Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 February 13

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February 13

Preheating Modern Cars

Do most modern cars need to be preheated (keep engine idle for a while) when just starting up during cold winter mornings? I read somewhere that modern cars have complicated computer controlled systems that do not need preheating. If so, how exactly does this computer system work? Thanks. Jamesino 02:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

For your first question, no. How it works I don't know. Splintercellguy 03:14, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

At a guess it would be something to do with the now wide spread use of the Engine Control Module and Fuel injection. Those systems are now sophisticated enough to control minute operations of the engine, such as fuel mixture and timing, which in the past were set rigidly with mechanical mechanisms like pulleys and chains and air pressure in a carburettor. Because fuels are more volatile and metal and air expands when it is hot, when those systems are mechanical and rigid you have to decide if your engine is going to be most efficient when it is at temperature OR when it is cold, the answer back then was simple, it has to be most efficient when it is hot because MOST of the time the engine runs it is hot, except for the first few minutes it runs. But now, electronic control systems can adjust the engine's parameters wether it is cold or hot, so it can be efficient regardless of those factors. Vespine 05:37, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I lust after modern hybrid cas which have electric resistance heat (instant heat) and lament 1940's-1950's cars which had a gasoline burning heater (instant heat). As is you get no appreciable heat for about the first 8 miles you drive, and it takes about 12 miles for the car to get warm. Modern cars seem to have to idle an unreasonably long time to get warm, and unless you are sitting in it, someone will break in and steal it. Edison 06:23, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I know that the advice I remember hearing was that you shouldn't warm your car up for more than a minute in any case, cause it's just wasting gas. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 09:30, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

It is instructive to open the radiator filler cap and stick a thermometer in there when the car is cold - then start the car and watch the temperature rise. The temperature sits there for a while - not changing much - then, suddenly, when the thermostat opens, the temperature rockets up - and (hopefully) stays rock solid from that point on. You know for 100% sure that there is no point in idling the motor any longer than that...but unless you live in an exceptionally cold climate, you're better off just driving away immediately. In really cold climates, an electrical engine block heater makes a lot of sense. SteveBaker 22:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

For the winter, get yourself a good Block heater. This saves the engine (the oil flows!) and the heat works a lot faster! I still run the engine for a minute or 2 before I drive. --Zeizmic 13:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Depends on how cold your winters are! I wouldn't recommend one of those here in Texas for example! SteveBaker 22:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Popular Mechanics agrees with SteveBaker - just don't bother. Lowerarchy 14:50, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

HDTV

Will HDTV ever be the only type or the main type of TV available? that is replace conventional TV before they come up with something else? will 1080p ever become the de-facto standard for HDTV??

Eventually, when there's enough bandwidth and infrastructure for it. But HD is quite a vague term, and some time in future 1080p may be considered to be too low or something. --antilived^{T | C | G} 05:11, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

In the USA, the transition to HD broadcasting (as opposed to cable and satellite) is already law. The old analog TV channels are to be given back to the US government on February 17th, 2009 - and on that day analog TV sets will simply stop working for broadcast television. The government will re-allocate those frequencies for other things (possibly more cellphone/wireless-internet bandwidth). But have no doubt - this has definitely been set in motion. Once this takes effect, you may still be able to buy analog TV from satellite and cable providers - but if every TV set sold has to have HD capability in order to be able to view broadcast TV - then they might as well go ahead and do the switch too. The theory is that there will be manufacturers who will sell interface boxes that allow you to view the HD channels on an old analog TV - but I'd be surprised if many companies actually make those things. By the time we get to that point, HD TV sets should be fairly cheap and there won't be much of a market for propping up those old analog sets for many more years. It's definitely going to happen.

In truth, we should have already done this. There was a previous FCC ruling that said that analog TV would be dead and buried by Jan 1st 2006 - but the TV studios pleaded that they couldn't make the transition in time - so they got a three year delay. But this new date in 2009 isn't just an FCC ruling - it's law.

Now - as to whether 1080p is 'the standard' - I'm not so sure. HD televisions can typically display a whole range of resolutions and both up-sample and down-sample (so, for example a channel showing only weather forcasts will probably be transmitted at much less than 1080p and be up-sampled by the TV in order to display it. But then a cheap portable TV with a 640x480 LCD display will have to down-sample 1080p to fit it onto its display. Once everything is digital, this kind of thing is quite possible.

