Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 December 28

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December 28

birds

birds fly south in a season, and make nests, eggs ect then fly north for the other 6 months so does this mean that most birds breed twice every year, and live thier lives in eternal summer? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.145.61 (talk) 02:48, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

No, because most of them don't cross the tropics; their winter and summer territories often overlap. —Tamfang (talk) 04:56, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

i dont understand please elaborate —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.145.61 (talk) 15:45, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Take the American Robin as an example of a typical migratory bird. This map is a picture of the robin's range. The robin spends the summers in the yellow and green areas (Canada and the US), nesting and laying eggs. When winter comes, the robins fly south, to the blue and green areas (Mexico and the southern US). They don't go all the way to the southern hemisphere; the southern most robins stop in Central America. Robins only breed in April to July, so during the winter they're just "hanging out", fattening themselves up on the food available in the relative warmth of Mexico. Note, however, the large green area of year-round occupancy, which extends into Minnesota and Montana - hardly "eternal summer" there. For more examples, take a look at Bird_migration#Long-distance_migration - most birds don't migrate very far. There are some, however, which do swap hemispheres. The Bar-tailed Godwit, for example, migrates from Alaska to New Zealand each year. Note, however, that they only breed in the Northern Hemisphere, and don't lay eggs when they're in the Southern Hemisphere. -- 128.104.112.113 (talk) 20:23, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

That map is out of date. Robins have been extending their winter range northward, to the point where they are now overwintering in eastern Massachusetts, something I don't recall seeing even ten years ago. My understanding is that the robins that winter here are not the same ones that live here in the summer. In the spring, the winter robins will fly north into Canada and be replaced by robins who spent the winter farther south. So, the Canadian robins spend their life in eternal chilly weather: southern New England in winter, subarctic Canada in summer. Marco polo (talk) 03:42, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I presume the OP means a bird such as the Swallow, which spends April - end August in the UK, then migrates to South Africa which means that it spends its whole life in summer? As far as I can recall they don't actually breed in South Africa but in the UK. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:30, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

To echo 128. the birds that come to the Arctic do so for the express purpose of breeding rather than breeding in the south. I believe that this is due to the lower number of predators. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 14:12, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

The OP may be interested in the arctic tern which flits back and forth between the arctic and Antarctica, so that it summers in both areas. Since those areas get 24 hours of sunshine in (at least some of) the summer, the arctic tern apparently sees more daylight than any other animal. Matt Deres (talk) 00:55, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

shitty xmas

i got no phone calls, presents or invites this year, is this normal as you get older, that people expect you to already have plans and people to give gifts to or is it just me, i only gave one present this year, and the person stood me up on the day anyway. is it normal for people to get nothing, not even a call from his mom? age 26 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.145.61 (talk) 02:54, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

First, sorry for the bad Christmas, and I hope it will get better in due time.

Second, to answer your question, it kinda depends where you're from. In the Philippines, where all aspects of Christmas form a very strong (and sadly rigid) tradition, people don't expect gifts from you when you're young, but as you grow older, and especially as you become an adult, there will come a time where you will need to have plans and need to give gifts as you become less and less dependent on your parents. I can't really answer for other places (except maybe the U.S., but I'm not so sure about that), but hope this helps. --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 03:44, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Might I suggest you take the lead ? Call your Mom. Invite people over to your place for dinner. Put up a tree and decorations. Give out gifts. It's too late for Xmas this year, but how about doing this for New Year's Day. That's exactly what I did. You will find that people reciprocate. On the other hand, if you never do this type of thing, they likely think you're not the type who cares about Xmas traditions, so leave you out of their plans. StuRat (talk) 06:02, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

That likewise depends on the circumstances. Just because you don't have your own Christmas party or give people presents does not necessarily mean that you don't care about Christmas in general. If there was (or if you're in) some extraordinary circumstance, then people may understand why you don't celebrate Christmas, and they may console by including you in their celebrations. However, if you feel you're being excluded, then take the lead and include yourself in the season by celebrating it yourself, and don't be afraid to invite others so they can join in the fun. --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 06:30, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I think Christmas does get worse as one gets older. For me, bad things happen around Christmas - terminal illness of family members, car crashes, finding neighbours dead, you get the picture - and so each year it's a real effort to put decorations up and buy presents. But it's really important that the effort is made. I'll leave the "why?" for you to decide.

