Language desk
< September 14	<< Aug \| September \| Oct >>	Current desk >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

September 15

Why Mount Sinai, Mount Everest, and not Sinai Mount?

Why Mount Sinai, Mount Everest, and not Sinai Mount, ...?--Llaanngg (talk) 09:53, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Mt. Ararat, Mt. McKinley/Denali, Mt. Fuji, Mt. Olive, Mt. St. Helens, etc. etc. But then there's Sugar Loaf Mountain, Grandfather Mountain, etc. I think you'll find that "Mount" usually precedes the name, and "Mountain" usually follows it (or a range). But English has many peculiarities and exceptions. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:19, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think the usual English rule applies. When in doubt, blame the French. Mont Blanc, etc. Rmhermen (talk) 16:48, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not always: we have Mont Saint-Michel but St Michael's Mount. Dbfirs 20:34, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And rather more modestly, Chingford Mount in London. Alansplodge (talk) 21:21, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

An obvious one is Temple Mount. I have this feeling that there's also an example in Known Space, but I'm not coming up with it. --Trovatore (talk) 21:24, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Mount Lookitthat? Wymspen (talk) 07:45, 16 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There's also the River Thames, and Lake Windermere. And the River Nile and Lake Baikal. (I think the Colonials have a different convention.) --ColinFine (talk) 22:22, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pedantry alert, but it's just Windermere, not Lake Windermere. Mere already means lake. In the Lake District, only Bassenthwaite Lake officially has Lake as part of its name. Fgf10 (talk) 08:45, 16 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Antipedantry alert: what is this "officially" of which you speak? "Lake Windermere" has a small but definite incidence in ngrams since before 1850. --ColinFine (talk) 09:41, 16 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See the link in my post. Just because people use it, doesn't mean it's right. Many common mistakes have ngrams. Fgf10 (talk) 09:49, 16 September 2016 (UTC) [reply]

Could also be the name of a different lake. That is, the Windermere in the UK could be different from a "Lake Windermere" located somewhere else. Like British Columbia. --Jayron 32 13:37, 16 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Redundancies happen. I've often heard the big stream bordering Texas referred to as the "Rio Grande River". The Big River River. RAS syndrome. And when it comes to lakes, just in the Minneapolis area there are Lake Harriet, Long Lake, Lake of the Isles, Cedar Lake, Lake Minnetonka and Medicine Lake, to name a few. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:41, 16 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And of course there are The The Angels Angels. Matt Deres (talk) 16:00, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think "Los Angeles Angels" is really parallel — "Los Angeles" is the name of the city, so "Angeles" is on the right side of the use–mention distinction, roughly speaking. The hilarious thing is that the full name is "The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim", and the story that explains how that name came to be. --Trovatore (talk) 05:38, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The current team began in 1961 as the Los Angeles Angels. They were named for their minor-league predecessor, which dated back to the early 1900s. LA is often called "the city of angels", which is actually part of the city's very long original name: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río de Porciúncula, which translates to "The Town of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels of the Porciúncula River". You're right that "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim" is pretty silly. Following that logic, the Rams should rename themselves the Cleveland Rams of Los Angeles, Anaheim, St. Louis, Los Angeles, and [eventually] Inglewood. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:40, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

They got Anaheim taxpayers to chip in for a new stadium, agreeing to keep the word "Anaheim" as part of their name. When they decided it would be better for business reasons to be called "Los Angeles", they technically kept their word.

I'm an Angeleno but — go Giants! --Trovatore (talk) 07:53, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And the Philly Phillies. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:26, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I root for the Phillies and the Yankees, and have never, ever heard anyone say the "Philly Phillies", only the Philadelphia Phillies. μηδείς (talk) 18:51, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Just making fun of the fact that "Phillies" is the plural of "Philly" (or "Phillie"), which is a nickname for "Philadelphia" - hence the team name. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:31, 18 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Philly" is the normal contemporary spelling of the nickname, but there is the Phily Diner on route 168 in NJ. It's highly recommend, large, quality portions and strong cocktails. Plus they serve snapper soup. μηδείς (talk) 21:33, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

One nice thing about turtle soup is that it comes with its own natural bowl. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:11, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]