Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2006 November 2

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November 2

wild cats?

lion biggest? fastest cheetah? smallest osolot?

not sure about smallest

what about largest teeth and smallest?

--Thebirds07 00:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Liger biggest (usually tiger largest), wild cat smallest. See also Felidae and big cat. Rmhermen 00:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually a number of lesser known species are even smaller than the Wild cat. Including the Black-footed Cat, Little Spotted Cat, Kodkod, Leopard Cat. Rmhermen 00:25, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I thought the Rusty-spotted cat was the smallest. The Andean cat is the absolute coolest. -THB 02:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Very cool, thanks. Part cat, part squirrel? --Justanother 16:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Mis-information on the Cars flim pages

On the page about the Cars film http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cars_(film) Many of the cars are labled as being certain makes when there is no backing about this by Disney or Pixar. The characters that come to mind are Lightning McQueen, Boost, DJ, Snot Rod and Wingo. They have their own pages with misinformation about what their makes are. The cars that have official makes are listed in the credits and none of the ones listed there are in the credits of the film and books. The ones listed in the credits are: Dodge, Hudson Hornet, Volkswagen, Model T, Fiat, Mack, Mazda Miata, Kenworth, Chevrolet Impala, Porche, Jeep, Mercury, Plymouth Super Bird, Cadilla Coupe De Ville.

There is no mention of a Ford GT, a Mitsubishi, A Nissan, a Toyota or anything else listed on those pages. I do not have an account so I did not edit myself. I still feel that it's wrong to edit pages. Things like this end up happening.

Snakey 63.21.29.88 00:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

There are references. Did you not see them? For instance saying that Lightning McQueen is "A hybrid between a stock car and a more curvaceous LeMans endurance racer (like Lolas and the Ford GT40)." That apparently came from Pixar in this article ""A grease geek will guide you: 'Cars' decoded" by Dan Neil, Los Angeles Times, June 4, 2006". That link no longer works but we can probably assume that that is a true quote. The link needs to be updated. So you are saying because you did not see it in the credits, it should not be in the article here? The articles here can draw on many sources. Show me a specific one that you dispute and I will help you figure out if it is legit or not. --Justanother 00:39, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I found the article [1] and you may have a good point. There is no GT40 mention there but that can probably be forgiven as whoever put it in the article was trying to explain "curvaceous LeMans endurance racer". I will adjust that bit to show you how it should probably look. --Justanother 00:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at Lightning now. When a wikipedia editor adds his own ideas to an article, that is called "original research" (OR) and it is not allowed. Mentioning the Lola and GT40 looks like original research as does the mention of the Buick Regal in a later one. Usually on a noncontroversial article like Cars, editors can get away with a lot of OR but if someone challenges them they have to source it or remove it. If you want to address it go ahead but be gentle. First try to find where that idea may have come from and supply the missing citation see WP:Cite. If you can't find one then just tag the fact asking for a citation; just type {{fact}} after the bit you dispute. If no-one comes back with one in a few days, go ahead and remove the uncited part. --Justanother 01:05, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the help. Would I add the fact dispute after each sentence? I could post a link to most of the pages I found. The Lightning reference of course would be one. Then the fact that they mention Boost is an Eclipse, Wingo is a Silvia (this is also sadly mentioned on the Nissan Silvia page not to mention the images are labled as such which would mislead people), DJ is a Scion, and Snot Rod is a Barracuda are wrong and has not backing from Disney. Should I also provide Disney/Pixar approved material such as scanning the pictures of the toys where the characters are merely described as "tuners". The toys that are based on real cars and the ones that Disney was approved to use have the manufactuer logos on the bottom of the boxes. I think the reason the villains in the movie were composites that look like parts of cars but not any real car is because the companies would not give Pixar the right to portray their products in a negative light. But some of the cars mentioned in this don't even look like the ones in the movie. Snakey 63.21.41.23 04:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Remember to first try to verify it yourself. You should make a decent effort before tagging it. For example I tried to find a reliable source for Snot Rod being a Barracuda. I searched google here. There are 477 hits and I looked at the first 100 of them (you may want to look at more) and there was no reliable source. Remember, wikipedia and similar sites are NOT reliable sources. Nor are forums. A reliable source might be a newspaper or website of a reputable news firm. Here is an example of a reputable source; check it out, they mention the Buick Regal. [2] Remember also, that the internet is only a small portion of the resources available so perhaps the source exists but we can't easily find it. That is why you ask first. Sources do NOT have to be available on the internet, they just need to be reliable and cited. It is also possible to state something in different ways that can make less than reliable information acceptable here. If a Pixar or Disney representative says Snot Rod is a Barracuda then it would be represented as a fact. If an auto columnist in a reliable source says he looks like a Barracuda, or is one, that would be presented as "Joe Blow, columnist for the Terrible Times, stated that . . ." or perhaps "Terrible Times: 'Snot Rod is a Barracuda'" in that chart. Finally, if there is a lot of fan buzz that he is a Barracuda, you might be able to say "Fans claim . . . " but that one can get dicey. And yes, you should put the tag once for each group of related facts that you dispute; once for each car perhaps but not once after each part of a statement about a specific car if you dispute it all. Just be clear about what you dispute. You should also open a topic on the article discussion page for people to talk about your ideas. And remember that although other editors may have more experience or be "better writers" (though you seem a competent writer), none are "more special" than others. We are all equal. And that one article is not "more important" than another when it comes to our desire to "get it right" so go ahead and fix Cars. Hope this helps. --Justanother 14:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