What you might want to consider next year is offering your services as a volunteer to one of the shelters for homeless people in your area. There's nothing like a bit of selfless giving to make you appreciate what you have a bit more. If I hadn't had the UK's cold this year I might have done so myself, family or no family. --TammyMoet (talk) 09:41, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Why are you expecting a call from your mother? Why are you waiting for invites? It seems tome your problem is you're waiting for others when you should be acting yourself. Call your mother. Ask people what they're doing for christmas or even consider throwing something yourself. I think the one thing that is normal is that as you get older, you do have to take greater responsibility for your life but really this should have began before 26. Maybe your mother thinks your too busy for her and so do your friends because your waiting for them? Nil Einne (talk) 11:03, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Maybe he's afraid to take the lead for fear of failing to impress his peers or family. There are many reasons as to why someone can fail to act. It's all a matter of perception. --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 14:08, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

this is th OP, i did make plans, but when it came to the day, the people i had plans with stood me up and went to see other friends instead. i did not get a single card. real nice, boosts my view of humanity. all i need now is a kick in the balls —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.145.61 (talk) 15:47, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Ouch! That must really hurt. Anyway, were they aware that you had plans? Did it conflict with their prior commitments? Maybe they forgot. Regardless, don't blame yourself. Yeah, as you grow older, Christmas begins to suck big-time, but make the best out of it. Think positive. Try talking to them about it or something. --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 16:04, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

we had plans since late Nov, but then on boxing day they phoned me ans said oh, yeah sorry, but "bob" called and i went there instead, oh thanks for the present, sorry we didnt get you anything. its not that i want presents, i just want to know that some one loves me and cares. well, you know what they say, suicide is an option, and then they'll regret leaving me out of all the fun, 1 i hide my depression well, 2 a few different groups of my friends got together and even though they knew i was alone watching tv, eating a meal for one, they did not invite me. or even wish me happy xmas. sothis might be waht they call a cry for help, but fuck em theyll, regret it when i am dead, if they notice.

Uhh...well, this will be hard to solve. It seems that you were stood up, and that seems quite complicated to solve. I would normally invoke "forgive and forget" in this case, since if you reminded them about your plans, they should feel a little bit of guilt. Please do not kil yourself to make a point. By the way, Wikipedia isn't a suicide hotline (or is it?) ;) --Sky Harbor ^(talk) 17:38, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

If you're depressed to the point of being suicidal, seek medical attention. (I originally wrote a longer response to this, but I deleted it without posting it, because, frankly, the chances of you taking it the wrong way are astronomical. Seriously, call a doctor. I can't guarantee that it'll fix everything, but if you really are that depressed, I can pretty much guarantee that it's not just gonna sort itself out.) -- Captain Disdain (talk) 03:03, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

It might merely be a statistical coincidence that they all canceled. Let's say any given guest (or family) has a 50% chance of canceling and you invited 3 families. If the chances of each canceling are an independent event, then that would give you a 0.5³ or 0.125 chance that all 3 families will cancel. That's a 1 in 8 chance, so you could expect this to happen every 8 years, on average.

Now for some advice: after the last person/family canceled on you, try to get yourself invited to wherever they were going, or to one of the other events. Also, if you live near home, ask your Mom if she would mind one more guest. StuRat (talk) 11:35, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

The way I'd deal with this is to make heaps of plans, throw heaps of parties and don't invite any of the people who stood you up. This will allow you to cheer up and make new friends while making a point to the old ones about ditching you. The reason they stood you up probably wasn't personal. Some friends are shitty and only care about themselves and will drop everything with you when they think they've got a better offer. You don't need them, show them what it feels like to be ditched. --Candy-Panda (talk) 06:45, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

There certainly are valid reasons for missing an event you said you'd attend, like sickness. However, it sounds like your friends pretty much said "We were invited to another event we'd rather attend", which makes them disloyal friends who don't keep their promises. At least they're honest about it. Still, I agree that you should find some better friends. StuRat (talk) 16:13, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

did I see a fox?

