Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2017 October 17
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October 17
[edit]How come la caballera doesn't exist as a noun?
[edit]I can't find it in my dictionary. There is el caballero, which means the gentleman or knight. That makes sense, as knights really did ride on horses. But there is no la caballera. I know la doña means "lady", but it's not la caballera. 140.254.70.33 (talk) 13:13, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
- Because it doesn't? Language is never a complete or consistent system, and the sort of symmetry you seek is not universal. You will never find a natural language which is rigidly consistent, and there are lots of things languages do like that. --Jayron32 13:58, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
- Put it another way. If I say "la caballera" to a native Spanish speaker, then would they still understand me? Or will they think I'm referring to la doña? I know languages aren't consistent, but humans are flexible. Just like in English, ketchup and tomato sauce are two different things. But if a non-native speaker says, "hamburger tomato sauce", the native speaker may still get a hint at what the person is saying, even though the terminology is wrong. 140.254.70.33 (talk) 14:04, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
- Probably. They'd find it marked, but they would understand what you were going for. If I told you my mother was a doctress, you'd find it weird, but you'd probably work out that I meant female doctor. That's because grammatical gender rules in languages such as spanish is productive. That means you can apply known rules to create new words, and those new words will be understood, but will not necessarily be recognized as standard or comfortable. --Jayron32 14:11, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
- On pt:wp cavalheiro redirects to "gentleman". Cavalheira is nothing more than a suburb of the Brazilian municipality of Cachoeira do Sul in the state of Rio Grande do Sul. Cavaleiro is from the Latin caballus, a gelding or dray, and now is a rank between baronet and esquire. The feminine is dama. Cavaleira redirects to an article on technical drawing. The answer to your question is probably that women do not fight on horseback. 92.27.49.50 (talk) 14:39, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
- So, what word should one use to describe a woman fighter on horseback? Caballera or something else? 140.254.70.33 (talk) 17:17, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
- To give an example from another Romance language (now that we've also mentioned Portuguese), in French you could theoretically feminize "chevalier" as "chevalière", but a chevalière is actually a signet ring. A female knight (such as a recipient of the Legion of Honour) is a "femme chevalier". Adam Bishop (talk) 01:44, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- So, what word should one use to describe a woman fighter on horseback? Caballera or something else? 140.254.70.33 (talk) 17:17, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
- On pt:wp cavalheiro redirects to "gentleman". Cavalheira is nothing more than a suburb of the Brazilian municipality of Cachoeira do Sul in the state of Rio Grande do Sul. Cavaleiro is from the Latin caballus, a gelding or dray, and now is a rank between baronet and esquire. The feminine is dama. Cavaleira redirects to an article on technical drawing. The answer to your question is probably that women do not fight on horseback. 92.27.49.50 (talk) 14:39, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
- Probably. They'd find it marked, but they would understand what you were going for. If I told you my mother was a doctress, you'd find it weird, but you'd probably work out that I meant female doctor. That's because grammatical gender rules in languages such as spanish is productive. That means you can apply known rules to create new words, and those new words will be understood, but will not necessarily be recognized as standard or comfortable. --Jayron32 14:11, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
- Put it another way. If I say "la caballera" to a native Spanish speaker, then would they still understand me? Or will they think I'm referring to la doña? I know languages aren't consistent, but humans are flexible. Just like in English, ketchup and tomato sauce are two different things. But if a non-native speaker says, "hamburger tomato sauce", the native speaker may still get a hint at what the person is saying, even though the terminology is wrong. 140.254.70.33 (talk) 14:04, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
- The Real Academia website[1] lists both caballero and caballera. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:40, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
- But if you actually read the results it shows that "caballera" is only ever a feminine adjective, not a noun meaning a female knight. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:44, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- The feminine counterpart of a caballero is a dama. If you mean the feminine counterpart of a horseman, that would be la jinete. Jinete can be masculine or feminine. A woman fighter on horseback is una luchadora a caballo. —Stephen (talk) 06:33, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- But if you actually read the results it shows that "caballera" is only ever a feminine adjective, not a noun meaning a female knight. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:44, 18 October 2017 (UTC)