wait for an official to arrive. In cases where you might feel threatened, or where previous personal approaches have not worked, go to your local authority.

Hope this helps. -- Alexandr Dmitri (Александр Дмитрий) (talk) 05:53, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't help, because it doesn't begin to answer the question. This didn't happen to me. I don't need the lecture. --DHA.

Possibly more to the point, he may not realize how well sound carries in the quiet of a rural area, and if his conversation is confidential, he might not want to be broadcasting it. Appealing to selfish instincts often works. Not always, though. Cellphone users have kind of displaced cigarette smokers for extraordinarily rude public behavior. Smoking and cellphoning at the same time would be the "motherlode". Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Another person who didn't read the first line of the question. This didn't happen to me -- I read it in the newspaper, and all I wanted to know was whether or not the technology exists or not. --DHA.

I'm very skeptical of this guy's supposed cell-phone jammer (linked above by TastyCakes). By virtue of being a CDMA, spread-spectrum technology, cellular telephones are inherently resilient (though not truly immune) to interfering signals. The interfering jammer would need to monitor the signals, estimate the CDMA code, and inject signals modulated with the correct CDMA code. Spread spectrum coding was specifically designed to make this difficult - it's the same technology used on wide-band fighter jet RADARs. Even the term "jamming" is not really correct here. "Jamming" refers to broadcasting a strong analog tone with the intent to saturate the receiver front-end amplifier - but again, by virtue of the CDMA technology, that tone will be ignored (its energy will get demodulated by the digital decode, and its effect will be very small, regardless of how strong the jammer transmits). The jammer would need to broadcast a very strong signal over a very wide frequency band to completely saturate the cellular phone. As such, any interfering device is more properly a "digital electronic countermeasure" - and I'm very skeptical that a hobbyist project would be able to build one. Nimur (talk) 06:39, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

That's cool, and very interesting. Thanks, Nimur. --DaHorsesMouth (talk) 02:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I know the folks at ladyada.net quite well - and use their forum systems quite a bit to chat about Arduino stuff - I'm reasonably confident that if they say it works, then it does...and there are several reports on their forum system of people having successfully built them (although you can't always trust what you read). Of course they are taking a very large risk in selling it - it's illegal to sell or own cell phone jamming equipment in the USA...however, they believe they are dodging the law by selling it in kit form...I dunno about that! SteveBaker (talk) 14:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Can't comment on whether it actually works or not, but I would suspect it does since it was part of her thesis at MIT. I should probably also point out that they're not selling it as a kit or any components of it, they are just giving instructions for making it (she released the design as open source). TastyCakes (talk) 19:03, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it's only for GSM phones? Nil Einne (talk) 18:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Walk into a cinema in Hong Kong and your phone won't get a signal. Very common place, and very, very welcome. DOR (HK) (talk) 09:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

A kindergarten I worked at in Japan had a jammer, and you had to go outside to use your phone. I never understood the reason why they had a jammer, though, because it was just policy for the teachers not to use their mobile phones while at work (as looking after 3-5 year olds is a full-time process), and none of the kids had mobile phones. This was strange, honestly, because I have worked at many other schools with older kids who DO have mobile phones, and none of them have had jammers. I do believe they are a good idea in some ways, because sitting on a train for a long journey and you are trying to sleep with some guy sitting next to you giving you half a conversation is very annoying. However, I think they are not a good idea, too, because they block people's contact with emergency services, when necessary. I think some people should just be taught more etiquette. --KageTora - (영호 (影虎)) (talk) 15:35, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it was to enforce their policy of no mobile phones at work? I know it seems a little odd, would make more sense for them to just monitor their staff properly but who knows. Alternatively, perhaps parents were creating problems, e.g. having loud conversations while picking up/dropping off kids. BTW, are you sure the kids had no mobiles? I know it seems unlikely if they were 3-5 but this is Japan. Perhaps some used to have them until the jammer came in? Nil Einne (talk) 19:04, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

While a jammer made for the purpose of jamming is illegal, it is not illegal to simply construct a building where one cannot get reception. That's how most of the classroom's in my old high school were, and since it can't technically be proven that they built them specifically for that purpose, they can't get in trouble. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 19:36, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