Recently I saw an unfamiliar animal trot across the street here. It had short legs like a cat, a long thick black-tipped tail, and a face that (twenty yards away in dim light) looked to me like a coyote's. Are there foxes in these hills? —Tamfang (talk) 04:55, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

yeah, probably lives on the golf course —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.145.61 (talk) 05:13, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Quite possibly. They're more common than you might think, but normally keep hidden. StuRat (talk) 06:08, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Almost certainly a Gray Fox. They control the bunny population. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 08:31, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

It must be working, because I haven't seen a Playboy Bunny in years. StuRat (talk) 14:28, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

But have you seen a foxy chick? —Tamfang (talk) 08:00, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I saw one or two foxes while hiking when I lived in the Bay Area. So they definitely live there, especially in the open spaces. Gray fox looks right. Marco polo (talk) 03:39, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Bigamy

OK, keep your hair on, this is NOT a request for legal advice, just a general question! How come the crime of bigamy is so universally enforced? It seems (to me anyway) that no matter where someone is married, no matter how far out of the way it is or how different the laws may be, bigamy still seems to apply if you become married again, even if it is a different country to the one where the original marriage took place. Is the state of marriage a "universal" concept of law? Is anyone aware of a country whose marriage laws would NOT apply in the case of bigamy? Thanks everyone!! 121.44.151.254 (talk) 10:28, 28 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.151.254 (talk) 10:27, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

You seem to be confusing two concepts here. If a country recognises another countries marriages and it has laws on bigamy then clearly those laws will come into play if someone tries to/does re-marry. International recognition of marriages and local bigamy laws are largely, AFAIK, seperate concepts. There may be some cases where bigamy comes into play even if the marriage is not locally recognised but I think this is rare. Nil Einne (talk) 11:00, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Bigamy is not universally outlawed. For example, in certain Islamic countries (such as Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Malaysia) having multiple (official) wives may allowed, given certain restrictions. (I was hoping to find more details in the article Polygyny in Islam, such as the exact legal situation and the relevant limitations, but details on the official situation are rather slim.) If someone enters into a plural marriage where it is legal, and then moves to a location where it is not, our Polygamy#Legal situation article says "Polygamists may find it harder dealing with government agencies, such as obtaining legal immigrant status." I think that most countries have laws allowing them to deny entry to "people of poor moral character", and may view polygamists as such. If you are talking about marrying in country A, then moving (without your spouse) to country B and then trying to get married to a different person there, it's local laws that apply. Most countries recognize marriages performed in other countries (I'm not sure if there is a treaty which covers this). Thus if you get married elsewhere and move to the US (for example), the US usually recognizes the foreign marriage. Since in the eyes of the US you are already married, trying to get married to someone else falls afoul of the US bigamy laws. On the other hand, if you got married in the US and then moved to some place where polygamy is legal (e.g. Saudi Arabia/Malaysia), it is unlikely that Saudi Arabia/Malaysia would object to you marrying an additional spouse, provided that you met all the other conditions for polygamy in Saudi Arabia/Malaysia which may be hard for an immigrant to do. The fact that all types of polygamy are illegal in the US doesn't enter into it - it's the local laws which apply. Note, however, that if you then decided to go back to the US, the US may object to you being a polygamist on the grounds of US laws, even though your marriage was legal when and where you got it. -- 128.104.112.113 (talk) 20:06, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Do I remember right that the bigamy law in Venezuela (or possibly Colombia) was repealed on the theory that bigamy is its own punishment? —Tamfang (talk) 22:48, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Bigamy is the state of having one spouse too many. Monogamy is the same. BrainyBabe (talk) 12:17, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Also, it is worth pointing out that Islam and certain other legal systems, under certain restrictions, allow polygyny. They do not, and very few places do, allow polyandry. You might get better info from one of the modern polyamory groups that exist. BrainyBabe (talk) 12:19, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Borland C++

Hi,

Can i know how to get a print out of the executed file created by borland C++. What is the header file and the command? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.124.160.216 (talk) 14:05, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

• Firstly, you're asking the question in the wrong section of the reference desk, the Computing desk would have been a better choice, and I suggest you add a note here that the question has been moved, and repost the question there.
• Secondly, I suggest that you add more information when reposting. I've compiled many a C++ program, with Borland's compilers and others, but don't understand the question. Are you asking how to decompile a program that has been compiled with a Borland C++ compiler? Do you have access to the source code? What information do you have access to, and what information, in what format, is it that you are trying to obtain? --NorwegianBlue ^talk 21:48, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I see that the question now has been asked on the computing desk, so further answers should go there. --NorwegianBlue ^talk 22:26, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Unexplored coasts