As for other countries, see List of digital television deployments by country. Quite a few are lining up around the same dates. SteveBaker 05:28, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think 1080p "TV" will ever become standard, because by the time it's cheap enough that all our little TVs we have (you know the tiny ones most people have in kitchens, boats, RVs, that we all got for 20$ from wal-mart) we'll be using alternate forms entertainment. On Demand movies and shows, internet, custom content...TV entertainment, as in "Eating what's put on your plate" will be gone, and will be changed to something more like an all-you-can-eat buffet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Feba (talk • contribs)

Not exactly. Digital TV is mandated, not HD. Normal television sets also still work; however, unless they have a digital tuner of their own, they'll need an external box to do pick it up (digital cable boxes, satellite receivers, etc., which many people already have). Cable and satellite can carry digital signals; satellite already deals purely in digital, and a lot of cable does as well. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Speaking from my own point of view, HDTV has a long way to go before the cost is justified. I'm not keen on paying significantly extra on my cable bill for a small handful of channels that display obvious compression artifacts... -- mattb @ 2007-02-13T05:39Z

It's not like you have a choice - in less than two years time (in the USA at least) there will be no more analog TV - and yes, those cheap TV's sitting in people's kitchens, dens, etc will become paperweights unless you have cable or satellite feeds going to them. Buying digital tuners may be possible - but I'm betting they'll cost more than a cheap digital TV set. SteveBaker 22:58, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

HDTV != DTV. Anyway, my point is more that there isn't a lot of value in paying for HD channels right now. There are few of them and from what I've experienced, they are often (ironically) poorly compressed. -- mattb @ 2007-02-13T23:21Z

mattb.c(1) Error: Syntax

Try HDTV != DTV; anonymous6494 06:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Worlds largest CARNIVORE...

Where does the Great Barrier Reef near Australia fit in?

Fit into what? The Great Barrier Reef is made up of thousands of individual corals, I don't think thousands of individuals can qualify as "largest carnivore", otherwise I'd say the population of the states would be bigger then the great barrier reef. ;) Largest organism is an interesting read and actually mentions the Great barrier reef. Vespine 05:26, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

In the mouth, hopefully. Lowerarchy 14:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Esper

What could be the equivalent of the espers [or esper mansion] from the phantasy star series in real life?

(copied to Entertainment) V-Man737 05:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

War on Wikipedia?

Many of my friends are IP vandals. Just today, one of my friends told me that he was going to vandalize every single page and make "war on Wikipedia" (a la jihadists). How can I deal with these guys, both on and off wiki? bibliomaniac15 05:50, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Report them to WP:AIV, and point out to them that it probably takes us less than 30 seconds to block them and revert all of their additions. Compare that to how long they wasted making them. :) -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 05:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Point out to them how cool it is when stuff they do doesn't last for the abovementioned 30 seconds, has no effect on the world around them, and is waaaaaaay fun (compared to lame things like, say, finding a date or paintballing). V-Man737 06:12, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

In my personal case, if all those other methods don't work, I would threaten them with limited blackmail or physical violence, but I don't think this will be considered good advice. --Taraborn 10:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, for people like this the only remedy is often to wait until they discover the opposite sex. --TotoBaggins 18:08, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

If you can find other people who feel like you - then having you all point at the offenders and laugh at them can be very effective. If these are in any way intelligent kids, it's also worth mentioning that in the world you guys will be growing up in, everything you've ever done online will likely be accessible to people in the far distant future. So - there will be one of your friends - now matured, successful, serious and a pillar of society in a snappy business suit...running as Governor of New York or something. When the media go 'muck rakeing' (as they surely will) they'll easily be able to turn up all of the stupid and embarrassing things that guy said about what will (by then) be the sole repository of all human knowledge. I tell my son this all the time. Never do or say anything online that you wouldn't want said about you when you run for president (or try to get a good job - or...who-knows-what-else). SteveBaker 20:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