One downside of operating a cellphone jammer is that in an emergency, such as a man wearing a hockey mask, or carrying a chainsaw, or a using hook intended for large fish, who is going around murdering people, unless there were a convenient land line, there would be no way to summon emergency personnel. Similarly, someone might have a heart attack or there might be a lost toddler. To me the only possibly morally (if not legally) justifiable use would be attended, where you operate the jammer while the a-hole says "What??? You're breaking up!" and then turn it off if there are no more disruptions. Edison (talk) 01:47, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why it matters whether the people who built the building admit why it was built in that way or it can be proven why it was built in that way. They aren't operating a device or transmitting anything. They're just blocking signals from getting in and out from a private building. There could be some exceptions I guess if the building is considered publicly accessible (which may include a school) but definitely in the case I find it hard to believe it's likely to be illegal in many countries, not without evidence. Nil Einne (talk) 19:04, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

OK now, well, thanks, I feel better now. Thanks to those who read the question and answered it. This issue is

Resolved

--DaHorsesMouth (talk) 02:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

For the sake of your blood pressure, consider that most of us here don't know you any better than we know the campers in the story. It's quite natural that a question about what can be done in such an event should prompt thoughts about what else can be done. Who knows, someone reading this might get some practical advice as well as an answer to your purely hypothetical question. —Tamfang (talk) 21:42, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Ye Olde Luke, it may very well be that where you live jamming cell phone signals is illegal. But, it isn't where I live, and in fact is very commonplace (as noted above). DOR (HK) (talk) 08:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Did loop 494 in Texas from Humble to Patton Village once serve as highway 59?

This is something that has interested me for a while. I have family that remember Cleveland, TX before the bypass was built, and it looks as if one was built around Splendora Texas as well. So that got me thinking Loop 494 might have been the highway at some point. Also, does anyone know where to find references that show what the road looked like 10, 20, 30, etc years ago????

Yes, according to the Texas State Highway Designation File from the TxDOT, Loop 494 is along the old route of US 59, "From US 59 at New Caney, southwestward along old location US 59 to US 59 south of Harris/Montgomery County line." I created the Texas State Highway Loop 494 article; in the future, you might find that the Wikipedia:WikiProject Texas State Highways project is a good place to ask these sorts of questions. (Also see List of highways in Montgomery County, Texas and Category:Texas state highway loops and spurs). Nimur (talk) 07:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

(Actually, Wikiprojects are NOT the place to ask this kind of question - unless it somehow relates to an article you are writing or editing that falls under their auspices. This is the correct place to ask this kind of question.) SteveBaker (talk) 14:12, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Scripts

Do we have a list of types of writing, and how they developed, eg Roman, Rune, Russian oriental, sanscrit ect —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.172.58.82 (talk) 09:28, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

List_of_writing_systems? I think it's too broad to say how each developed, but there should be links. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 09:33, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

For roman see Latin alphabet, for russian see Cyrillic alphabet, for runes see Runic alphabet, also Sanskrit and Arabic alphabet Hebrew alphabet etc. as starting points. 83.100.250.79 (talk) 12:01, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Also History of the alphabet, and Phoenician alphabet for the ancestor of all those scripts. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:46, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Pint

Sorry for my bad English ! I read that 1 imperial pint = 568.26125 millilitres (exactly) ≈ 568 ml, but in the 20th century. Between 1795 and 1798, was it the same ? If no, how much ml was it (for milk) ? Thank you for yours answers. --Égoïté (talk) 11:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

The pint article is pretty comprehensive in its explanation of various pint measures and their metric equivalents. However, no mention is made of it being different between 1795 and 1798. Why do you think that for 3 years the metric equivalence of a pint was different?

Is it possible you were looking at the French article fr:Unités de mesure anciennes (France)#Mesure du volume des liquides? It mentions an alternative pint of 48 cubic inches = 952.146 millilitres used in France during the "Ancien Régime" (ie. before the 1789 revolution). Astronaut (talk) 13:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the OP is asking whether the value between 1795–1798 was the same as the present-day value, not whether it changed during that interval. -- Coneslayer (talk) 13:09, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes I just need to know how much ml was equal to 1 imperial pint of milk in the period 1795-1798. Thank you --Égoïté (talk) 14:56, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

The answer might differ from country to country, I assume you meant England or France?83.100.250.79 (talk) 15:27, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Imperial pint was not used in France, I think... It is there, p.101, note 17. Thank you, --Égoïté (talk) 16:44, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry the date 1804/5 eluded me.

Have you seen this site http://home.clara.net/brianp/index.html it states that post 1824 the imperial system was standardised (and has not changed much since), but also mentions that the definition of a gallon changed - so it's reasonable to assumed that pre-1824 1pint was not equal to 568ml.