This is precisely why I brought it up. There is no backing for these statments from an official Pixar or Disney person which is why it bothered me that some fan is trying to pass this off as fact. Some Pixar guy could come out of the blue and say they're all station wagons and then that would be the way it is. Coming from a scientific background I know that one should not make statements without having something to back them up. Seems to me this guy just wrote this stuff because he believes it. Another reason I didn't want to fix it myself is because he can come back at a later date and change everything back. What do you do when that happens? Snakey 63.21.9.150 18:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

If "Some Pixar guy could come out of the blue and say they're all station wagons" then that would have to stand if it is reported in a reliable source (he can't come here and claim to be a Pixar guy and change everything). It is not our job to judge the credibility of a spokesperson (unless that credibility question is also reported in a reliable source); that is the job of the reliable source, that is why they are called reliable and that is why unreliable sources like forums or newsgroups are not. But that is unlikely. What is more possible is that "Some anonymous wikipedia editor could come out of the blue and say they're all station wagons". That is easy to handle. You make a commitment to wikipedia. Open an account, it is free and anonymous, make your edits, and then add the page to your watchlist so you can keep an eye on it. That is the only solution. Eventually other editors will come to agree with you and help you protect the page. Just don't think that all that goes there is "official" statements. Anything that appears in a reliable source can go there provided it is not misrepresented. Think of wikipedia as a mirror that can only reflect information from reliable sources but cannot judge that information itself or add to it. Have fun. --Justanother 19:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes I know that, which is why I brough this up. I know it's not likely but what I'm saying is if a Pixar person did just show up (yes he'd have to prove who he was let's say he did) then my example stands that as rediculus as it sounds they would all officially be station wagons. We're on the same side here I'm not trying to argue. You yourself said you couldn't find any reliagable sources after going through 100 links for Snot Rod. This is why I mentioned this in the first place. What I'm proposing is putting up the information that IS official from Disney and Pixar. I have my own ideas about what the cars are but that doesn't make it so. My ideas aren't backed in the credits and neither is what is here. Many people believe anything they read. I questioned the information right away. It sounded fishy to me and after looking around just as you did came to the same conclusion that there's nothing to back this up. I have the official books, have a printed copy of the credits and the official descriptions of the toys all of which were given the Disney stamp of approval. Well, I may just make an account and change those parts as you recommend. Thanks for the help.