• I'd change my friends,they sound like jerks to me.hotclaws**== 09:23, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this is one of the most obvious but still very well "hidden" facts about Wikipedia to the common vandal. The more shit they do, the easier it is for us to remove their entries. The only really efficient vandalizing is that which happens in the really, really small. Like just doing it to ONE article (wiping it out, I mean), or seeding untruths. Such as the M113 "Gavin" scam that was long attempted and probably still is - it's a clever kind of vandalizing through repeatedly stating something is true at as many different places as possible. But yeah, tell your friends to go at it! They'll cause two frowns and a revertion shortly after they're done, and will think they've screwed Wikipedia over, destroying the dream of a free encyclopedia for all to contribute to. :) 81.93.102.185 12:25, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I don´t know what you call a friend, but I´d never call a friend of mine someone like that. You have to do something about it. You must talk to them, you have to try to convince them of your opinion and, if it´s too hard, find some new friends, some intelligent people which are not as problematic as those. But don´t give up on helping them. A.Z. 03:35, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Postmodern porno

where might I find some postmodern porn? Does such a concept even exist? Thanks.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.198.239.34 (talk • contribs)

What would that even be? CG? Japanese tentacles? --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 09:24, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

See Food porn. --Dweller 12:18, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Depends on your definition of "post-modern", I'd guess... 惑乱 分からん 12:37, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The whole idea of gonzo porn sort of subverts the traditional idea of what pornography is - in fact, what film itself is. I guess that could be postmodern in some sense. But why do you want to know? There are so many different ideas of what "postmodern" is, that to try to apply the term to pornography is a difficult if not futile (not to mention, useless) thing to do. zafiroblue05 | Talk 04:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

The rather strange French comic book series "Linda aime l'art" (Linda loves art) by Philippe Bertrand could possibly be classified as post-modern pornography/erotica. It's hard to find much information in English, though: [1], [2]. 惑乱 分からん 13:44, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Maybe your question would be easier the other way around. Some might say that postmodernism ain't nothing but porn. Lowerarchy 14:58, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Fabric name

Hi, I would like to know if there is any specific name for combination of Lycra, Nylon and Polyester? 219.93.153.253 06:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)Hanny

No. Its a nylon, polyester and lycra blend. Some manufacturers have trade names for specific percentages of fiber blends, but that is a very rare thing. Generally, that's just a blend, especially because you didn't specify the percentages. pschemp | talk 07:46, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

a query

Good day Sir/Madam,

Thanks for having this website available. I just want to ask if there is a place in Cagayan de Oro City which is named Alluana.My foreigner friend told me to look for the exact location of that place, it is nearby the sea and mountainside. He is interested to be there and perhaps make some investment.

More power and thank you very much!

Sincerely yours,

Ms Castillo210.213.194.43 10:48, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't see any place by that name. If you do a google-search for Cagayan de Oro City [3] there are quite a few "official websites" for the area, but none of them mention anywhere called Alluana. --Maelwys 13:37, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

• Could it be a bar or buisness?hotclaws**== 09:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Livejournal layouts

Could anyone point me towards a site or community with Livejournal layouts? It's probably the wrong place to ask, but I've reached dead end after dead end through the usual channels (Google).

Thanks, Harwoof 11:04, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Try a website such as http://community.livejournal.com/spiralbound_lj/.

If that doesn't have what you're looking for, look at the profiles of its members. They make belong to other layout communities you can look at. Ohthelameness 02:13, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Question

I remember the story of a chinese soldier under ww2, that got captured by the japanese and was made to fight for them, then captured by the russians and made to fight for them, then captured by the germans and made to fight for them, and finally captured by USA.

I cant remember much about about it I hope anyone can direct me to better sources. Joneleth 11:58, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I have heard this story too - though the version I heard described the soldier as Korean. -who eventually ended up defending the atlantic wall against the d-day invasion.

See http://www.geocities.com/alvinlee_81/WarPicsChinese.html for more examples.83.100.254.40 12:12, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

This story is told in this book http://www.amazon.com/D-Day-Climactic-Battle-World/dp/product-description/068480137X

Quote from 'D Day: June 6, 1944: The Climactic Battle of World War II' by Stephen E. Ambrose

The so-called Ost (east) battalions became increasingly unreliable after the German defeat at Kursk; they were, therefore, sent to France in exchange for German troops. At the beach called Utah on the day of the invasion, Lt. Robert Brewer of the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division, U.S. Army, captured four Asians in Wehrmacht uniforms. No one could speak their language; eventually it was learned that they were Koreans. How on earth did Koreans end up fighting for Hitler to defend France against Americans? It seems they had been conscripted into the Japanese army in 1938 -- Korea was then a Japanese colony -- captured by the Red Army in the border battles with Japan in 1939, forced into the Red Army, captured by the Wehrmacht in December 1941 outside Moscow, forced into the German army, and sent to France. (What happened to them, Lieutenant Brewer never found out, but presumably they were sent back to Korea. If so, they would almost certainly have been conscripted again, either into the South or the North Korean army. It is possible that in 1950 they ended up fighting once again, either against the U.S. Army, or with it, depending on what part of Korea they came from. Such are the vagaries of politics in the twentieth century.) By June 1944, one in six German riflemen in France was from an Ost battalion

