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February 3

Question about the Spanish language

So the article Ollagüe contains the following text in a footnote: The ll in classical Spanish corresponds to the sound [ʎ] which matches the Aymara pronunciation (though today most Spanish speakers pronounce it [ʝ] or [ʒ]).^[1] The g in the name was inserted because using an intervocalic [w] consonant is foreign to classical Spanish^[2] and the closest approximation is [ɣw] (gü). The rendering of the vowels as o and e rather than u and i derives from the fact that Andean languages (including Aymara) generally do not distinguish between the vowel sounds [o] and [u], as well as [e] and [i], so the precise sounds can vary by speaker.^[3]^[4] Is there any person familiar with Spanish who can comment on the accuracy of this paragraph? I am wondering because it seems to me like most of the claims aren't actually supported by the source. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 20:34, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: Most of the quote seems accurate to me. It may not be in a full agreement with the sources - I'll let others check that. Mr KEBAB (talk) 20:47, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What's "classical Spanish"? – There are plenty of New World words with intervocalic /w/, written hu, as in ayahuasca. —Tamfang (talk) 02:32, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Classical Spanish is another name for Early Modern Spanish, 15th–17th century. —Stephen (talk) 14:55, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Basil Fawlty: “I speak classical Spanish, not that barbarous variety he [Manuel] seems to have picked up.” Amazing that I did not think of this at the time. —Tamfang (talk) 21:43, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The note is accurate. I am fluent in Spanish and have studied Quechua, normally considered a congener of Aymara, and typologically similar in the relevant phonetic comments here. (See Anatole Lyovins' An Introduction to the Languages of the World for a sketch of Quechua.) The note itself seems like uberkill for an article about a volcano. But I'm an inclusionist. μηδείς (talk) 00:30, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ya, I was thinking this as well which is why I moved it to a note. My concern was more that the sources don't appear to support the content and thus leave the note unsourced. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:01, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Medeis: Do you know of additional sources that might support the note? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 13:14, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the description of Spanish is accurate and easily verifiable. I have read about Aymara in the context of Quechua and Quechaymaran which is treated variously as a family, a dialect continuum, or as a contact situation. The Aymaran language is both poorly studied and has fewer than 800 speakers. Unfortunately I do not have any sources on Aymara easily accessible. You should definitely read the Spanish article https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idioma_aimara on Aymara, which accords exactly with what is noted above. μηδείς (talk) 03:52, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Coloma, German (2011). "Valoración socioeconómica de los rasgos fonéticos dialectales de la lengua española". Lexis. 35 (1): 103.
^ Torck, Danièle; Wetzels, W. Leo, eds. (2006). Romance Languages and Linguistic Theory 2006. John Benjamins. p. 113. ISBN 9789027248190.
^ Coler, Matt (2014). A Grammar of Muylaq' Aymara: Aymara as spoken in Southern Peru. p. 43. ISBN 9789004284005.
^ Cobo, Father Bernabe (1979). History of the Inca Empire: An Account of the Indians' Customs and Their Origin, Together with a Treatise on Inca Legends, History, and Social Institutions. University of Texas Press. p. 21. ISBN 9780292789807.

[1] Coloma, German (2011). "Valoración socioeconómica de los rasgos fonéticos dialectales de la lengua española". Lexis. 35 (1): 103.

[2] Torck, Danièle; Wetzels, W. Leo, eds. (2006). Romance Languages and Linguistic Theory 2006. John Benjamins. p. 113. ISBN 9789027248190.

[3] Coler, Matt (2014). A Grammar of Muylaq' Aymara: Aymara as spoken in Southern Peru. p. 43. ISBN 9789004284005.

[4] Cobo, Father Bernabe (1979). History of the Inca Empire: An Account of the Indians' Customs and Their Origin, Together with a Treatise on Inca Legends, History, and Social Institutions. University of Texas Press. p. 21. ISBN 9780292789807.

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