What are several of the most unexplored coasts in the world that aren't under constantly cold conditions? Thankyou —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.111.102.250 (talk) 14:22, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Honestly, I seriously doubt that there are any. Coasts are where boats go and where cities are. If there were a non-cold coast that was unexplored, it would be ridiculously easy to explore it. Just go there with a dinghy or something. If you're counting rivers, I'm guessing some of the rivers connecting to the Amazon in South America. Ridiculous amounts of jungle. Belisarius (talk) 20:18, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

It depends what you mean by unexplored. Pretty much everything has been digitally mapped by satellite, but a lot of the world has not been visiting by anyone who has written a book about it. Can you count the 2004 Congo River journey by TIm Butcher as "exploration"? His book, Blood River (2007), reads like exploration. BrainyBabe (talk) 12:33, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Many of the islands in the Arctic will have coasts that have never had boats sail around them. And while the Arctic is cold now, −39 °C (−38 °F) here, it can reach 20 °C (68 °F) and higher in the summer so it's not "constantly cold". CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 13:58, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

camp fire

how do you "bank" a fire so that it will burn all night without being tended, yet have flames throughout to scare off wildlife. this theory can be seen in the earth's children series, but the technique is not discussed, please help —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.145.61 (talk) 15:44, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm not an expert, but I don't think this is possible. If I was trying to make a campfire stay alight overnight so that I could build it up the next morning without starting from scratch, I'd be trying to make sure there were *no* flames, just a little airflow to ensure it kept smouldering. A fire with large, animal-scaring flames is burning quickly, and will only keep going if fed with fuel. I hadn't heard of Earth's Children before, but the article on it starts "Earth's Children is a series of historical fiction novels". The bold emphasis is mine, and I think is the salient point here. PeteVerdon (talk) 22:05, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

As a purely practical matter, if you need a fire to keep away predators, then you should also either post a watch or be prepared to sleep very lightly, if at all. Feeding a fire is a good way for the posted watch to keep usefully busy and thus awake. We bank a wood stove overnight so that it provides embers in the morning and continuous, low heat all night. Flames in this case are the sign of improper banking as PeteVerdon has written above. ៛ Bielle (talk) 03:18, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

This method wouldn't protect the flames, but rather the heat (like Pete mentions above). I've seen the SurvivorMan Les Stroud use dried cow patties (cow poop) to capture the heat and keep smoldering all night. If you kept some dried grasses nearby (not TOO nearby) you could probably get the fire going in less than 20 seconds. It wouldn't be a constant guard against animals though, just a one time "scare them away!" tool NByz (talk) 10:16, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Large logs will smolder for long periods of time, so use one of those then restart the flame by adding on grass or pine straw to rebuild the fire proper the next morning.--droptone (talk) 17:46, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the previous answers that a fire with large flames will not last all night, untended. However, I can think fo two exceptions:

1) A truly massive fire. There the oxygen is used up in the perimeter flames and the interior can't burn up until later.

2) An automatic continuous fuel supply. This would work best with a liquid, such as oil, which is fed by gravity. It could pour out of a small nonflammable metal tube into a nonflammable bowl. StuRat (talk) 20:37, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Try a lantern. Phil_burnstein (talk) 05:30, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

"Banking" a fire means to cover the coals or embers with ashes or cinders with a layer that is deep enough to slow the burning of the fuel, but light enough to allow oxygen to feed the combustion. In other words, you're not looking for an all-night flame, but an all-night burn, leaving you with coals that will still be hot enough to quickly restart a fire in the morning. 152.16.59.190 (talk) 06:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

out-of-copyright movies

Hi, I'm looking for a list of films that have fallen out of copyright or high quality torrents for them. Everything I found on google leads to nowhere. Thank you. Keria (talk) 16:08, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

There is a ton of stuff at the Internet Archive. And, we even have an article on it. --Milkbreath (talk) 16:18, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Guitar Hero World Tour drum kit

Does anyone know if you can learn to play drums (at least to some degree) with the Guitar Hero World Tour drum kit? When I say 'learn to play drums' I don't mean become the next Phil Collins or John Bohnam, but have some real drumming skills such as timing or something? BTW, I'm referring to the Guitar Hero drum kit and not the Rock Band drum kit because the Guitar Hero drum kit seems more realistic since it has cymbals. 67.184.14.87 (talk) 16:54, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

yes, this is basically a beginner electric drum kit and can teach you the basics. but dont expect much, it will take practice, skill, technique and a proper drum kit to be even moderately decent.

