Language desk
< September 12	<< Aug \| September \| Oct >>	September 14 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

September 13

Does U ever come before V in a word that is not a derivative of Latin juvenis??

Juvenis is the Latin word for young. English words derived from it commonly contain uv. But otherwise we always write ov and never uv. Why?? Georgia guy (talk) 00:33, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I found the word mauve. It's a word that came into English directly from French (not via Middle English.) But I still want to know why the uv combination is normally not found in traditional English words. Georgia guy (talk) 01:04, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Uvula comes immediately to mind. --Orange Mike | Talk 01:33, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Many words of Latin origin have uv, but in native English words we write ov and never uv. Any reason?? Georgia guy (talk) 01:42, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This handy tool gave me 1000 results for words containing the sequence -uv-. Apart from the juven-related words, there are also fluv-, alluv-, Peruvian, and many others. The vast majority seem to be either abbreviations (eg. luv, guv, etc) or ultimately derived from foreign words, but there may be a few true counter-examples. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 02:01, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The sequence "uv" (with native short /u/, then pronounced as a foot-vowel ) came to be spelled as "ov" in Middle English to enhance readability in medieval handwriting style, cf. Minim (palaeography). This affected um, un as well, but most thoroughly uv. –Austronesier (talk) 07:50, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also, before the 17th century, "U" and "V" were the same letter, so a "uv" spelling could actually involve a confusing doubled letter. The ultimate modern English "uv"-spelled word is "luvvy" or "luvvie", a British term for an insincere showbiz type...

-- AnonMoos (talk) 14:54, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is it known how Middle English luve was pronounced? Did the spelling change induce a change in pronunciation? Or was the spelling change (also?) prompted by a pronunciation change? Middle English phonology#Open-syllable lengthening mentions the change /u/ > /oː/. --Lambiam 18:09, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Allied rock-wallaby

I want to write an entry in my language about this wallaby, But I do not understand why he is called Allied And also what does Allied mean here? please help me. -- 17:54, 13 September 2020 37.142.54.57

A quick look at Google hasn't found me an answer, but I suspect that "allied" here means "closely related to" the other very similar wallabies mentioned in the article. Alansplodge (talk) 18:25, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The species' scientific name is Petrogale assimilis, and "allied" is clearly just an English translation of assimilis. I don't know the reason that this Latin word was used as the specific name, but Alansplodge's suggestion sounds plausible. Deor (talk) 19:12, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. In my language this name does not sound good. I know, that the full meaning of the scientific name is "an animal resembling a rock weasel." I will try to think of a solution. There is also a species of bird called that (can not find it at the moment)

(ec) – Several species have the specific epithet assimilis, which in Latin simply means "similar". I suppose it is the counterpart of "allied" in English. The term "alliance" has a specific, although loose, meaning in taxonomy, where allied basically means "(taxonomically) related". Just look at the uses of "allied species" in these book titles: Descriptor List for Plum and Allied Species; Taxonomy and Phylogeny of the 'manna Lichens' and Allied Species (Megasporaceae); The Black spotted, Yellow Borer, Conogethes punctiferalis Guenée and Allied Species. If you need to coin a vernacular common name as a calque of the English common name, you may have to consult a taxonomist who speaks your language. Does בעלי ברית sound totally weird? Perhaps not much weirder than "allied" does in English (to non-taxonomists). --Lambiam 19:31, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

it sounds bad in both options; In fact, it is impossible in terms of syntax, grammar and meaning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:ED0:6D17:3E00:D525:979B:E959:2AAC (talk) 19:42, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Look at what the lead of the article Allied rock-wallaby states: "The allied rock-wallaby ... is very similar to six other species of rock-wallaby found in this area". So I guess the name is the point where the namegiver gave up: yet another one of these *** look-alikes. The similarity is not to "rock weasels"; our P. assimilis is a rock weasel, so taken very literally the binomial name means "[a] similar rock weasel". --Lambiam 19:48, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'll try to look for the bird that is also called that, maybe it will help us. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:ED0:6D17:3E00:D525:979B:E959:2AAC (talk) 19:55, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting fact: At the time this wallaby was scientifically described, there was only one other species besides it (In a group of gray wallabies): Unadorned rock-wallaby. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:ED0:6D17:3E00:D525:979B:E959:2AAC (talk) 19:59, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I found the bird: Savanna nightjar (Caprimulgus affinis) Also known as Allied nightjar; Anyone know what the scientific name "affinis" means? Maybe this will help me find more meaning for the word "Allied" In my language. 5.102.238.57 (talk) 20:44, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Affinis" is like "affinity". Another way of saying linked to or similar to.--Khajidha (talk) 22:17, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

: Perhaps it would look to help at how other languages name the animal? Russian, for example, calls it the ‘Queensland rock wallaby’, which could be a good solution. For more, see left sidebar on desktop view under ‘Languages’. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 02:00, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

On second thought, that is bad advice. Original research is not allowed on wikipedia, so if you cannot find a source in your own language that names this animal, the only option left is to use the scientific name untranslated. To give it a name yourself would be an original conclusion, and therefore disallowed. Apologies. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 02:08, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I know. That's what I'll probably do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.142.54.57 (talk) 06:17, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]