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December 13

Three - colour problem

Holborn in Central London is the equivalent of mid-town New York. Originally a metropolitan borough, it was subsumed into the London Borough of Camden in 1965. The City of London, London Borough of Camden and City of Westminster meet at a point which appears to be in Cursitor Street, east of Chancery Lane. However, on the other side of Chancery Lane, the middle of three adjoining buildings has a City of Westminster street sign and the ones either side have Camden street signs. Isn't this geographically impossible? 95.145.0.90 (talk) 16:57, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps there's an enclave or exclave ... Nimur (talk) 18:17, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Google Maps has the corner of the three boroughs at the corner of Carey Street and Chancery Lane. Google Street view largely confirms this by the street signs. Street signs on the south side of Carey Street are Westminster, street signs on the north side of Carey Street are Camden. Street signs north on Chancery are Camden on the West and London on the East. Street Signs south on Chancery are Westminster on the West and London on the East. Cursitor Street appears to be entirely within the City of London according to Google Maps. Google Street View shows City of London street signs on both sides. --Jayron 32 18:28, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A 2004 street atlas does indeed run a boundary along the length of Chancery Lane, with another boundary projecting west along Carey Street. Another atlas dated 2002 and earlier ones show a salient of Westminster east of Chancery Lane, and the Camden/City boundary is further east as well. That means (according to Kelly's Post Office London Directory 1976) in Cursitor Street the City has gained nos. 1-11 from Camden and nos. 27-39 from Westminster, which has also lost nos. 8-25 on the north side of Bream's Buildings and nos. 2-14 on the south side and Rolls Buildings also. On the same side of Chancery Lane Camden has lost Southampton Buildings, Staple Inn Buildings and 11-21 Tooks Court. On the west side of Chancery Lane it has gained Star Yard, Bishop's Court and Chichester Rents from Westminster. In Chancery Lane itself, where the numbers run to 70/72 north along the east side and from 74 to 126 south along the west side nos. 1-7 and 113-126 were in the City, nos. 22-38, 76A (part) and 77-112 were in Westminster and nos. 40-70 and 70A (part) were in Camden. I was aware that the City had expanded in the east following the redevelopment of Broad Street Station and also in the north, but I didn't know that it had gained chunks of Camden and Westminster earlier. Prior to that, its boundaries had been unchanged from mediaeval times. 80.44.95.49 (talk) 11:29, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There are a number of images showing a Westminster "Chancery Lane" sign and a Camden "Chancery Lane" sign three doors to the north to the right of a blue plaque (e.g. "83B400"). Then image "81 Chancery Ln" for example shows the third sign, a Camden sign south of these two. Some London street signs are very old - for example, some date back to before the numbered postal districts were introduced in 1917. What I think has happened is that the Westminster sign was put up before the boundary change and Camden hasn't bothered to replace it. Thanks to everyone who contributed.

May I point out here an apparent error in our article City of Westminster? The "History" section says "The present-day City of Westminster as an administrative entity with its present boundaries dates from 1965", but it later contradicts itself with the statement "The boundaries of the City of Westminster today, as well as those of the other London boroughs, have remained more or less unchanged since the Act of 1963." The fact that the ward boundaries in both boroughs were changed in 2002 suggests that the westward extension of the City of London happened on 1 April that year. The date of the other extensions - 1 April 1994 - is mentioned in our articles City of London and St Mary Moorfields. 79.76.37.164 (talk) 15:01, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]