Miscellaneous desk
< July 11	<< Jun \| July \| Aug >>	July 13 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

July 12

Bananas

How long can I keep bananas in the frig before they would get too brown? I know that if you freeze them they turn black almost.

Unripe bananas should not be stored in the fridge. Ripe bananas up to one week, according to Banana#Storage. DuncanHill 00:24, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Forever, if you cover them in those little oval stickers. --TotoBaggins 20:10, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't ever store nanners in the fridge, they turn black. But, perhaps your fridge is warmer than mine. StuRat 01:33, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Food safety after a power outage

The power was out here for about two and a half hours. How do I tell if the food in the refrigerator is still good? I know the food in the freezer is good: since the ice cubes and the ice cream are still frozen solid, it never got up above freezing. Is there some way I can tell how warm the refrigerator got?

I presume that stuff like hard cheeses and vegetables are still good even if the refrigerator warmed up, but how well do the following survive a few hours of warm temperatures?

Eggs
Ketchup
Salsa
Still-sealed package of sliced meat
Milk
Fruit juice
Butter
Margerine
Salad dressing

Thanks, --67.185.172.158 02:18, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you didn't open the door during those two and a half hours, everything should be OK. Ketchup, Salsa and most salad dressings don't even need to be refrigerated. It'll be fine. SteveBaker 02:27, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eggs by themselves do not need refrigeration (unless you're in a very hot climate), butter would last for a reasonably long time (like other vegetable oil etc.), ketchup doesn't REQUIRE refrigeration also (I just leave it in the pantry, although the climate is quite cold in here). For the other stuff it takes less time to go bad but 2 and a half hours shouldn't raise the temperature to say 10 degrees inside, unless you have bad insulation. I would still eat all the things above but just try a little bit of it before you gobble the whole thing down. --antilived^{T | C | G} 02:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(ec x 2) Most things would be fine (although I'm not completely sure what "salsa" is made of). Salad dressings are actually one of the few things that could be a problem, since some contain raw eggs. But unless the salad dressing contains raw eggs, you should be okay. Oh! Also any cracked eggs should be discarded. Other than that, you'd be fine. --Charlene 02:33, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just a nit pick, but last time I checked butter wasn't a vegetable oil. Aaadddaaammm 08:14, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I recently sold some of our chicken's eggs to a new client down the road. When talking to her, she asked about how we kept them. I thought this a strange question as I've always just kept eggs in the fridge. She mentioned that when she lived in Ireland that the people she knew kept their eggs out on the counter and not in the fridge. I'd never heard of this but she said it was fairly common there. So, my point is that your eggs should be fine. Dismas|^(talk) 09:02, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Same here in Scotland Dismas, eggs are kept on the counter, although my wife insists that they are kept in the fridge at home (in the dimpled holder provided) Perry-mankster 09:14, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to intrude on this thread for a language point, but Perry-mankster's wording was curious, to me. "my wife insists that they are kept in the fridge". OK, don't you know? Can't you go and check, or do you just have a theoretical argument on this point? I, as an American, would have said, "my wife insists that they be kept in the fridge." :) Corvus cornix 22:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, this is a difference between British and American English. In American English, verbs of command followed by a "that" clause take the subjunctive. So when we see the indicative in "she insists that they are kept there", it seems to mean that "insists" must not be a verb of command; and thus the sentence comes across as if she is insisting that it is true that they are kept there. In British English, Perry expressed it in the normal way. --Anonymous, July 14, 2007, 00:33 (UTC).

Eggs are typically stored at ambient temperature (room temperature) during the packing/transport/retail phases, but (in the EU at least) will have an instruction on the box to "keep refrigerated". In my experience eggs cook better when they are at room temperature rather than refrigerated, and will last for months with no ill-effects (other than becoming rather bland and watery) at room temperature. This is based on living in Britain. I know that in 1941, some people in Britain were eating eggs which had been laid in 1939 and stored in isinglass with no refrigeration. DuncanHill 10:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I've always found storing eggs in the fridge to be rather strange. Perhaps if you lived someone warmer, but Britain? I could understand one friend doing it, since she caught salmonella once and had a fear of doing so again, but they always just seemed one of those cupboard foods, like flour. You'll generally know if an egg has gone off, because it will smell foul when you crack it. Eggs are rarely refrigerated in supermarkets. (This is not medical advice. If you become ill because you believed anything I said, you were insufficiently cautious :D) Skittle 17:58, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In the US, eggs are always refrigerated in supermarkets. StuRat 01:29, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

