Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 December 29
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December 29
[edit]Chanukah? Challah?
[edit]Why are Hebrew-derived English terms pronounced without the 'ch'? Obviously, it's a different language, but still why do the English names have the 'ch'? Why can't the English terms be hallah or hanukah to reflect the accurate pronunciation? 66.213.29.17 (talk) 20:55, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- When I go to google and type in "han", the first word it suggests is "Hanukkah". Google is your friend. μηδείς (talk) 21:24, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- It's a case of the Hebrew words being transliterated different in different varieties of English. British English prefers "ch", perhaps thinking of the Scottish (e.g. loch); American English prefers "h". Carbon Caryatid (talk) 22:48, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- See Hanukkah#Alternative_spellings for the full story. Also, English spelling sometimes doesn't really concern itself with how the letters sound, look at "knee" for example. Alansplodge (talk) 22:56, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- Words starting with kn used to be pronounced as spelled. The leading k's went silent by 1750. [1] ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:14, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
- See Hanukkah#Alternative_spellings for the full story. Also, English spelling sometimes doesn't really concern itself with how the letters sound, look at "knee" for example. Alansplodge (talk) 22:56, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- It's a case of the Hebrew words being transliterated different in different varieties of English. British English prefers "ch", perhaps thinking of the Scottish (e.g. loch); American English prefers "h". Carbon Caryatid (talk) 22:48, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- I don't quite know what you mean by "to reflect the accurate pronunciation". The Hebrew letter ח (cheth) has a sound which does not occur in most dialects of English except for non-English words. It is a different sound from that of ה (he), and a careful transliteration needs to recognise that; hence the common used of 'kh' or 'ch'. for the sound. --ColinFine (talk) 23:14, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
- Gutturals like the Spanish j and the Hebrew letter are often equated to the trailing "ch" in Scottish words such as "loch". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:16, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
- I don't quite know what you mean by "to reflect the accurate pronunciation". The Hebrew letter ח (cheth) has a sound which does not occur in most dialects of English except for non-English words. It is a different sound from that of ה (he), and a careful transliteration needs to recognise that; hence the common used of 'kh' or 'ch'. for the sound. --ColinFine (talk) 23:14, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
What they said. And anyone saying "hallah or hanukah" is mis-pronouncing the words. Which is quite understandable. And understandable, if you understand what I'm saying. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 17:05, 4 January 2017 (UTC)