Unfortunately I can't find as yet what a gallon was in 1795.83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

According to Weights and Measures Act there was a "Weights and Measures Act 1795" - most likely this will have the information you seek - the British Library should have a copy, if you can't find it elsewhere.83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your answers. I try to understand and hope to come here tomorrow. --Égoïté (talk) 21:16, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Of course, the act of 1795 would not describe the volume in milliliters, which at the time were seen as French units and anyway had only just been invented. It might not be possible just by reading the act to know what the size of its units was. --Anonymous, 01:54 UTC, August 7, 2009.

"sayings"

I'm wondering what the meaning of some of the old sayings my mother had would be. The one I most recently questioned was: An itchy palm means money. But does it mean money coming in or going out? Does it matter which palm? Another one is an itchy foot, an itchy nose. Any history on the origin and/or meaning? This is just for conversation use. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.77.229.75 (talk) 16:08, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

According to my grandmother (and m other), an itchy palm means you're going to gain money (or specifically win the lottery). An itchy nose means you have to kiss a fool. Adam Bishop (talk) 16:23, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

An itchy nose could be the start of Rhinitis or a sweet story.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:28, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I may get this the wrong way around but I recall my late mother saying an itchy palm meant one of 2 things depending on which palm. I think it went something like "Right to receive - Left to Grieve". Mebbe someone else with a better memory could clarify. 92.23.47.122 (talk) 21:54, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

PIG LATIN/CODE

Can someone decipher this: saihf hsaf hsaeht 'hslka gh'agh'a h'lag --67.85.117.190 (talk) 16:14, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't look like Pig Latin. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I dunno what it is and I have been trying to decipher it for a friend for the last half hour. --67.85.117.190 (talk) 16:20, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

rot13 doesn't work. A hint about context might be helpful. PhGustaf (talk) 16:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Where did it come from? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:25, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

We got nothing else. This was written by a girl he's interested in. --67.85.117.190 (talk) 16:27, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm - Google says "saihf" is "South African Investable Hedge Fund"...quite some girl your friend is interested in! :-) SteveBaker (talk) 17:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

It looks almost Klingon, although that is written with lots of capital letters. --Tango (talk) 18:03, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

The reply is Klaatu barada nikto. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:15, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

What? Seriously? --67.85.117.190 (talk) 18:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

No, not seriously unless the girl looks like this.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:34, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

"gh'agh'a" is apparently a way to transliterate the Greek word for "grandmother". Adam Bishop (talk) 19:19, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

You might have better luck asking this question at the language reference desk.

It does look vaguely like Klingon. Could the original text have included capital letters? Capitalization is very important in Klingon. And is the girl in question a nerd girl?

It doesn’t look like a simple substitution cipher, or a simple substitution cipher with reversal, because the punctuation won’t work. And it’s not any kind of transposition cipher, because the letter frequencies are all wrong. Red Act (talk) 21:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't really look like Klingon, unless it has been transcribed from speech, maybe. Adam Bishop (talk) 23:43, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I guessed Klingon too - but I looked up the words in my Klingon/English dictionary shortly after the question was asked - and NONE of them are in there. There doesn't seem to be enough variation of letter choices for it to be any kind of code. But there would be little point in writing something so indecipherable to someone who you actually wanted to understand you. I kinda suspect it's deliberate gibberish. Perhaps there is more information in the way the letters are written - or what the letter is written on...who knows? SteveBaker (talk) 00:31, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

The character positions look like they fit the pattern for banging fingers on a QWERTY keyboard. I doubt there was an intended meaning. Nimur (talk) 02:10, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

That’s true. Three characters in the text -- the one “i”, the one “e”, and the one “t”, are in the row above the home row. The entire rest of the text consists of characters on the home row. That’s got to be more than a coincidence. It’s gibberish. Red Act (talk) 02:44, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

¶ More than a coincidence, indeed, but hardly gibberish. Once again, Watson, I suspect that you have excelled yourself. Do you recall, perchance, from those sensational but unscientific sketches of yours, The Adventure of the Solitary Cyclist in the spring (I think) of '95?