83.100.254.40 12:52, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

And here are some rumours of war from George Orwell. meltBanana 14:24, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the information that should be enough. Joneleth 14:56, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Blocked sink

Could Bleach satisfactorily clear a blocked sink? 136.206.1.17 14:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

(Question copied to Science) --Lph 15:44, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Not really - if it is truly blocked a strong clearance product can be bought cheaply at a hardware store.90.4.245.155 16:23, 13 February 2007 (UTC)petitmichel

Or a classic black rubber plunger - those work wonders on blockages. If even a little water leaks around the blockage (you can tell because the water level in the sink gradually falls over many minutes) then in the absence of any other way - wait for the sink to drain dry then refill it to the very top with hot water (maybe from a boiling kettle) and washing up liquid. This will sometimes clear out a stubborn blockage. It works for toilets too. SteveBaker 20:29, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Naaah. Bleach. Pour it in and let it sit. After a while, bits should float to the top of the water/bleach. After that, all you need is a pair of chopstics to poke down the drain a few times to clear the clog. Swear. This really works. I tried it once. But be warned, the stuff that you pull out with the chopsitkcs is realy nasty. Good luck! :-) Ilikefood 21:34, 13 February 2007 (UTC) (p.s. if you realy wanna clear a drain and youre not worried about nasty chemicals, use Drano. if you dont want hazardous chemicals around, do it this way.)

I agree with SteveBaker. Bleach is NOT a good idea; the quantity of bleach necessary to degrade the contents would be very damaging to your plumbing. I agree that the chemical solution of choice is Drano or something similar, although if you are truly too lazy busy to plunge, a compressed air canister (available most places where drano is sold) will work as well as a plunger, better than drano, way better than bleach, and will be environmentally neutral. Further to that, per SteveBaker, I find that (for plugs that are mostly soap and gacky stuff from bathing), a cup of baking soda in the dry drain followed by a kettle full of boiling water (repeated if necessary) usually works. The chopsticks thing helps loosen stuff up in between or after. amended Anchoress 21:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I have used one of those compressed air things - they are REALLY impressive and worked extremely well for me. But I have a friend who tried to use one and it blew apart one of the joints in his UPVC drain - causing no end of nasty consequences. SteveBaker 22:52, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Wow. What was his drain plugged with? Concrete? C4? Nitro glycerine? And yes, I know C4 needs a trigger, but it's still funny. Anchoress 02:17, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Probably hair, with a very high Relative effectiveness factor. V-Man737 02:50, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

A Plumber's snake works very well. No smelly chemicals, and no fear of exploding your plumbing. In my experience they're pretty inexpensive at hardware stores. FreplySpang 09:27, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

And the chemicals may not work very well on a bathroom sink (which is almost impossible to unclog with a plunger if it has one of those levered closing devices). I bought a snake with Velcro at one end and it removed all kinds of hair. Now my sink works fine. --Charlene 10:26, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to be off topic, but the C4 article says that it needs a shock to explode so flames just make it burn, so the shock of air from a air canister might just set some off anyway. I know that it wasnt in his drain, but if it was it probably would have gone off. Ilikefood 22:15, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I thought the 'shock' C4 needed was electricity? I thought that was the superiority of C4 over nitro; it's more stable v/v physical impact etc. But what do I know lol? Anchoress 22:19, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Venus

What are the hottest and coldest spots on Venus? Bryce999 14:54, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

space.com has the answer. Jon513 15:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Repost of Earlier Question: My Venus Question

Sorry about getting people confused on my earlier post. It seems that I hadn't seen the rules for the Talk page. Anyway, does anyone know what the hottest and coldest spots on Venus are? If I'm asking on the wrong talk page, please redirect me to the appropriate page for this topic. --Bryce999 15:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Topic	Post	Time Stamp
row 1, cell 1	row 1, cell 2	row 1, cell 3
row 2, cell 1	row 2, cell 2	row 2, cell 3