One reason for the difference is that in North America eggs are usually washed before being put up for sale, which removes the protective oily coating that prevents bacteria from making its way through the porous shell. Also it is normally FAR warmer in most of the US and even Canada in spring, summer, and autumn than it is in the UK or Ireland, and when these rules were devised few people had air conditioning. Eggs that might keep at 18C may not keep at 36C. Edited. --Charlene 15:24, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you didn't open your 'fridge during the power failure, the usual advice given for kitchen-sized appliances is "24 hours is okay". This is especially true if your 'fridge is full of relatively massive food (as the more thermal mass inside the thermal insulation, the longer the interior will stay cold). Small (bar-sized/college-dorm-room-sized) 'fridges will fare far worse as they contain both less thermal insulation and less mass of food.

As a data point, when we had a several-days-long power outage this past winter, nothing in our fridge spoiled, although we did make a point of using-up the frozen food as quickly as practical (yes, it was still frozen).

BTW, is this "medical advice" ;-) ?

Atlant 15:43, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Only if we're wrong! :-) SteveBaker 21:43, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A minor hero of mine was a local supermarket manager who was faced with a prolonged power outage (per the power company) on a hot summer day. He told the staff to get charcoal grills and charcoal off the shelves, set them up in the parking lot, and cook and give away all the meat, which would othrwise have spoiled. Party! Edison 04:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What game is this?

Some fellow commuters on my train play a board game that I can't identify.

It looks like a draughts-type game played with pieces labelled with what appear to be Chinese ideograms. When setting up the board each player lays out his 15 pieces in his half of the board at the intersections of squares rather like this:

      Player B
    *   *   *   *
      *   *   *
   * * * * * * * * 
   
   * * * * * * * * 
      *   *   *
    *   *   *   *
      Player A

The draights-sized pieces are moved along the lines joining the intersections, sometimes going round corners. I haven't worked out what the capturing rule are.

I'm guessing it must be a Chinese game because of the ideograms and because two of the players look ethnically Chinese.

Any ideas what it might be? --85.158.137.195 08:02, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Go (board game)? --Richardrj ^talk ^email 08:04, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh sure, just because a board game is Asian it has to be go. (I'm half kidding here, but still, anyone who read even the intro to our article on Go could tell that this is far from it, and I'm tired of people thinking Asian Board Games Don't Pass Go.) --L^augh! 12:53, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, apologies. In fact I did read the article before I posted the link, and I thought it sounded close enough to the description that it could be the answer. Mea culpa. --Richardrj ^talk ^email 12:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe it by "close enough" you mean "pieces and a board" =/ --L^augh! 15:57, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just trying to imagine someone playing Go on a train! SteveBaker 21:42, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't Go. -- SGBailey 08:13, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well the description is pretty close to Xiangqi but the layout is different... --antilived^{T | C | G} 08:10, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the speedy response. It might well be Xiangqi (because I might have misremembered the layout). --85.158.137.195 08:20, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Some variant on Chinese checkers?

Atlant 15:45, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that the pieces are labelled rules out Chinese checkers, Solitaire and most of the other peg-in-hole type games. Xiangqi fits the bill better than anything else I could come up with. SteveBaker 21:42, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dual Carriageway

Anyone know what the first British dual carriageway was? -- SGBailey 08:12, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to this site [1] it was the London end of the Great West Road, opened in 1925 by George V. DuncanHill 12:58, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks -- SGBailey 15:32, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've been thinking about this one all day. 1925 sounds rather late. Maybe it's a question of definition, but does anyone know Letchworth? It was laid out as a garden city in the 1900s and it does claim the first roundabout. Welwyn Garden City has a mile long parkway laid out in the 1920s but I can't remember whether it is actually a dual carriageway.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 19:41, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Parkway in Welwyn is definitely not a dual carriageway - it is not a "parkway" as a US reader would understand the term. It is a pair of straight, single carriageway one-way residential roads with an area of grass and trees between them - like a long thin park surrounded by a one-way system. [2] is a picture from the 1950s. Gandalf61 09:28, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, "a pair of straight, single carriageway one-way roads with an area of grass or something between them" is a reasonable definition of a dual carriageway, isn't it? So this really becomes one of those "It depends on what you count" questions. Looking at the image, I agree that the Welwyn thing is better considered as two separate streets, but it's a judgement call. --Anonymous, July 14, 2007, 00:47 (UTC).