My friend took the lady's ungloved hand and examined it with as close an attention and as little sentiment as a scientist would show to a specimen.
"You will excuse me, I am sure. It is my business," said he, as he dropped it. "I nearly fell into the error of supposing that you were typewriting. Of course, it is obvious that it is music. You observe the spatulate finger-end, Watson, which is common to both professions? There is a spirituality about the face, however" -- he gently turned it towards the light -- "which the typewriter does not generate. This lady is a musician." [4]

Notice that while most of the letters in question, as you wrote above, are on one row of the typewriter, with but three on the row above, none of them (ZXCVBNM,./) are below that principal row. What would that suggest to your apprehensive, diagnostic mind? If the young lady in question were, perhaps, to apply her refined, spatulate fingertips not to the workaday dactylograph but to the more-suitable keys of a pianoforte, what sound might emerge? Might E, I and T correspond to the black keys and thus furnish a clew as to the correct white keys? —— Shakescene (talk) 23:37, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Using the first online keyboard I got when I googled [5], the notes are something like: D,C,?,A,F / A,D,C,E / A,D,C,D#,A,F / G,F1,A,D,D1,C1,C / G,A,F1,C,G,A,F1,C / A ,F1,D1,C,G. I have no idea if that's a song or not. The question mark is because 'I' didn't correspond to anything. It's right next to 'C#1' though. Emm (talk) 01:17, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Since E, I and T would all have to correspond to a black key, black keys not existing between every pair of white keys limits the E character to corresponding to either an F# or a Bb. Either way, the text played as music is atonal, which makes it extremely unlikely to be a real piece of music. In other words, interpreting the text as music like that just produces musical gibberish. Red Act (talk) 01:29, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

¶ Remember that Holmes himself had to compensate for filling 221B Baker Street with endless hours of tuneless bowing of his violin by playing a medley of Dr. Watsons' favourite numbers!

....When left to himself, however, he would seldom produce any music or attempt any recognized air. Leaning back in his arm-chair of an evening, he would close his eyes and scrape carelessly at the fiddle which was thrown across his knee. Sometimes the chords were sonorous and melancholy. Occasionally they were fantastic and cheerful. Clearly they reflected the thoughts which possessed him, but whether the music aided those thoughts, or whether the playing was simply the result of a whim or fancy was more than I could determine. I might have rebelled against these exasperating solos had it not been that he usually terminated them by playing in quick succession a whole series of my favourite airs as a slight compensation for the trial upon my patience. — A Study in Scarlet, Part I, Chapter 2

—— Shakescene (talk) 04:11, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

English text typed with the Dvorak Simplified Keyboard uses characters on the home row more often than with the QWERTY keyboard. So I checked to make sure the text isn’t as if a DSK typist was typing on a QWERTY keyboard. It isn’t. It still appears to be gibberish. Red Act (talk) 02:54, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Given the context - is it even likely that it was typed? What would this mean on (for example) a phone text-message? Is this someone typing without looking with the phone in the wrong mode? SteveBaker (talk) 13:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

My thought was that if she hands this guy a note like that, then he should switch his interests to someone who's willing to write in English. There are plenty of fishies in the sea. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 08:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the best thing to do would be to ask the person who wrote it. Googlemeister (talk) 13:44, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I highly doubt the message was printed out and handed to the guy – I presume it was just e-mailed or IM'ed. And I’m guessing the girl might even have been in the same room as the guy when she sent that message. I think the message was a means of social acknowledgement, sort of like saying “hey” when you pass someone in the hall. The actual content of a message like that isn’t what’s important, but rather the meta-message of “I think you’re worthy of me communicating with you, and communicating with you is something I enjoy doing.” The message was just misinterpreted as potentially meaning more than it was intended to. And I certainly think that deciding that the girl isn’t worth pursuing just because she sent a meaningless message once is making an awfully hasty judgment based on very little information. There are plenty of fish in the sea, but you’ll never wind up with any of them if you discard all of them over trivial perceived flaws. There isn't one fish in the sea that doesn’t have even the slightest blemish. Red Act (talk) 06:42, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe even the writer sent a random message to try an encourage the receiver to actually have the courage ask or at least IM/e-mail/SMS/whatever back and find out what the writer meant? In which case it sounds like it's the receiver who failed this test, and not the writer Nil Einne (talk) 20:19, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The writer may be thinking about the danger to Grade A eggs during a flight if there is flak,and the need to be quiet, since the message is an anagram of "a a a a a a egg flight shh shh shh sh flak." Edison (talk) 14:55, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

What is a confirmation letter?

