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December 28

Decadência

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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

In an advertisement for its new ship Queen Anne in the i on 18 November the Cunard Line says that two years and one day later she will be visiting

"Lisbon, Portugal

"Among its rooftops, Gothic towers and decadent domes burst from a sea of red-tiled buildings, while at ground level you'll see elegant shops, graceful palacios and ancient ruins."

Why are the domes described as "decadent"? 78.146.96.174 (talk) 17:27, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In this context, I guess it's supposed to be read as lavish and ostentatious... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 17:35, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As the WP editor Hoary pointed out here some time ago, the notion of decadence is often invoked "with little or no meaning"; see Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 May 11#Definition of decadent. Deor (talk) 17:47, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Somewhat like some who say "infamous" to mean "very well known" in a good way, as opposed to in a bad way. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:20, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite, I think. There is a logical thread you can follow to get to this use of "decadent". I think the idea is that a well-structured society is supposed to involve asceticism and personal moral rigor and self-restraint. When these societies decay, you see the rise of indulgence and opulence. Then those who approve of indulgence and opulence, at least in a particular context, re-appropriate the term to praise them.

You don't have to buy the underlying theory that ascetic societies are the best ones, but given that that theory exists, you can't really say that the usage is illogical. --Trovatore (talk) 19:34, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That term "decadent" is often used in reference to very rich foods, especially desserts. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:21, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wiktionary gives two senses for decadent:

Characterized by moral or cultural decline.
Luxuriously self-indulgent.

For the second sense, the colloquial synonym sinful is given. --Lambiam 20:01, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Luxury" seems like an apt word to compare; it's cognate with Italian lussuria, one of the seven deadly sins. Wiktionary doesn't seem to take note of this sense surviving in English, but I bet it does. Someone who knows Wiktionary procedures better should probably update this. --Trovatore (talk) 20:32, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So done. --Lambiam 18:34, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For luxuria in the context of the seven deadly sins, the usual English word is lust. Not an entirely satisfactory equivalent, perhaps, but the Latin word does have a connotation of specifically sexual excess. I don't think luxury is used in this sense these days. Deor (talk) 21:32, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Decadent might be a description of Rococo architecture in Portugal (though many of the Rococo buildings in the Lisbon area were destroyed in the 1755 earthquake)... AnonMoos (talk) 05:29, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]