You can learn about staying on a rhythm using a digital tool like that for sure. This skill is universally useful for any instrument. And the drums are the one instrument in that game that make it almost possible for each "hit of the drum" to actually correspond 1:1 to a "note" in the song (at least compared to a 'basic' drumset - most professional drummers will have more than four things to strike). This means that - if you learn to play without watching the screen, just listening to the music, pretending each pad represents a specific drum or cymbal - you can improve your memory. I think most people learn to play those games by responding to visual cues, not memory cues. These are completely different processes.

As for things that it wouldn't help with:

1) Bandleading: The drums are expected to lead the rhythm of the band, with the bass, rhythm and lead instruments following (in that order). Playing along with a game like that will teach you to follow, not to lead.

2) Dynamics and Quality: Dynamics means controlling how "loud" you are, and by Quality, I mean controlling how good each strike sounds. This is especially difficult on the big cymbals and requires that you accustom yourself to hitting each type of drum/cymbal differently. The game won't help with this (and may actually give you the bad habit of hitting each note in the exact same place, with the same part of the drumstick, and with the same velocity)

3) Playing Quickly: The pads just don't have the response of an analog instrument. You'll never be able to practice quick runs on the same drum.

4) Improvising: This is where new music ideas come from. Later on, when you jam with friends, they'll expect you to come up with your own patterns and respond to their ideas. The game doesn't help with this.

5) The high hat: There is a special skill to getting used to how the high-hat operates, and getting good at including it in drum patterns involving the snare. I notice that the world tour drum kit only has one foot pedal.

Now for my personal opinion: These games exist to help people avoid the frustration and time commitment of learning a real instrument. They don't act as a very good substitute for practicing. The primary skill that they develop is around pressing a button when something on the screen happens. My friends that are good at - and enjoy - these games tend to be the same people who enjoyed the other arcade-style console games (like "fusion frenzy") that, for the most part, use basic skills like this. There isn't very much in music that uses this skill, except maybe sight-reading musical notation. Even then, you have to develop the instrument-specific skills first.NByz (talk) 10:11, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

The Rock Band drumset is actually a good deal more realistic than the GH one, despite having less pads. For instance, when playing the disco drum beat in Everlong, a real drummer would play the high-hat seven times and the snare once, and on any normal right-handed drum set that would entail going from the far left to the middle left. It's naturally more comfortable for ninety percent of the population and is the easiest way to play it. In World Tour, it goes from the middle left to the far left, which is backwards and awkward to play. You're expected to lead with your left hand and bring one stick down and to the far left somehow to hit the snare, and it just doesn't feel "right". Neversoft has never gotten note charting right, and Harmonix is especially good at retaining how a song was originally played (I can do the bass to Everlong in RB2 with my eyes closed despite having only seen it once or twice because it's actually the same pattern as real bass). As for teaching you how to play drums in general, yes, music games can do that to an extent... It certainly helps staying in time and understanding the basic concept of a drum beat. Heck, you can sometimes play along with songs and then transfer it over to real drums. It only really works if the drummer is using a pretty basic set, but it's possible.

As for the comment above mine, I disagree. One of the fundamental parts of music is understanding rhythm, and music games can really help with that. They're also good for developing dexterity and the physical prowess needed for the real thing. Obviously they don't teach you enough to be a real musician, but it definitely doesn't hurt. --69.146.230.243 (talk) 12:07, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm the OP on a different computer. I already play piano and have tried guitar and I can say that playing guitar on Guitar Hero is nothing like the real thing. (When I tried learning real guitar, I found it was harder than I thought. You really have to press on the strings pretty hard, plus my fingers kept accidentally touch the other strings.) I only play Guitar Hero on the easy mode because with all that time and effort it would take to play on advanced mode, I might as well learn to play a real guitar. One comment I have is that I agree with "The primary skill that they develop is around pressing a button when something on the screen happens". When I play Guitar Hero, I have absolutely no idea what notes I'm playing or what chord the band is playing, and without that critical information, you really aren't learning anything. I'm simply reacting to the buttons on the screen. I'll look into Rock Band's drumset more closely. 216.239.234.196 (talk) 17:33, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Would something like this [1] help in learning to play drums? 216.239.234.196 (talk) 20:59, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Who's in the wrong? And how to solve the problem.