Does it simply mean "a letter to confirm something"? 117.0.0.18 (talk) 16:42, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Simply what it says. "Confirm" means to say something really is true. Often after a face-to-face discussion where a decision has been made that decision will be confirmed in a letter so that you have it on paper. --Tango (talk) 18:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Some things that might be confirmed are an apointment, a statement said earlier, that an order or payment has been received, that something assumed is correct, the religious meaning or that a 3rd party vouches for you. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:10, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

In business it may also be called a COYA or "cover your ass letter." This is frequently done, perhaps as a memo of understanding, so that one party to a verbal agreement, or someone who gives verbal instructions, cannot later claim that the other party misremembers the conversation. Edison (talk) 19:28, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Verbal means using words; anything written is verbal. I think you mean oral, though that word may give some gutter-minded folk the giggles. —Tamfang (talk) 21:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

But in the last Edison definition, especially in English Law, don't forget "the battle of the forms", which means that a confirmation letter could have a variation clause printed on the reverse, or be accompanied by another piece of paper bearing the variation clause, which, left unchallenged, would have the effect of incorporating the variation into the contract/agreement/or understanding. And English Courts are loath to subsequently overturn such incorporations when the usurped party realises he has been duped. As we say in Latin, "Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware". 92.23.47.122 (talk) 22:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

That is a part of the game. Things left up in the air at a meeting may be expressly stated in terms favorable to the sender. If carried too far, this may evoke a bad reaction from the recipient: "I don't know what meeting YOU were at, but we never said ....." Edison (talk) 14:44, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

You're so right. I qualified as a Member of the Chartered Institute of Purchasing and Supply many years ago and a large part of the qualification rested on a comprehensive understanding of "English" Contract Law. I am retired now but still use that knowledge when buying domestic and personal items - and usually to my ultimate protection and advantage. But I recall being shown a confirmation or acceptance letter that purported to "accept" an offer that had been made during earlier negotiations. The reverse of the letter was decorated with a beautiful faint blue eagle with outsretched wings that bore no apparent relationship to the "contract" nor even the sender's business. It was only when examined under a fairly strong magnifying glass that the eagle turned out to actually be extremely fine print in faint blue setting out a completely different set of Terms and Conditions from those that had been "agreed" during the negotiations. Left unchallenged, those decorative (and punitive) T's and C's would have been construed as having been accepted by the recipient and would in all likelihood have been well-nigh-impossible to have overturned following acceptance of the letter. Be careful out there. 92.22.200.156 (talk) 19:06, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

That would be trivially unenforceable in a consumer contract, and fairly dubious in a commercial one. This sort of thing (although not usually quite as inventive) comes up reasonably often in uk.legal.moderated. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 23:08, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I've known lawyers (US) to send letters that begin "This is to confirm our conversation of today in which you said ...," summarizing what was said so that it exists in writing. I once heard a criminal defense lawyer recite a confirming letter that he had recently sent to a prosecutor, whose real message was "Your behavior is grossly illegal, and naturally the judge is getting a copy of this." The prosecutor would then, it was hoped, write a clarifying letter saying he was misunderstood and of course he didn't contemplate any such action as described. —Tamfang (talk) 21:55, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Taxi Fare?

Does anyone know approximately the taxi fare from Stansted Airport to central London at about 10.30pm on a weekday? Richard Avery (talk) 18:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

This page says, with strange precision, "A taxi journey into London for one to four people costs about £99, depending on the exact destination." Unless there are several of you, why not get the train - there are services from the airport to Liverpool Street up to 00.30am for a lot less. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 18:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that Andrew, can't quite understand how I missed that page. Richard Avery (talk) 19:43, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Book a car in advance. This site is offering transfers from Stansted to Central London from £45 if paid in advance - [6] - doubtless there are others offering other deals. By contrast std single way fare by train is £19 - if you're not alone the car may well be cheaper/more convenient (which says a lot about how rubbish our trains are). Exxolon (talk) 21:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

break bone and not know?

Is it possible to break a bone and not know that it is broken, say a wrist or an ankle? Googlemeister (talk) 18:49, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Toe is especially easy to break and not know. Also, MMA fighters and boxers will break their hand early in a fight and not realize it till after the fight. --67.85.117.190 (talk) 19:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I know it is possible for things like a toe, I am more interested in a structural bone that has to hold weight. Googlemeister (talk) 19:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

One can have a hairline break in an ankle and have it be called a sprain, even after a doctor has examined it, with the break only disclosed a week later by Xray when it is still sore. But in that case, it was not completely asymptomatic.Edison (talk) 19:25, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Bert Trautmann broke his neck playing football and didn't know an xray three days later. Algebraist 19:42, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

There are newspaper reports of people living for years or decades - sometimes in pain, sometimes not - with a broken neck. 90.195.179.49 (talk) 21:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

