Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 August 3

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August 3

Translation from Yiddish

I would be grateful if a user could please translate the following from Yiddish to either Hebrew or English.

הקבצו איהר זאלט זיך צו זאמען נעמען אין איין קערפערשאפט, איר זייט פילע חברה שס'ן ווערט אלע איין חברה, איר קענט איין לערנען ערער חברה אין איר בית המדרש, אבער לערנט אלע די זעלבע  מסכת, די זעלבע בלאט אלע גלייך א התחלה. אלע גלייך א סיום, איר קענט מאכען א התחלה חול המועד סוכות מוצאי שנת השמיטה, און דענסמאל אין 7 יאהר ארום דעם סיום, ווי די תורה זאנט "מקץ שבע שנים....", אויף די צייט וועלען אללע חברה שס'ן איין שטימען און  צופרידען זיין דאן אוואו צווייא וועלען צוזאמען קומען וועלען זיי זיך קענען צוזאמען ריידען אין לערנן און זיין בעפריינדעט מיט איין נייסט מיט איין הארץ דאם זעלבע אלע חברה משניות'ן און דאס גלייכען  

Thank you Simonschaim (talk) 09:55, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Just for fun, did you try Google Translate? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:50, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Just for fun, I tried Google Translate, and it mostly produces nonsense, which can be because the source text has no niqqud. It also contains passages in Hebrew, which get corrupted particularly badly; e.g. "חול המועד סוכות מוצאי שנת השמיטה" becomes "sand date Sukkot night of hshmith", whereas when translating the same from Hebrew, the results make much more sense ("Sukkot End of the Sabbatical year"). --217.140.96.140 (talk) 20:19, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't have the time to provide a full translation now (I might later if no one beats me to it), but the gist of it is (in somewhat flowery language) a proposal that the many Talmud-study groups called Chevra Shas synchronize their study to the same page of the same tractate and study at the same pace of one sheet a day—i.e. the concept known as Daf Yomi. (Google Translate is terrible for Yiddish, probably for lack of computer-friendly corpus texts.) הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 17:32, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

(Punctuation rationalized.)

"Assemble yourselves!" Gather yourselves together into one company; you are many Hevra Shas groups—be all one Hevra [group]! You can continue your studying [with] your Hevra in your synagogue, but study the same tractate, the same sheet, beginning [the Talmud] all together, [making a] siyum [i.e. finishing] all together. You can begin on Hol HaMoed of Sukkot of the year after the Sabbatical year, and then, in seven years, the siyum, as the Torah says "at the end of every seven years...". At that time all the Hevra Shas groups will coincide [?] and be content. Thus, wherever two [Talmud students] will meet, they will be able to converse in [Talmud] study and befriend [?] each other, with one spirit, with one heart, the same as all Hevra Mishnayot [Mishnah study groups] and the like.

References

Simonschaim: Out of curiosity, where is the provenance of this quote? הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 00:50, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you Hasirpad for the translation for which I am very grateful. The provenance of this quote is on page 8 of the book פורחת הגפן - יום יזרעאל written by הרב יחזקאל פרייזר איש מאריאמפאל and it was published in New York in Kislev 5670. The book is a relatively thin book partly in Hebrew and partly in Yiddish. The print is not too clear and on further observation it is almost certainly גייסט and not נייסט. There is a photocopy of this book in the ספריה לאומית in Jerusalem. Simonschaim (talk) 09:45, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Mending problems

I have usually come across the relatively common phrase: "fix the problem". Would "mending the problem" be unacceptable or just odd? Is there any difference between "fixing a car" and "mending a car"? --Pxos (talk) 13:42, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

I haven't heard "mend" used too much in American English other than when talking about sewing. I have heard it in British television and movies from time to time though. Maybe it would help if you specified at least the country you're in. †Dismas†|^(talk) 14:43, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

To my British ears, mending relates to something material. So I would happily talk about mending a car, or clothes, or the washing machine. The sense is of Repairing something broken, damaged or non-operational. It doesn't seem right when tied to something immaterial - so I would talk about solving a problem , or fixing a problem - though fixing does sound a bit more American. Wymspen (talk) 14:59, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

(Also En-Br) You can mend relationships, and your ways, among other things.[1] Problems are, as you say, fixed or addressed or solved, not mended. On the original question: I'd fix things which are general (like a bike) by mending the specific failing component (like the gear selector). Bazza (talk) 15:12, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

To mend is to repair or "put right".[2] "Mend" is used a great deal in American English, but for some reason it doesn't seem to be used in reference to cars, though there's no particular reason it couldn't be. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:37, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm surprised to hear you say that "mend" is used a great deal in American English. To my (American) ears, most expressions using "mend" in a physical sense sound quite British. I rarely hear Americans use the word, except in a few set expressions like "on the mend" and "mend your ways". However the Corpus of Global Web-Based English shows the word is used 2.4 times per million words in GB vs. 1.7 per million in the US [3], which is not as big a difference as I would have expected. CodeTalker (talk) 17:47, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Mending clothes, fences, relationships, for example. Mending your ways. And "on the mend". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:15, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I mentioned "on the mend" and "mend your ways" in the paragraph you're responding to, and which I assume you read. These are metaphorical, not referring to any physical act of repairing. "Mending fences" is similar -- it normally wouldn't be used when you're talking about repairing an actual physical fence. I think mending clothes is the only common use in American English that refers to a physical act of repairing something. A quick scan of the first 100 American English entries in GLOWBE shows only one counterexamples, "mend rails" in reference to welding. Most of the others are metaphorical "mend ways", "mend friendship", "mend a broken heart", "on the mend", etc. Many seem to be song lyrics. More directly responding the OP, "mend * problem" occurs only 4 times in the GLOWBE corpus (1.9 billion words), once each in the US, Great Britain, Pakistan and Tanzania. So it would appear to be rare. CodeTalker (talk) 20:35, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I was affirming what you said. And while some of the uses are metaphorical, you hear them, to the point of becoming clichés, actually. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:53, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Indeed, which is why "mending a car" doesn't sound right - the word has almost become a fossil word in North American English; you can't just use the word "mend" interchangeably with "repair" or "fix". Matt Deres (talk) 14:26, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Who came up with the phrase If it ain't broke, don't fix it.?

Supposedly popularized by Bert Lance. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:33, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes. In Britain you are more likely to mend the puncture of your bicycle tyre but repair the puncture of your car tyre. The bigger the job the more likely it is to be a repair job, rather than a mending job (e.g. mend the mobile phone, repair the television.) 80.44.167.110 (talk) 15:43, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

At this point I am reminded of E.M. Forster's story "The Machine Stops", in which the collapse of the world's over-mechanized civilization is caused by the failure of "the Mending Apparatus". Maybe they needed to provide a Repair Apparatus as well. --69.159.9.219 (talk) 18:35, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

What if there is a mathematical problem presented at high school students and no one can come up with the right answer. Afterwards the teacher realizes that the original problem is too difficult and requires university level skills. He then makes some subtle changes to the problem so that it might be solved by the 9th graders. Has the teacher mended the problem? (The country where I am now is Finland. Bummer.) --Pxos (talk) 19:41, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

No, it would be more likely to be said that he resolved the situation by amending the question. Akld guy (talk) 20:04, 3 August 2016 (UTC)