My sister got married to a Jewish guy. Great. No problem there. But, I am South African, so although he and his family know me very little, they know my sister well, and I would hope they would expect our values and morals to be similar, and they are, being siblings. But they assume I am racist just because of my background, or some other reason, and actively say things to me when she is not around, such as: I happened to get a hair cut in a neat, manageable military style, and one of them said to me I look like an SS soldier and that I should fuck off back to Germany. I have never been to Germany, nor am I a Nazi. On a seperate occasion I was reading Dora the explorer to my nephew, getting him to count the number of trees in the Brazilian rain forest picture, for instance, and when Dora got to Africa one of them asked me, as if i was the child being read to: "How many Niggers are there?" But they are very sneaky about this and always do it when my sister is not around or change the subject entirely as soon as she appears, they also stick together, so even when I do try to say something, they all deny it happened, or openly accuse me of being a Nazi, saying that they would never use the N word in ANY context because they are Jewish and know more about racism than I (I doubt this as I am South African) So, is it just me, should i change what i wear, and how i look, fake a different accent? Change my religion? I am not racist, and have other friends who are Jewish, and of many other diverse cultures. I don't mean to sound antisemitic, and don't want to be, but they are ruining my relationship with my sister, who due to only hearing my side and their lies, seems to think it is me who is in the wrong. Or am I actually in the wrong? Should I join White Pride World Wide? Or just sit back and take it? Cut ties with my sister and her beautiful children? Once again, I am NOT antisemitic but if this continues I may soon start to understand what Hitler was talking about. I have also tried sitting down and calmly telling them of my beliefs and mortals and that I could be a wonderful addition (if removed by marriage) to their family if given the chance to. But they will not even speak to me on any one subject without calling another member to help insult me. It is not my fault that I was born in a country with racist laws, in fact I helped in a small way to reform my counties ways. Why do they hate me? They treat my mother in the same way saying things like: "Let me hold the baby, you will just drop it, in fact, we don't want you holding OUR baby at all."

It isn't anything to do with their being Jewish, there is a uniform percentage of eejits everywhere. I'm afraid you'll just have to confront it. But a tape recorder and hide it recording everything. Do not try leading them into anything, avoid it if possible. Take the machine away afterwards and listen to it. If what is being said is unacceptable to you play it to your sister. This is not a nice thing to do but it will ensure it is all out in the open and has to be dealt with. Dmcq (talk) 19:07, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree, this has nothing to do with being from south africa or being jewish, this is all about them being assholes. The way I see it, you have three options: take it, or confront them. They're not going to stop of their own volition, so either you sit down and take it for the rest of your life, or you say to them "Hey, listen up! I'm not a racist, I've never been a racist, I've never looked down on anyone because of their ancestry. I will not sit here idly while you imply that I do. In fact, it's you people who are looking down on me because of my ancestry. Knock it off."

If it was me, I'd just cut them out of my life. These people are poisonous. Continue your relationship with your sister and her husband, but don't attend functions with those other people if you can avoid it. You don't need it. Belisarius (talk) 20:25, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

In your shoes I'd say quietly: "I've never considered myself Antisemitic, but if you keep up your efforts I just might. Is that what you want?" —Tamfang (talk) 22:56, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

The family's Jewishness is really irrelevant to the situation. It is a fairly common thing, in my experience over the years, for one marriage partner (and or his or her family) to try estrange the other marriage partner from his or her family. What happens is that one side of the marriage wants their family to have exclusive rights to the couple and their offspring. Sadly, there may not be much you can do about it. You should let your sister know what you have experienced, but she may be under pressure from her spouse to side with his family or to "choose between" her spouse and her family of origin. You may need to give up on finding acceptance from your sister's in-laws and resign yourself to less contact with your sister. I must say that I think that Tamfang's proposed comment would probably only make matters worse. Commenting on the family's Jewishness would only strengthen their case that you are a racist. Marco polo (talk) 03:33, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Er, as I read it they're rubbing his nose in their Jewishness, so he wouldn't be introducing the subject. Though on second thought I like Belisarii angle better, perhaps with a twist: "Given how much ethnic persecution seems to be on your mind, I'd think you'd be a little less quick with the stereotypes." —Tamfang (talk) 08:06, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Has your brother-in-law ever said anything or is it just his family. If he's not said anything then is it possible a quiet talk with him might help? What about the rest of your family have they ever said anything to them as well? CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 13:50, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