A schoolfriend of mine broke his arm badly enough to need substantial metalwork in it, but didn't know it was broken until the following day. He knew something was up, but he really, really wanted to play in a tennis match so didn't see anyone about it. I got roped in to help him work out a one-armed serving technique - needless to say as soon as they saw him try that for real the next day he got hustled off to hospital. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 23:36, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I have heard plenty of similar anecdotes. People usually know they have badly hurt their arm, or whatever, but don't realise it is actually broken until it continues to hurt for a day or two and they think maybe they should get it checked out. --Tango (talk) 01:37, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I once cracked a rib with very little force (I think in flopping down forward on a bed with my hand on it), and didn't know that's what happened until I saw the doctor. —— Shakescene (talk) 05:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

A friend once fought off a mugger by punching the mugger so hard that he broke his hand. He didn't notice until he woke up the following morning, by which time his hand had swollen to almost twice its normal size. I suspect the large amount of alcohol he had drunk had something to do with him not noticing 'til morning. Astronaut (talk) 05:05, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

So it would appear that it would not be likely for someone to break a load bearing structural bone and not know that something is very wrong, even if they are not certain that it is the bone that is broken, or if it might be a bad sprain. Googlemeister (talk) 13:42, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I once heard a story about a man who went into a doctor's office with a persistent limp-turned out he'd been walking with a broken hip for a week or so (Yikes)Library Seraph (talk) 14:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Then there was the one about a guy who went to a doctor saying he hurt all over. He touched himself in various places. "Ouch!" each time. Turned out his finger was broken. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 15:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Racing flags

For the falgs is there such thing as a "brown flag", "orange flag" or "purple flag"? What is white flag usually mean? Is "black flag" usually mean "NO WAY"? Is secure color flag "green flag" Is there such thing as a blue flag? Like Stop light flag warning meaning things is getting dangerous and somebody needs help.--69.229.108.245 (talk) 19:47, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Have you read the article you linked to? It seems pretty thorough to me. --Tango (talk) 20:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

The Racing flags article really does say it all - but to summarize:

• No, there are no brown, orange or purple flags. There is a black flag with an orange circle which means that the car has some kind of mechanical fault which is causing a hazard to other drivers (like it's spewing oil all over the track or something).
• The white flag means that this is the final lap of the race.
• The black flag means that the driver has done something that's against the rules and has been given a penalty.
• The green flag is used to start the race.
• The blue flag is a cautionary flag indicating either that you are driving slowly and there is a fast car approaching you from behind...or that you are driving fast, but there is a very slow car ahead of you. Either way, it's a warning.
• The yellow flag is used for general kinds of warnings. Yellow with red stripes specifically warns of debris on the track.

SteveBaker (talk) 00:21, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

What does this apartment term mean?

What does 1½, 2½, 3½, etc., mean in regards to apartments for rent? HYENASTE 23:22, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

If this is in the US, might it mean number of "bathrooms"? I'm in the UK, but I believe that in the US they use "1½ bath" to mean a property that has one actual bathroom (with a bath and/or shower) and one room containing only a toilet and a basin. I assume it's fairly normal to have exactly one such room in any property of suitable size, with the increasing number of "whole" bathrooms being en-suites to bedrooms. 93.97.184.230 (talk) 23:32, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes. In the US, a proper bathroom - with an actual bath in it counts as '1' - a smaller room with just a toilet and handbasin counts as a "half-bath". So 1½ bathrooms - means that there are two rooms - one with a bath/shower in it, both having toilet/handbasins. There is considerable variability in how people count rooms with a shower but no bath. SteveBaker (talk) 00:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

It could also be number of rooms (small rooms like a bathroom count half). 1½ would be a studio apartment (one big room plus bathroom), 2½ would be a one bedroom (1) flat with combined kitchen/dining room/living room (+1) and a bathroom (+½), etc. In the UK the advert would usually specific what is being counted: "2½ room apartment" or "2 bedroom apartment with 1½ bathrooms" or whatever. --Tango (talk) 01:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

In fact, it could even be counting bedrooms, with a half being a box room (redlink?! wikt:box room will have to do). --Tango (talk) 01:34, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I just created a redirect for box room. Red Act (talk) 02:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers! Considering the pricse and locations, Tango's answer makes the most sense. HYENASTE 03:47, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

All those "1 1/2"s bothered my eye so I changed "1/2" to "½". Hope you don't mind. —Tamfang (talk) 22:00, 10 August 2009 (UTC)