Just FYI: While not common, that usage of the term "Parkway" has been seen in the United States. The town I grew up in had a number of different streets that weren't "xxx Road", "xxx Lane", etc. but were, instead, "xxx Parkway". One wasn't even divided, it was just very broad compared to other streets in the town.

Atlant 13:20, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The basic meaning of "parkway" is a road whose surroundings are, or are supposed to be, park-like. Some roads using that name in North America are major expressways, some are slow two-lane roads (meaning one lane each way), some -- especially in New York State -- are in between. An interesting example is the Niagara River near Niagara Falls, which is flanked on the New York State side by the Robert Moses State Parkway, which is dual carriageway (or divided highway as we say here), and on the other side by the Niagara Parkway, which is two lanes. A major US example of a two-lane "parkway" is the Blue Ridge Parkway. --Anonymous, July 14, 2007, 00:47 (UTC).

I hazily remember reading somewhere or other (I've got millions of authorities just as good as that) that the first "parkways" were roads that happened to be built and managed by a Parks Department. —Tamfang 18:28, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Zendor

What does the name Zendor mean? 200.31.8.218 08:18, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Proper names don't necessarily mean anything, but according to a single fictional G-hit (for "zendor means") it means "above all". FWIW. --Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

An obscure postal term? (Return to Zendor, addrezz unknown.) Clarityfiend 16:48, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Did you maybe mean 'Zenda'? If so, it's a fictional town in the fictional country of Ruritania. The Prisoner of Zenda is a pretty famous book - with a bazillion movies, TV versions and spin-off books. SteveBaker 21:39, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Or did you mean Zandor, which is an Eastern European variant of Alexander? --Charlene 02:41, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, the name Zendor I'm looking for is referred to an extraterrestrial specially mentioned into a meeting i went to the Rahma Group [3], it is very important to me to clarify the origin of this name or if it is purely fictional. --Juandpalacios 19:59, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This raises a question of definition: are someone else's religious doctrines "purely fictional"? —Tamfang 18:37, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

One source says Zendor is from the Greek root: Zeno, probably a form of Zeus. There seems to be no actual reference in etymology. Whether fact, fantasy, fiction or religious doctrine - try looking up Ashtar Command or at least some people acknowledged this one [4].

history

Please tell me which viceroy of India is better known as "Brillient failure"?

This (google cached) article refers to Robert_Bulwer-Lytton,_1st_Earl_of_Lytton son of Lord Lytton in these terms. Czmtzc 20:10, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that the Earl, whose hair remained black almost until death, was granted a knighthood in the Order of the Bath as well as an earldom despite his somewhat combative temperament. I suppose they wanted a dark and stormy knight. --Charlene 02:31, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I note in passing that each of the six men who have held the title Baron Lytton or Earl of Lytton would normally be called "Lord Lytton". —Tamfang 18:40, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Brillient" ? I know B-L wasn't a great writer, but that's a bit much even for him... 68.39.174.238 15:02, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since the writer died before his son became Viceroy, it's unlikely that he coined the epithet. —Tamfang 18:40, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

management

Survival sustainability of business organisation will different fro proative managment practices?

It is not clear what you are trying to ask. Can you try to state your question more clearly? Also, please sign your question by typing four tildes at the end of it. (That is, type the following character four times: ~) Marco polo 21:05, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Boeing 787's Special Release Date

Hello. Was the Boeing 787 released on July 8, 2007 because if you write July 8, 2007 all in numbers, you would write out 7-8-2007, which may be shortened to 7-8-7 that is the name of Boeing's new plane? Thanks in advance. --Mayfare 22:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How observant ;). Acceptable 23:24, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that's true - at least that's what I heard on NPR shortly before that event. They were planning to release it around about now - but the choice of exact date was too good to miss. Of course in some countries this is going to fall flat because (for example) the British write dates Day/Month/Year and some other European countries write Year/Month/Data resulting in 8/7/7 or 7/7/8. Oh well - nicer try Boeing! SteveBaker 04:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's not just Britain that uses DD/MM/YY...it is the majority of the world - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format#Date_format

concours d'elegance trained judges

How do anyone becomes a judge for this, what kind of training or schooling needed and where?

Please read our article. It will help a bit. --Mayfare 02:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]