And if it does come down to fighting it out, find out what their position is on Palestinians. Chances are they have some rather racist attitudes towards that group. If so, whenever they claim you are a racist for being from SA, just bring that up. Hopefully they will see this coming next time and not accuse you of being a racist. StuRat (talk) 20:27, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Dispute resolution Conflict resolution. If I may interject some personal opinion, it is the natural tendency to want to "win" a conflict - this is often counter-productive, unless you intend to dominate the other people (a difficult and tenuous proposition at best). Instead, intentionally "lose" conflicts and gird yourself for loss - there will be some poetic justice in this, as it is the traditional Jewish way - to endure. After all, eventually, Yahweh redeems his chosen. Alternatively, you could engage them on Judaism - the mitzvah article may be fruitful ground for things to inquire about. 98.169.163.20 (talk) 07:25, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

WAR

What are the implications if India decides to invade pakistan and there is a war.does it ensures the world would than be divided into two, one with pak(islamic world maybe) and the rest against them.would this probably lead to a third world war? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.122.36.6 (talk) 17:29, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, we're not really a crystal ball, but world war three will likely be the last world war, because it will be fought with nukes, and after that there won't be anyone left to fight with. Would an India/Pakistan conflict touch off a world war? Who knows. Either way, we should hope it never comes to that. -mattbuck (Talk) 17:49, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I would say that the risk of that happening is vanishingly small. Quite right, a world war involving nukes (and more than one country holding them) would very possibly wreak havoc on humanity, possibly to the point of extinction. That's the bad part. But you are forgetting the good part! You know, MAD! Neither India or Pakistan are insane enough to even consider using nukes against the other, and they would extremely unwilling to even go into a full-scale conventional war because of them. And if they did, the entire world would do everything in their power to intervene and stop it before it goes to far. Every other super-power (the US, China, Russia, the EU) would do everything in their power to stop it from happening. The whole "humanity-is-coming-to-an-end-like-tomorrow"-thing tends to get people on the same page. Belisarius (talk) 19:24, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

That reminds me of a quote from Albert Einstein. He was writing to President Truman, expressing his concerns about warfare with nuclear weapons:

I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -- (From wikiquote).

It's very difficult to predict the outcome of a political process, and even more difficult to predict the outcome of a war. The volunteers here at the Reference Desk are no more qualified to answer your question than anyone else; though I imagine that someone can probably find some apocalyptic science fiction writing that would be on point. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:14, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I can't see why many other countries would want to become involved. The United States and United Kingdom have tried to maintain good relations and even to form alliances with both India and Pakistan. Surely they and the European Union, whose main concern is trade relations, would work to defuse the situation and to get Pakistan and India to negotiate peace. Neither Russia nor China would have much to gain by supporting either party. Russia does not want more instability in the Islamic lands on its southern doorstep. China has sometimes supported Pakistan in the past as a counterbalance to its rival, India, but in the end would probably prefer for India to remain a viable threat to Pakistan to serve as a focus for Islamic militants in South Asia, since these might otherwise redirect their efforts to opposing Chinese rule in historically Muslim East Turkistan (Xinjiang). It is really hard to imagine most of the world lining up behind either India or Pakistan rather than urging both countries to end any conflict. Marco polo (talk) 03:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

When two nuclear powers hate each other, like the US and former Soviet Union, you rarely get a hot war between the two, but rather a cold war with an occasional proxy war in a smaller nation, such as the Bangladesh war for independence. That proxy war happened before they were nuclear powers, but I'd expect similar proxy wars in the future, perhaps in Sri Lanka. StuRat (talk) 20:16, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