Great! Go for it. My point is that if a Pixar guy showed up here he still could not do his "original research" here. He would have to have it published elsewhere first (Pixar's website would be fine but not his personal website). Doesn't matter if he is the president of Pixar. You don't write original material here. These far-fetched examples can get dicey but I am sure you get my point. --Justanother 20:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh one more thing. On the Delinquent's page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Delinquent_Road_Hazards there is no option at the top to edit the intro section where the makes of the four are mentioned. That part needs to be changed. Are there any admins that can fix things like this when this happens? And the citation needed links on the main page were removed already. Did you do this or is it our fan kid at work? Snakey 63.21.12.253 19:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Just hit "Edit this page" at the very top. --Justanother 20:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Now welcome to the "real" wikipedia! Skywatcher68 seems to be invested in that article. What you don't want to do is butt heads with him. Open your account then start a topic on the talk page about your {{fact}} templates. Work out with him how to best achieve what you want to achieve. He may well agree with you. You may also want to point at this discussion so others can see your logic and you don't have to repeat everything; copy and paste [[Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous#Mis-information on the Cars flim pages]] By the way, you put a fact template on the one that I already fixed. Good luck. From here on out please go to my talk page if you need help as this has gone beyond the scope of the reference desk. I am happy to continue to help you. --Justanother 20:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

pink object?

size of horse head? --Thebirds07 00:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC) a toy? --Thebirds07 00:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

A Barbie dollhouse??? 惑乱 分からん 00:36, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

whats the question ?

An industrial size bucket of suitly emphazi? Hyenaste ^(tell) 01:56, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

This should make you happy: X. -THB 02:04, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

• I think a pink horse head pretty much fits your requirements. - 131.211.210.17 09:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

LOL... please suitly inform us as to the desired outcome of the placing of a fake horse head in your lover's bed. Chris 18:30, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Where can I report Child Pornography sites?

I found a site that is posting ACTUAL child pr0n, where can I report them? The velociraptor 00:43, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Google can keep you happy for hours. --Tagishsimon (talk)

The you can report the site to National Center for Missing & Exploited Children here. Jon513 14:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children is only for the United States however. Maybe report it to Interpol or something, I don't know. --WikiSlasher 10:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Just go right ahead and report it here, so that the rest of us can enjoy... err... become thoroughly enraged by it.

This joke has been brought to you by. Chris No child pornography sites have been visited by this user in the past 1... 2... 3 seconds. -- 17:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Chris, we are talking REAL child porn here, you know, like 5 years old; I doubt that you would enjoy it. --Justanother 17:25, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

That's kind of the idea. -- Chris 18:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, while we might have a bizarre fascination with the face of the pure evil that man can bring himself to do (and eventually desensitize himself to), I would not call the gratification of that fascination, "enjoyment". Reminds me of the beheading videos; I kinda wanted to watch one but always seemed to "chicken out" before the actual deed. Mike the Headless Chicken being another matter entirely. --Justanother 18:44, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. No matter how interesting fantasies about children might feel, the idea of real-life child pornography is utterly repulsive. JIP | Talk 11:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

WWI .303 British vs 5.56 NATO

Can someone compare the World War One .303 British round fired by the British Lee Enfield Rifles with the 5.56mm NATO round fired by the US Standard Issue M4/M16? (In terms of accuracy, power, range, etc..) Thanks --Jamesino 01:52, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

We have articles on both of them. Rmhermen 02:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Slightly painful lip zit

I have a tiny whitehead zit just on the corner of my lips. It's rather painful to touch, and a little jarring to see in the mirror. Should I leave it there if it's painful and wait for it to pass? Any suggestions? Just a minor annoyance, is all. 70.50.103.86 03:02, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Try acne meds? The velociraptor 04:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Attack it gently after a long hot shower since it hurts. -THB 04:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Wait for it to pass. Bacteria from a whitehead can travel deeper into the skin if it's disturbed, which can lead to more whiteheads. A little witch hazel (available for a pittance from a good pharmacy or for a king's ransom at good cosmetics counters) will "dry up" the whitehead faster, which makes it less prominent and less painful. Durova 05:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

A little hydrogen peroxide applied two or three times a day with a q-tip will work the same way as Durova's suggestion. Anchoress 07:36, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Whiteheads aren't caused by bacteria, they're caused by a buildup of glandular secretions (sebum). The pain is caused by the pressure. -THB 09:14, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

They're not caused by bacteria, but they do contain some, and squeezing can sufficiently irritate the pore walls to allow the bacteria entree into the surrounding tissue, leading to a pimple. Anchoress 16:53, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It's irritating because your lip wants you do to something about it. The nagging discomfort is like a protest to the government (your brain). You can ignore the protestors, or you can appease them. A fingernail or two is the ideal tool in my vast experience. -- Chris 17:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Blue heron

How long does a blue heron stand on one leg before switching legs?