Our article Atmosphere of Venus has some information on the temperature (and the contributing factors to the temperature) on the planet. It seems that the hottest spot would be the lowest valley, and the coolest would be the highest mountain most likely. You can read more information there. --Maelwys 15:28, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The science desk usually covers geological, planetry and climate questions - that's the place to ask. I'd recommend you put the question there if you haven't got the answer yet.87.102.66.142 18:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

do escalators have a standard speed

I was wondering whether escalators (moving staircases) had a standard speed - and is it the same for ascending as for descending. any ideas?

thanks

spiggy 16:10, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

solved. thanks

An interesting point is that the band where you put your hands actually is moving faster than the footsteps. Try holding your hands and legs completely still for an entire ride, and you should notice it. 惑乱 分からん 22:00, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, if you do this you'll also notice that as the escalator levels out at the top your feet will start to "catch up" with your hand just before the platform at the end. Dismas|^(talk) 01:50, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

If the handrail is going faster at one point, how can it be going slower at another, since it is continuous? − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 08:39, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know but go try it. Dismas|^(talk) 10:22, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

It's not the handrail that changes speed - it's the stairs. If you think about the length of one of the treads as 'L' and the height of the 'riser' on the steps as 'R' - then as each step passes a particular point, you are moving a distance equal to the square root of (L²+R²) - which for a 45 degree staircase would be about 1.4 times L. On the other hand, when the stairway levels out and the stairs fold flat, as each tread passes a fixed point, you are only moving L units. So you are actually moving slower on the level parts than on the slope. However, the handrail can't do that - so they have to find a good 'compromise' speed that goes a bit slower than you are moving on the diagonal part - and a bit faster on the level parts. Ah! The power of elementary math! :-) SteveBaker 04:45, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Is that to get those lazy asses to actually walk up, rather than just stand on them? They are designed as steps for a reason! Sorry for the outburst, but I guess this is one of my pet peeves. Or maybe it had to be said. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 08:39, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Umm. I think the whole idea of an escalator is that you don't have to walk up it.--Shantavira 09:29, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

First, the two handrails and the steps are all supposed to move at the same speed; the idea is that for a standing rider, holding onto the handrail will promote safety, and it won't do that if the handrail creeps ahead or behind. But the steps and the two handrails have to have separate drives because they are in different places, and it's possible that things will get out of sync. I've ridden on escalators where the handrails would slow down if people just squeezed them a little; you can see that that would make them hard to synchronize.

Now as for the original question, the answer is no. I don't have a cite, but I've definitely read about different speeds of escalators being used in different places. I think I've read that store escalators, which are more likely to be used by people unfamiliar with them, would operate slower than transit system escalators. And I think I've read that the long escalators on the London Underground move faster than those on the Washington Metro, but slower than some on Russian subway systems.

I believe that most escalators do rise at a common standard angle of 30° above the horizontal, though.

--Anonymous, February 15, 2007, 01:57 (UTC).

I think that is wrong. The handrails are moving faster than the steps due to psychological reasons. If the handrails would have the exact same speed, one would get the feeling the hand was going backwards. As I sadi, try it out! Keep the hand firmly clasped to the handrail for a whole ride. 惑乱 分からん 13:06, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I cannot imagine what this person is thinking. If the handrails are moving faster and you stand still holding firmly onto them, then you will start to fall over forwards! This is hazardous, but not very much so, because in practice if it happens then people will let go. --Anonymous, Feb. 16, 04:07 (UTC).

The difference in speed is not very large, but you could notice your hand has moved. You're approaching an illogical reason in a logical manner. 惑乱 分からん 14:19, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah - the speed difference is maybe just a centimeter per second - but it's very noticable and all escalators do it. The reasons is simple - check out my math (above). SteveBaker 17:06, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

• The company that made the 100+ escalators for a new terminal at Heathrow airport put the handrail and the steps on the same chain so there's no difference in speed. Seeing as the speed is determined by the power of the engine, I'd say most have close to the same speed, although I have no clue what that speed is. - Mgm|^(talk) 11:17, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

missing result

What happened to the football game in British Gas League Midlands Division yesterday: Sutton Coldfield vs. Spalding United. Here in cache I found it, but the actual website doesn't show the result. Does anybody know the result or a link where I can see it? Thanks, --89.27.229.216 17:36, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The match was postponed according to a post on the Spalding united website --84.9.46.145 18:16, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. Do you know the new date/time, when the game will start? --89.27.229.216 18:21, 13 February 2007 (UTC)