"You rarely get a hot war"—I think you've got a pretty low sample size, no? I mean, the Cold War is sort of n=1, no? --98.217.8.46 (talk) 17:58, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, Pakistan and India have both had nukes for a few years now with no hot war. Pakistan and Israel could use nukes on each other, but don't. Same for China and the Soviet Union, who were once enemies, and China and the US, similarly. Other pairs of traditional enemies also have nukes, but have not had a war between them since this became the case. StuRat (talk) 04:04, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Both nations obviously realise that using a nuclear weapon unilaterally against the other would be a "game over" kind of event for them. The condemnation from the rest of the world - and the possible retaliation would be utterly crippling to them. Nuclear weapons are effective against large ground targets - but countries like the major European nations, the US and others could quite safely pound them into the dark ages with conventional bombing from the air from bases far beyond the range of the missiles those countries own. You can't take down an F18 with a half-kiloton bomb! That kind of retaliation for the unilateral deployment of a nuclear weapon would be rather likely - if only in the minds of possible perpetrators. The only possible way either nation could benefit from a nuclear weapon launch would be if they were totally overrun - their military in tatters with no chance of continuing - then it might be a viable 'last ditch' weapon. So the effect of these weapons is to deter full-scale conventional war. Nobody with half a brain is going to nuke a city over border skirmishes and risk having one of their own cities nuked in retaliation.

However, I could imagine (say) North Korea using a nuke - their government are quite crazy - they care absolutely nothing whatever for their people and might well stay in a nice comfy bunker and launch one for some kind of muscle-flexing kind of reason - but India and Pakistan are just not that kind of country. What's much more likely is a gradual escalation into larger and larger non-nuclear confrontation - from which both sides must ultimately back down without really achieving very much. SteveBaker (talk) 00:44, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

missing members from Basketball Hall of Fame

Hi, I just linked to the list of members from today's main page, and was astounded to find people like Michael Jordan missing. Am I missing the point here? Is there more than one hall of fame? Will MJ eventually make the list? Sandman30s (talk) 18:13, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

According to Basketball Hall of Fame, "to be considered for induction by a screening committee, a player must be fully retired from play for at least five years." By my calculations, that means Jordan should be eligible for induction next year. Deor (talk) 18:34, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Modifying Facial Structure

Assuming no external injuries, is one's facial structure entirely determined by genetics? When one performs weight-bearing exercises, the muscle tugs on the bones and stimulates them to grow and strengthen. Can the same apply to the bones in the face? If one smiles a lot, will that alter one's facial structure as one ages compared to if one did not smile? Acceptable (talk) 21:06, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

One's facial structure is surely determined by extra-genetic factors. Some diseases, acromegaly being the best example that comes to mind, have a large impact on facial structure, yet are only partially, if at all, genetically determined. --NorwegianBlue ^talk 21:28, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I would say that your facial structure could easily change over the years according to many factors, just not a great deal. You sometimes see identical twins that have developed slightly different features over time.91.111.67.44 (talk) 00:16, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

You do? Aside from physical damage, why would the features of identical twins develop differently over time, I wonder? Do you have a source or even a link to some photos on this? Thanks ៛ Bielle (talk) 06:11, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Climatic conditions, large weight gain/loss and smoking are three things that I can think of that could cause identical twins to develop differently over time. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 13:40, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

This link looks at examples and has images. I admit they're not huge but I can imagine more extreme examples.91.111.67.44 (talk) 23:31, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Cellphone's tap check by myself

Is there any way (especially simplest) to check whether my cellphone is tapped so that the tapper(s) wouldn't guess? 80.69.57.150 (talk) 22:11, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

No. Seriously, this just isn't possible. It's all in software (whether you're talking about someone listening in en-route or having modified your phone) and someone with the necessary access and skills to make modifications in order to listen can certainly make other modifications to cover their tracks. As a normal customer with a normal phone you have no chance of discovering such modifications. PeteVerdon (talk) 23:04, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Unlike a land line, which requires a physical device to be placed on your phone-lines, and thus could be detectable with the right equipment, someone tapping your cell-phone can do so by something akin to Phone cloning, whereby they simply passively grab and decode the signals intended for your phone out of the air. Knowing that someone was listing in on your cell phone conversations would be exactly like knowing, when listening to your favorite radio station, that someone else out in the world just tuned in that station. Its an impossibility. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:10, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmm but I suppose you could encrypt the signal somehow which would mean no one could decipher the message without a key... I guess that's not what he's asking though. TastyCakes (talk) 04:41, 29 December 2008 (UTC)