Dang, I thought that was a really obscure answer to the zit question. I liked it better that way. --Justanother 04:09, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Until it gets tired I suppose. See [3] for some info. --Light current 04:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe they can stand on one leg indefinitely. Unlike our legs, which must constantly use muscles while we are standing, to maintain balance, some birds seem to have a way to lock a leg into position so that the bones directly support their weight, in a stable manner, much like a tree trunk supports a tree without requiring any muscles. StuRat 05:40, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

That would seem to be correct. Budgerigars can certainly stand on one foot for 12 hours at a time whilst sleeping, so the answer will either be 'indefinitely' or 'for a very long time'. --Kurt Shaped Box 07:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Having long toes of course also helps (if you don't want the wind to blow you over). DirkvdM 08:30, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

214 out of 220 blue herons measured in your locale -- wherever that may be -- stand on one leg for 381.40 +/- 57.34 seconds before switching. Each heron was given a unique and distinctive 2 oz. leg tag as to prevent it from being timed more than once. Regrettably, the tags made them easy prey for mud sharks and eagles, and 112 out of the 220 were recorded as dead before the study had ended. But, at least your question as been answered with thoroughness and precision!

This spoof has been brought to you by Chris. -- 17:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

(deleted seemingly spoof-like (but accurate and potentially life-saving(if off-topic)) post). Edison 18:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

In case it isn't obvious, I believe that last post was a spoof answer, as well. StuRat 20:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I didnt think spoof replies were allowed!--Light current 18:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Pascal's waders can change legs with eyes closed. -- DLL ^{.. T} 22:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Gas barbeque (or braai)

I have just bought a gas braai - that is what we call it here in South Africa - also known as barbeque. It has a gas cylinder attached to a device that allows a controllable open flame - like a gas stove I guess. The grill where the food goes is about 10 cm above the open flame. Question: is it safe to sprinkle water on the meat to keep the meat moist while cooking? Is there any danger if water falls on the open gas flame? Any danger when fat from a sausage falls on the flame? It throws quite a flame up when it does. Any other safety considerations I need to watch for? Thanks Sandman30s 11:39, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Here is a link for safety. [4]. We, in North America, have been blowing ourselves up for decades with these things. Number one thing is lighting it. Don't let the gas build up, or light with the lid down. Lost a few eyebrow hairs that way.... --Zeizmic 13:19, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, watch out for Carbon Monoxide buildup, too. The velociraptor 14:19, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Gas "barbecues" often use a layer of volcanic rock or ceramic briquettes to allow the slow indirect cooking required for barbequeing. (It also helps keeps the grease and water out of the burner) Gas grills (for grilling) don't have these and are like a gas stove. Rmhermen 15:01, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm? Mine sure does. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:45, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

There are rocks in your grill? You got some funky cooker there. Philc _T^E_C^I 18:34, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Not at all! Look at our gas grill parts article, especially the section "Rock Grates". Or, for that matter, any website selling grills; Weber doesn't use ceramic or stone, but quite a few manufacturers do. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 18:59, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

There is absolutely no danger whatsoever in sprinkling water over your sausages. In fact it sounds like a most excellent idea. Pouring water, of course, would be highly inadvisable. -- Chris 17:02, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks people for all the tips. Still a little confused about my new grill. My old one had the volcanic rocks as described and I used to turn on the gas and light it manually. The new one has an open flame that lights with a simple click (spark?) of the switch after turning on the gas. The people I bought it from claim that most new gas braais are like this. The grilling article does not really state that there is a different type of foodstuff that should be braaied over an open flame as opposed to rocks or briquettes. I also have a gas cylinder device that lights around the rim and cooks food on a detachable enamelled iron surface, but this is certainly no grill. Kadak have been making these things for decades here as well. Now there is competition locally between Jetmaster and Kadak. Also concerned about where I should store it. Hear horror stories about them blowing up and burning houses down. Should also not store it in direct sunlight or rain. Seems an awfully dangerous thing to have around for what it does. Sandman30s 19:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Barbecue, grilling and Regional variations of barbecue discuss different usages of terms. Where I am from barbequing takes hours over low, indirect and smoky heat will grilling takes minutes over direct flame or high heat. Quite a different final result. And millions of LP tanks are simply stored outdoors - they are rarely a problem. (Unless you shoot at them or hit the valve with a hammer, sort of thing.) Keep it out of the weather and it will last longer. Rmhermen 20:21, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The danger is greater with young children. Always keep an eye on the bbq and one on the child. -- DLL ^{.. T} 22:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It's an open flame and a pressurized tank of flammable gas. Of course there are safety issues. But don't be overly worrisome: learn the basic safety techniques (Google BBQ SAFETY and you will quickly find them) and then enjoy some tremendous food! You can cook all the same foods over gas grills as you can over charcoal. Be sure to familiarize yourself with the difference between direct and indirect exposure to the heat - some foods are best cooked directly over the flame, while others are better suited to indirect heat (accomplished by placing the food away from the flame and closing the lid of the BBQ to let it build up heat). :I highly recommend Weber's Big Book of Grilling as a crash-course in BBQ with lots of spectacular recipes. dpotter 00:08, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

10:10 clock setting

Why are new clocks displayed in jewelry stores set to the time 10:10.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.29.79.146 (talk • contribs)

OK I have heard the answer to this but I was looking for the whole story. It is the time our last President was shot. Before Kennedy the clocks were set to the time Lincond was shot. Does anybody know the real story?

This has been asked before. The main reasons seem to be that (a) it is symmetrically pleasing to the eye and (b) it allows the name of the clockmaker to be clearly displayed. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

And what do you know, we have an article on it: 10:08. Mention of which enables me to ask a question of my own. Why are times of less than ten minutes past the hour always written with a leading zero, e.g. 10:08, 5:05. That zero serves no purpose. The number after the colon (or decimal point, sometimes) is just the number of minutes past the hour. So these times should be written 10:8, 5:5 and so on. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:44, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I can only think it is a typographical convention. I think railway timetables will be some of the oldest things to have had need to write lists of times. (Docuemnt before that, I hazard, would tend more to the "ten past two of the clock" text strings. It would be interesting to find some pre-1800 stage-coach timetables, though.) Reaching back to 1881, we see the convention observed by the Central Pacific Railroad, for instance. --Tagishsimon (talk)

When I was a kid I remember the Radio Times (which I studied religiously) used to write 5.5 for 5.05, but I've never seen it written that way anywhere else. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 14:24, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It's natural law, actually. ISO 8601, to be specific. —Bromskloss 16:03, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

My guess for the leading "0" is to avoid confusion. That way you know the printer hasn't dropped a digit in error, 10:3 could be 10:03 or 10:30. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 16:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It's also useful for aligning times in a table so hours, minutes, and seconds line up, and for sorting them electronically. Overall, the leading zero is a very good idea. StuRat 20:05, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

And as I've come to expect on Wikipedia these days, there is an article already at leading zero! -- Chuq 00:32, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

And btw, it has absolutely nothing to do with JFK or any other person. JFK was shot at 12:30 pm. JackofOz 23:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

peak district

how can I get to the Peak District from London is there a train ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.174.159.34 (talk • contribs)

Did you read Peak District#Transport? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 16:14, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

It rather depends exactly where in the Peak District you want to get to, but travelling by train from London, you would probably need to go either to Manchester or to Sheffield and then take the local Hope Valley Line which connects the two cities.--Shantavira 16:43, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Of course you could get to Buxton by changing trains at Stockport, rather than going all the way into Manchester. I'm not sure if the Manchester-Sheffield trains aren't also routed through Stockport. -- Arwel (talk) 22:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

yea there's nothing at all in the transport section about getting to the district from lonodn! thanks for the suggestions.

It may not be there in exactly the form you were looking for, but it states pretty clearly that Sheffield and Manchester are the nearest large towns, so it's not exactly a gigantic leap from there to working out that you would have to go to those places from London. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Although you don't have to book, this site may give you some ideas of duration and time os train journeys: http://www.gnertickets.co.uk/ -Stubblychin

frost wire not working

my frost wire is not working i log in and it never gets past starting connection. i have already tried your ideas on trying to work aroung the fire wall nothing has worked. please help not sure what to do?

If this is a computing question, you might fare better at the computing desk.--Shantavira 18:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Why are dogs traditionally walked to the owner's left

In almost all dog training books, and all dog training television programmes, the dog is walked to the left of the owner. Is there a technical reason for this? If not technical, is there some other viable reason?

So you can enforce short lead working with the right (stronger in most people) hand?--Light current 18:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

no original research please, light current.

No honestly, Ive seen it on TV (Dog Borstal) where you pull on a short lead to direct the dogs attention from something (like other dogs or toys or peoples legs) Anyway didnt you see the ? 8-)--Light current 23:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I saw another edition of 'Dog Borstal' tonite. Fascinating! Some owners walked their dogs on the right!--Light current 02:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

leadership /governance

I have heard a new term being used in regards to Board Governance (how Boards of Directors govern/lead agencies/corporations) the term is : Generative Governance. I am searching for authors/articles etc. to assist me in understanding this concept. Thank you for your assistance! Dianne --Dianne belliveau 21:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Bass

Who is the greatest and most influential electric bassist in rock music history?

• Well, some would say Carol Kaye; but more would say James Jamerson (unless you've got a limited definition for "rock".) --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 00:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This unsigned question is invalid. There is no objective standard by which the "greatest anything" may be named. (Largest, yes; greatest, no.) The best that can be done is to have folk name those who are, in their opinion, great and influential. Also, BTW, "great" and "influential" are by no means synonymous. B00P 00:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

There's no agreed-upon answer to that; many people have made contributions to the use of the bass guitar in rock, and trying to weigh them up is an impossibl task. See our electric bass article which mentions some bassists whose styles have been highly influential.

It also depends on how you phrase the question. Paul McCartney is an enormously influential artist, and an influential bassist, but his contribution to the art of the bass guitar is arguably secondary to his achievements as a songwriter and arranger (particularly in the collective efforts of he, the other Beatles, and George Martin). --Robert Merkel 00:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This question has no factual answer and therefore cannot be answered. I propose it is deleted along with the existing responses.--Light current 00:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Y'know, if you want to start deleting irrelevencies from the reference desk pages, you might discover that smartass remarks and snappy answers are high on the list of such irrelevencies. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

THat is one of the penalties of censorship, but at least is stops discussion going off on a tangent like this is now doing. 8-(--Light current 18:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)--Light current 18:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

And why is it a bad thing for discussions to go off on tangents here? Anyway, if the question were framed, "who are among the most influential bassists" then one could indeed state a factual answer; so let's assume questions of the form "who is the best/most influential/etc" of anything can usefully be answered and discussed as who could be considered candidates for such superlatives. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 04:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Les Claypool of Primus, is the undisputed king of bass, no one, no one plays as well, as fast and as technical as him, and he does it while singing! But the acctual quality of the song writing is rather limited, especially of the album Sailing on a sea of Cheese. Its not the kind of thing you would listen to, but if you wanna learn how to play bass VERY WELL, then he could probably give you a tip or two. but you would have to be exelent already. He really is the best!

I have been influenced by Tony Levin more than any other bassist in rock music history. dpotter 00:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, although this probably wouldn't help you, Nikki Sixx in my opinion is one of the best ever. Temp 16:06, 4 November 2006 (UTC)